The "Working from Home" line

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I had no idea that there were places that wouldn't allow you sick time to take care of sick kids. That probably makes it hard to plan vacations since you would need a good bank of days stored up in case your child got the flu or something.

Actually I think the times where it's hardest to plan vacation is when you don't have any sick time at all but rather PTO.

When I was at the insurance company it was straight up PTO. It was a don't ask don't tell type thing. Now I was hourly and so I could ask off in 15min increments but planning a vacation was a very risky thing. You had to bank that you weren't going to actually need it for something more emergent say you're sick (or someone else was sick) or your car broke down or the weather was bad and so you couldn't get into work or you needed to do appointments, etc.

 

[scrapquitler]

So I found out today at the office that there are certain people, not in my department, that work from home every Friday. I also heard that a few of them pretty much treat as if they have a 4 day work week. I was talking to one of the persons and they told me that "work from home" means two things

1) be available to field phone calls and emails
2) get your work done and don't miss deadlines

Some of them even use it as a long weekend and work from the passenger seat on a Friday while they travel to their vacation destination.

I'm actually not upset about this more than I am jealous. Anyone else have the same office policy or do you think this is just abuse?

My husband's employer got rid of their office in our area and now all employees work remotely all the time.

The employer doesn't care when you get your work done, as long as it gets done, and you need to be available for calls with clients and the team at scheduled times. They don't care where anyone lives or where they work.

Some people seem to think that 'work at home' means working the minimal amount to get by and relaxing the rest of the time. The reality is that it doesn't work that way. My husband works way more hours than normal, and there are many times when he's sitting in his office on a call while we are eating dinner in the dining room, or he has to get up at like 4AM for an international conference call with a client. It's not all puppy dogs and rainbows.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

My company doesn't generally have a "Work From Home" policy where people plan to stay home on a regular basis. It's more used as a "try to get some work done when you can't come to the office." So for instance my kid is sick and I gotta stay home with her all day. Or I have an illness so won't come in due to being contagious, but I don't feel so terrible that I can't work from the house. Often when kids are sick you spend most of the day cuddling on the couch with them because they don't feel up to much else. That makes it easy to work on emails on the laptop next to her on the couch.

BUT, when I've worked from home in these situations I've never been able to get in a full 8 hours. I usually end up putting maybe 4 hours on my timesheet if I'm home with my child, maybe as much as 6 if I'm home alone without the kiddo and really able to focus on getting work done. I do end up doing laundry or cleaning or just taking a break and watching TV. But I reflect that honestly on my timesheet.

Basically it's a way to reduce the amount of sick leave (if I'm sick) or annual leave (if my kid is sick) that I have to use, and helps me not be quite as behind when I get back. This is something I think nearly all of us who have "office jobs" at my company have done.

We had that flexibility before we went full-remote, and it's not the same mindset at all. When you "call in" but still work from home that day with the expectation you will be able to check in if there are things that need your attention, it is also the expectation that it will be a light/abbreviated day.

When you are full-time remote, the attitude shifts from a "once in a while, I can make it work for a day here and there" deal to a "This is my life now, and if I worked 45-50 hours a week before IN my office, I will STILL be doing it now, just from a desk chair at home".

At least that is what happened to me when I went full-remote about 18 months ago.

 

[BadPinkTink]

Some people seem to think that 'work at home' means working the minimal amount to get by and relaxing the rest of the time. The reality is that it doesn't work that way. My husband works way more hours than normal, and there are many times when he's sitting in his office on a call while we are eating dinner in the dining room, or he has to get up at like 4AM for an international conference call with a client. It's not all puppy dogs and rainbows.

THIS , it really annoys me when people think working from home means you can laze about and not do your job.

It seems to be a generation gap. This is working in the modern world, where people are online, and in constant contact without having being tied to a specific location or even timezone.

Working from home means that people in London and people in LA can work on the same project in real time.

The traditional 9 to 5 office in a city centre location is just not realistic any more. High office rents and overheads, long commutes, low quality of life are many reasons why companies will switch to remote working.

Companies are realising that employees are more productive and have better quality work when they have a better quality of life.

And you know what, so what if I stay in bed all day, and work in my PJs. My brain is more alert and Im more productive that way then spending 90 minutes commuting to an office and then having to start my working day!

 

[Lilacs4Me]

Actually I think the times where it's hardest to plan vacation is when you don't have any sick time at all but rather PTO.

When I was at the insurance company it was straight up PTO. It was a don't ask don't tell type thing. Now I was hourly and so I could ask off in 15min increments but planning a vacation was a very risky thing. You had to bank that you weren't going to actually need it for something more emergent say you're sick (or someone else was sick) or your car broke down or the weather was bad and so you couldn't get into work or you needed to do appointments, etc.

