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To Infinity and Beyond - Becoming a Better DopeyBadger (Comments Welcome)

12 seconds!...I'd drive myself crazy too thinking about that. Hey but maybe when the preceding year's deduction is a small one, more people try to BQ and that drives the next years deduction to be bigger because it was more competitive and then it cycles? So maybe less people will be going for it this year? Is this a thing? Is this data that needs to be dissected?
:teacher:

One can hope.

I won't say that after my last race I started to wonder if I had skipped my porta potty stop if I'd have PR'd since it sorta derailed my momentum. And my husband said "I woulda just dumped water on me as I was going so no one would notice." And then I remembered that he is a triathlete (and yet I still do his race laundry :crazy2:.)

Hard pass.

Fun fact #3: If you see a unicorn the best way to approach it is to walk slowly, look it straight in the eye and offer up a banana, a cold towel, and a free beer ticket.

:lmao:
 
YEAR, FIELD SIZE LIMIT, CUT-OFF TIME*, AMOUNT OF QUALIFIERS NOT ACCEPTED

2012 27,000 1:14 3,228
2014 36,000 1:38 2,976
2015 30,000 1:02 1,947
2016 30,000 2:28 4,562
2017 30,000 2:09 2,957

So based on the above, it does kind of follow the up and down pattern I kind of thought it might. The number of entrants skews things I'm sure. It's not as extreme as the jump to the current -3:23.
 
YEAR, FIELD SIZE LIMIT, CUT-OFF TIME*, AMOUNT OF QUALIFIERS NOT ACCEPTED

2012 27,000 1:14 3,228
2014 36,000 1:38 2,976
2015 30,000 1:02 1,947
2016 30,000 2:28 4,562
2017 30,000 2:09 2,957

So based on the above, it does kind of follow the up and down pattern I kind of thought it might. The number of entrants skews things I'm sure. It's not as extreme as the jump to the current -3:23.

Makes sense. Kind of like how "top 3" in a local race goes up and down based on the previous year. A slow "top 3" usually leads to faster people signing up to nail that top 3 and then it becomes a fast top 3 that year. Looks like a good guess would be in the 2:30-3:00 range (but really just a guess).
 
Fun fact #4: Beastly Kingdom was set to be a major part of Animal Kingdom, but never was. The section was to feature realms surrounding "good" and "evil" creatures. The good realm would have been home to an attraction called Quest of the Unicorn, which would have been a mythological maze leading to the grotto where the unicorn lived. On the evil side would be an attraction called Dragon's Tower ruled by a greedy fire-breathing dragon that housed a treasure in the tower's chamber. Interestingly Universal opened up a Dueling Dragons coaster and Flight of the Unicorn ride before Disney broke ground on their kingdom. Common belief is someone took that idea from the Disney team over to Universal and pretty much squashed all desire for Disney to go forward with their plan.

In my world, @roxymama, you have just reached the same tier as @DopeyBadger with regards to expertise. Only instead of graphs and equations, you finesse the fantastical and mythically amazing. I'm not saying that equations are boring, just that concept art and unicorns are just as important to reality as math...
 


In my world, @roxymama, you have just reached the same tier as @DopeyBadger with regards to expertise. Only instead of graphs and equations, you finesse the fantastical and mythically amazing. I'm not saying that equations are boring, just that concept art and unicorns are just as important to reality as math...

Then you'll be happy to know that unicorns don't need to eat, they simply absorb sunlight through their horn and that is where they get their power. The equation for this is 6CO2 + 6H2O —> C6H12O6 + 6O2
However C stands for Candy, O is for Optimism and H is "a Heck of a lot of Glitter"
(Bonus fun fact...from my warped expert mind)
 
Then you'll be happy to know that unicorns don't need to eat, they simply absorb sunlight through their horn and that is where they get their power. The equation for this is 6CO2 + 6H2O —> C6H12O6 + 6O2
However C stands for Candy, O is for Optimism and H is "a Heck of a lot of Glitter"
(Bonus fun fact...from my warped expert mind)

Stop, I'm crying! Must get back to work!
 
Bad news: Left groin is sore today. No issues on Monday and then I woke up with a sore groin on Tuesday. Didn't really bother me all day and then no issues during the CV workout. Woke up on Wednesday and it was sore again. Ran on Wednesday without issue and iced it last night. Woke up this morning and still sore.

Good news: I have a training journal that I document these kind of instances.