And even harder than that, believe it or not, is having UNLIMITED sick days while being a remote employee. I don't think I've taken a true "sick day" in many, many years. We are pretty much expected to just get the job done no matter what. If we go out sick, our work is picked up by our backups, which by the time you get them up to speed, you may as well have just done it yourself (kind of like a teacher prepping for a sub!)

I had the flu last year - it started on a Wed afternoon. I only go into an office on Wednesdays for team meetings, and by the end of the day I felt like I was getting sick. By Friday evening I went to the minute-clinic, where I swabbed positive for the flu. The nurse gave me tamiflu. I slept all day Sat and Sunday, and by Monday, I just worked like normal, except I would rest in my desk chair with my eyes closed throughout the day since I was at home and nobody could see me. I don't think I even told my boss I had battled the flu in between the 7 days that I had last seen her!

 

[lifesavacation]

They just closed my husband's office, so he is working from home. His job is basically 24 hrs because one of the offices he deals with is on the other side of the world. He is notorious for answering emails at 12:30 am. Sometimes he will sleep in until 9 am, but he is usually working 8:30 am-6 pm. When he had an office, he worked from home most mornings. He was actually working. My dad worked from home in the mid 90s. He was actually working. I had to be quiet and not talk to him. It sucked.

Haha. The people that I know using a home office and telecommuting are really working and sensitive to distractions. It definitely makes it harder if there are other people in the home. I remember visiting with my girlfriend in her kitchen and her husband's office was adjacent. We were told to quiet down when he heard us in his office And I know my sister still takes her daughter to daycare when she's working at home. It's too distracting otherwise.

 

[superme80]

Haha. The people that I know using a home office and telecommuting are really working and sensitive to distractions. It definitely makes it harder if there are other people in the home. I remember visiting with my girlfriend in her kitchen and her husband's office was adjacent. We were told to quiet down when he heard us in his office And I know my sister still takes her daughter to daycare when she's working at home. It's too distracting otherwise.

We homeschool! You can imagine how loud it gets here. I told my husband to tell his boss, "We started homeschooling way before they closed your office." I am not changing my children's education because they are too cheap to keep an awesome open in our area. I might be a TAD bitter he is working from home now...

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And even harder than that, believe it or not, is having UNLIMITED sick days while being a remote employee. I don't think I've taken a true "sick day" in many, many years. We are pretty much expected to just get the job done no matter what. If we go out sick, our work is picked up by our backups, which by the time you get them up to speed, you may as well have just done it yourself (kind of like a teacher prepping for a sub!)

I had the flu last year - it started on a Wed afternoon. I only go into an office on Wednesdays for team meetings, and by the end of the day I felt like I was getting sick. By Friday evening I went to the minute-clinic, where I swabbed positive for the flu. The nurse gave me tamiflu. I slept all day Sat and Sunday, and by Monday, I just worked like normal, except I would rest in my desk chair with my eyes closed throughout the day since I was at home and nobody could see me. I don't think I even told my boss I had battled the flu in between the 7 days that I had last seen her!

I think from what I've read is companies that generally have unlimited pto time (and I'm going to count sick time in that for the purposes of the discussion) find that their employees actually use less time overall. I think for many it's the fear of the workload compounding into something that can't get caught back up on.

 

[bigbabyblues]

[QUOTE="Katie Dawn, post: 60495164, member: 146386"

This line really caught my eye. You aren't allowed to use sick time to take care of a sick child? You have to use vacation time?

I've never had a job that allowed me to use sick time unless I was sick, and 2 of 3 required a dr excuse.

 

[PigletsPal2]

I worked for the Chief of Support for a regional office in the gov't, which included Personnel, Finance, Logistics, and Security. When I learned that Personnel was changing to a 4/10 work week, I asked my boss if I could work a 4/10 schedule. He looked at me strangely and said "You already work a 5/10 work week; why would I let you convert to a 4/10?" He was right, so I continued to collect my ten hours of overtime each pay period.

 

[DisneyHardin]

That's correct. Our policy is to use sick leave for the employee's illness/doctor appts/procedures but annual leave for a child's sickness/Dr appts/procedures (spouses too... Anyone other than the employee

It certainly can! At my company if you are out for either your illness or a child/spouse you can miss 2 days and just use sick/annual leave like normal. On the 3rd day in a row, though, you have to submit paperwork and FMLA is started. So if my kid was out a full week for flu I would need to get documentation from her doctor and I would be put on temporary FMLA for that week. The good thing about this is that once I'm in the FMLA category I CAN use sick leave for family members. So it's not the week long flu that gets you... It's all the little 1-2 day illnesses they get here and there that can eat away at your annual leave balance

Actually I think the times where it's hardest to plan vacation is when you don't have any sick time at all but rather PTO.

When I was at the insurance company it was straight up PTO. It was a don't ask don't tell type thing. Now I was hourly and so I could ask off in 15min increments but planning a vacation was a very risky thing. You had to bank that you weren't going to actually need it for something more emergent say you're sick (or someone else was sick) or your car broke down or the weather was bad and so you couldn't get into work or you needed to do appointments, etc

Thanks to everyone that chimed in. I didn’t mean to derail the thread. I guess talking about their sick leave policy isn’t something I do with my friends, so I just assumed everyones policy was like mine. I’m a teacher, so we don’t get annual leave, so I guess that’s why our sick days are a little more flexible. My DH is a Sheriff Deputy and his sick days can be used for family. When you are both State employees, you don’t realize things are different out in the corporate world.

 

[DisneyHardin]

I think from what I've read is companies that generally have unlimited pto time (and I'm going to count sick time in that for the purposes of the discussion) find that their employees actually use less time overall. I think for many it's the fear of the workload compounding into something that can't get caught back up on.

My Brother in Law recently started a job with unlimited PTO and he commented the same thing. Other than a trip they took to Europe, he hasn’t used any true days off. If he has internet access, he works wherever he is.

 

[Nancyg56]

Thanks to everyone that chimes in. I didn’t mean to derail the thread. I guess talking about their sicknleave policy is t something I do with my friends, so I just assumed e dry ones policy was like mine. I’m a teacher, so we don’t get annual leave, so I guess that’s why our sick days are a little more flexible. My DH is a Sheriff Deputy and his sick days can be used for family. When you are both State employees, you don’t realize things are different out in the corporate world.

Every company has a policy that works for them. My employer has a genrerous time off policy. We are a small office so if someone is out, others are affected, and we need to step up a bit when we are short, yet we still have plenty of vacation, paid holidays, and 5 sick/personal days. If we choose we can take the day and work on a weekday or after hours in order to have the time still in place. The sick days are use or lose, and I think in 6 years i only used the full five one time. One of our coworkers got iss and lost a great deal of time, so my employer not only paid her for her vacation, sick time and holidays, he added STD for us so no one else needed to go through what she did.

My role is payroll and I have about 50 companies I run for. I have found that the more punitive employers are, the less respectful theri employees are towards them. WHen I have been asked to set up PTO polices that are very restrictive, or meanspirited, etc, I see a lot of turnover in that workplace.

 

[pixiedustedme]

So I found out today at the office that there are certain people, not in my department, that work from home every Friday. I also heard that a few of them pretty much treat as if they have a 4 day work week. I was talking to one of the persons and they told me that "work from home" means two things

1) be available to field phone calls and emails
2) get your work done and don't miss deadlines

Some of them even use it as a long weekend and work from the passenger seat on a Friday while they travel to their vacation destination.

I'm actually not upset about this more than I am jealous. Anyone else have the same office policy or do you think this is just abuse?

When my son was a baby & toddler, my ex worked from home so that our son wouldn't have to be in daycare. (I'm a schoolteacher, so working at home wasn't possible for me.) My ex really worked and got at least as much done as he would have at the office. He was a draftsman, so it's not like someone wouldn't have noticed if he wasn't being productive. He had deadlines to meet, and he met them. It worked for us and for his company.

 

[OKW8297]

I work out of my home office 1 day a week. Trust me. That day is jammed full of video conferencing, client phone calls, paperwork, and emails. I just put a nine hour day in yesterday only getting up to let the dog in/out, bathroom, and food/drink to bring back to the desk.

 

[mousefan73]

What annoys me is that my SIL, sometimes DH and kids think that since i am at home working, I can still jump and do personal things anytime. SIL is always calling during the day and I have the impression that when I say I am working, she is like yeah, yeah, you still got time for me. SIL and her DH often just pop in ( both retired) and find it odd that though I am at home I still dont have time for them. That being at home is a lessor kind of being in the office. Sure I can be flexible if I plan, and choose to.. But I am not sitting at my desk filing my nails at home. especially now as I am in the middle of a major project.. At times I dont have time to pee while working from home, less take calls from her.

 

[Hrhpd]

I think from what I've read is companies that generally have unlimited pto time (and I'm going to count sick time in that for the purposes of the discussion) find that their employees actually use less time overall. I think for many it's the fear of the workload compounding into something that can't get caught back up on.

My husband had 8 weeks, use it or lose it, PTO before the company went to unlimited. He would use some of it, mainly by taking lots of long weekends, single days here and there to golf, a week at Thanksgiving, the Christmas week, and then our annual vacations.