6/27/17 - Pulled groin stretching after my M Tempo. Successfully completed 14 miles at LR pace on 7/2 without issue.
7/4/17 - Groin soreness after a CV workout. Successfully completed a 8 mile M Tempo on 7/6 without issue.
7/24/17 - Groin soreness after G's tee ball practice. Successfully completed a Ladder CV, Progression, and Hybrid LR with fast finish without issue in days after.
8/1/17 - Tight groin during HM Tempo workout. Successfully completed workout, 9 mile M Tempo, and 18 mile LR without issue days after.

That was the last time I had groin soreness. My guess is that it's been lingering in the background since August but has never really been an issue. It also appears that while it's noticeable during the daily life that it seems to not bother me during the run or get worse because I ran on it. Fingers crossed this continues to hold true. I'm just being taper minded I'm sure because it feels like 99% good. Just a hint.
 


I thought you should buy this for yourself G when you BQ. :)

BOOKFONG-85cm-Jumbo-White-font-b-Unicorn-b-font-Plush-Toys-font-b-Giant-b-font.jpg
 
I thought you should buy this for yourself G when you BQ. :)

BOOKFONG-85cm-Jumbo-White-font-b-Unicorn-b-font-Plush-Toys-font-b-Giant-b-font.jpg

Looks enormous! We were actually looking at costumes for Halloween the other day and ran in to some enticing unicorn options. Decided against it for race day because I have't tested it out yet. :P Too bad it's taper time now and no time to test anything.
 
2017 Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon Strategy

Pre-Race Day

-Beet-It Shots
--Consume one Beet-It shot (400mg nitrate) on Tuesday
--Consume two Beet-It shots (800mg nitrate) on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.
--Completing this dose loading procedure on the days prior will allow some residual NO2 and NO3 to exist in the blood since the pharmacodynamics suggest that with high dosing the levels do not return to normal after 24 hrs.

-Western Australian Carb Loading Procedure
On Saturday (the day before the race), I will attempt to follow the Western Australian Carb Loading Procedure. Here is an outline:

Screen Shot 2017-09-28 at 3.00.00 PM.png

My body weight as of this morning is 164 pounds (up from 157 prior to Lakefront 2016, although I'd like to argue most of this is good weight). My VO2max per my Garmin is 55 right now and has been hovering around 55-57 for the last several weeks.

Screen Shot 2017-09-28 at 3.00.16 PM.png

A person with a VO2max of 55 gets the following prediction chart. A typical marathon finishing time would be 3:35-3:58. Guess that means I'm not typical (or at least I hope so).

Screen Shot 2017-09-28 at 3.00.37 PM.png

Jack Daniels marathon range is from 2:59-3:20 for a VO2max of 55. An Elite Marathon Zone would be 2:57-3:05. Rut-roh look who found themselves in the "elite" zone for a goal time. What does this mean? If my VO2max is truly 55 (which is arguable one way or the other), then I better have a really really high running economy and thus Lactate Threshold that allows me to hold a relatively high pace given my VO2max. Do I think this is true? No idea. It would mean I need to be pretty darn good at what I do, thats for sure.

So, if we say a goal time of ~3:00 and look down the chart (~83% VO2max) you can see that the necessary glucose (g) / hour consumption rate needs to be 91.1 grams. Yikes! Not good. It believes that if I were to attempt this relative pace, I would need to consume near the human capacity for glucose per hour during racing (roughly 90g). But alas, that's not the strategy. I will be consuming some carbs while running, but the bulk of the storage will come from super compensation using the Western Australian Carb Loading Procedure.

Something to keep in mind. The original WACLP research paper stated that the procedure needed to be proceeded by a workout on the day prior to the marathon consisting of some 130% VO2max pacing. Like really really fast. Like 800m-1600m race pace for 2-3 minutes. That's plain nuts. However, the second WACLP research paper (which is almost never cited by people discussing this method) from the same research group showed that the super fast workout was unnecessary to yield the same super compensation benefits. If it works as it should, then my body will boost carbohydrate storage by 190% and is achieved because of the training done prior with all runs of less than 90 minutes without carbs. This will be my 5th time using this method and while I have no proof whether it works or not, I will continue to use it in the hopes it is actually achieving the end goal.