The move to unlimited has definitely reduced the amount of PTO that employees take. There is no incentive to use it because you are not losing any days by the end of the year, and most of all, nobody wants to be "that" person who takes the most vacation. Since the implementation of unlimited, he rarely takes more than 2-3 weeks during the year. And even on those vacations, we have to make sure there is internet because he still needs to be able to check-in so he is never 100% untied from his company.

It was definitely a win for the company.

 

[Hrhpd]

So I found out today at the office that there are certain people, not in my department, that work from home every Friday. I also heard that a few of them pretty much treat as if they have a 4 day work week. I was talking to one of the persons and they told me that "work from home" means two things

1) be available to field phone calls and emails
2) get your work done and don't miss deadlines

Some of them even use it as a long weekend and work from the passenger seat on a Friday while they travel to their vacation destination.

I'm actually not upset about this more than I am jealous. Anyone else have the same office policy or do you think this is just abuse?

That is way too much of a generalization. You forgot:
3) Puts in far more hours than one would when working in an office

My husband has remotely commuted for the past 7 years. I and most of his coworker's spouses see it far differently. Hours worked have doubled since he started working from home. Most of the employees that work remotely have a far better work ethic and drive to do just your #1 and your #2 is technically correct, but again, that work ethic means they do #2 and more.

My husband has managers and directors all over the world, so has no problem scheduling conference calls at 2am so they are convenient for his employees. If he was in an office setting and had to get in his car and drive rather than walking down the stairs, there would be more negotiation on making a call that is a bit more convenient for both parties.

When you have a physical office you drive to, you can shut the door at the end of the day and drive home, which gives you some feeling of leaving the job. When your office is down the hall in your house, it is way too easy to spend 12-14 hours in it working because you don't have to leave to go home. You can pop into the office on weekends to check in and get stuck there for 4 or 5 hours. It is much harder to separate to go do family things.

My husband spends far more hours working from home than he ever did when he had a physical office.

 

[Hrhpd]

I think "slacking off" is acceptable as long as your available, you meet your deadlines and get your work done. Most managers don't seem to care where or when the work got done.

In many companies today, especially the ones that routinely have remote employees, "getting your work done" is not enough. You need to get your current work done and then start on new projects, bring new ideas, basically fill your time with growing both the business and yourself. The employees just "getting their work done" are the ones slacking off. I disagree that most managers are ok with slacking off. That kind of attitude keeps you at a routine job with no potential of growth or gets you fired.

 

[ronandannette]

A few managers from time to time work from home. It would never work for the rest of us. Corporate IT forbids many of the pieces of equipment we need to work to be connected to the Internet for security reasons. So we have to be at work....to work.

Although I certainly don't understand anything but the basics of IT, we have a similar policy at my workplace. No one can "remote" into our servers. Even our field staff can't which means they rely on being able to reach people in the office to provide them with certain information in real-time during the day. We're in construction which is still a rather old-school kind of business. We make hay while the sun shines and our productivity relies on everybody being where they're expected to be during office hours. For us, unfortunately, "working at home" means being accessible by phone, text or e-mail on nights, weekends, sick days and while on vacation.

We have strict work-from-home policies, which only apply to some of our staff. Which no one follows. But for some positions, it just doesn't make sense.

A few years back, we hired someone that immediately took a month long vacation for wedding/honeymoon, then came back to work to announce that she was moving to another coast and working remotely. She decided that the above pertained to her, although our company policies said otherwise. Lots of calls with her at the pool, or having to wait until after yoga to be available for a call. But that started many of our work-from-home employees to do the same. (Thankfully, we finally got rid of her - for cause, because she actually didn't do a good job when she deigned to work - but it took a long time, and the damage stayed behind.)

It is a huge problem now. Those in the office might need information from a work-from-home person, but can't get it on a timely basis. Or it takes 10 emails spread out over 3 days to resolve an issue that would take 10 minutes face to face. And those that work-from-home will ask for and/or provide information nights, weekends, vacations, and expect immediate turnaround. So now there's an imbalance in workloads. Those that work from home have flexibility during the week, and don't feel the need to work 40 hours if they get their work done. But those that are in the office 9-5 all week are now expected to be responsive off hours on top of the 40+ hour work week, so it is adding hours to in-office employees.

Curious about what sort of company you work for that would allow an employee (especially a new hire) to waltz in and set their own terms?

I had no idea that there were places that wouldn't allow you sick time to take care of sick kids. That probably makes it hard to plan vacations since you would need a good bank of days stored up in case your child got the flu or something.

Our HR policies have changed at light-speed over the past year or so; our policies are now very different in some regards from the agreements we made when many of us were hired. No longer having any allowance of sick-time for family care is a big deal. We've been dealing with it on the branch level by just clandestinely allowing staff to "do what they need to do" but it does put management at a certain level of jeopardy if corporate ever catches on.