Screen Shot 2017-09-28 at 3.01.02 PM.png

The plan calls for 10.3 g carbs consumed for every kilogram of body weight. My weight this morning was 164, so I will use that. This means I need to consume 768 g carbs on Saturday. About 80% of that should come in liquid form to reduce GI bulk (614.3 g). In addition, 153 g carbs should come from non-liquid sources and real meals. This means I will consume 3071 calories of carbs and need to fill in the remainder of my diet with protein and fat. I will attempt to consume 85g of protein and 8 g of fat (that's tough for me). In order to consume 614.3 g carbs in liquid form, I need to consume 36 scoops of E-Fuel powder (71% Maltodrextin and 29% Fructose) which contains 17g carbs per scoop (the original WACLP uses 100% Maltodrextin). Each scoop needs 8 oz of water. I will need to space out this consumption of carbs with no more than 4 scoops per hour to ensure my body is absorbing all of the carbs and not overloaded. This means at least 9 hours of drinking 32 oz of carb drink (the earlier in the day this ends the better to give my body time to absorb everything prior to the race). In theory, this will boost my muscle's capacity to store carbs by 190% and will give me the ability to run as fast as a 3:06:36 marathon. Well, that means I can't just use the Western Australian Carb Loading Procedure solely either.

The amount of calories being consumed is not abnormal for me (3412 total calories) and that's key because you don't want to all of the sudden flood your body with more calories then it's used to. You just want to alter the percentage of the different sources (carbs, protein, and fat). During my normal diet, I typically consumed between 2900-3500 calories per day.

Meals wise, I'll stick to basic and probably have my oatmeal, bananas, chicken, rice, pretzels. Nothing too crazy.

Race Day

Consumables before race
-Breakfast

--Breakfast will consist of a peanut butter and honey bagel and a banana. Since the race starts at 7:30, I am estimating the last time I can use the restroom will be around 6:50am. Thus, this meal will be consumed around 4:50-5:00am.

-Water
--At breakfast, I will drink 32 oz of water. Since I like to give my bladder 2 hours from last drink to last chance to use the restroom. This means my last water drink will be around 4:50-5:00am.

-Beet-It Shot
--Ideally, this would be taken between 60-90 minutes prior to race start. The peak of the NO2 and NO3 in the blood occurs about 2.5-4 hours after consumption which means that this would be right in the middle of the race timing wise. However, the risk of needing to use the restroom far outweighs the benefits from the beet shots. Thus, I will also consume these shots at around 5:00am. This means I will have the peak effect of the Beet It during the first half of the marathon. But I'm not willing to risk the need to use the bathroom. I'll take two shots (800mg).

Consumables during race
-Water
-Given the forecast (T+D of 95-110) I plan on taking my small Nathan 10oz handheld with me. I was hoping to run without it, but I think the T+D is just a tad too high for me to get away without it. I plan to re-fill the bottle at every aid station (2, 4, 7.5, 10, 11, 13, 15.5, 17.5, 19.5, 21, 22.5, 24, and 25).

-E-Gel

--E-Gels contain 37g of carbs (Maltodrextin and Fructose, which double carb source has been shown to be more effective in consumptions rates because of different metabolic pathways). I will consume one E-Gel roughly 15 min prior to race start with a minimal amount of water. This will allow the first dose of carbs to begin the digestion process before the race actually starts. Given the water stops (2, 4, 7.5, 10, 11, 13, 15.5, 17.5, 19.5, 21, 22.5, 24, and 25) I need to time my gel consumption with the availability of water. So, I will carry three additional E-Gels (beyond the fourth taken right at the start) and consume them at 4, 11, and 17.5. No more than 90g carbs can be consumed within an hour and this will not violate that rule. I need to ensure I drink ~18 oz of water (2oz water per g carb) for absorption purposes.

Screen Shot 2017-09-28 at 3.02.16 PM.png

This comes out to 49 g carbs per hour and given my VO2max% as a goal (83) I would hit the wall at 19.7 miles. However, the WACLP should get me past that.

-RunGum
--The caffeinated RunGum in training took about 5 min to chew, one mile to become effective, and lasted about 6-7 miles. Thus, I plan to take the RunGum at Mile 19 with the hope that it kicks in at Mile 20.

Pacing
Probably one of the most important aspects of running a marathon is a sound pacing strategy. The last two years my pacing strategy has been to run blind. I don't look at any pace feedback (neither GPS watch or on course timing devices). I did this because I had been a consistently negative person to myself when the pacing would go awry. So by removing the feedback I could trust my effort through the race without the fear of negativity due to feedback. This strategy has served me well, but has been discussed many times prior leads to some very wacky pacing. I'm likely hindering my performance from a pacing standpoint by racing blind. Thus, for this race I will have some feedback, but will remember above all else: stay positive.

Screen Shot 2017-09-28 at 3.40.59 PM.png

Screen Shot 2017-09-28 at 3.41.09 PM.png

The course is a net downhill with some climbs at 2-3.5, 10, 17-19, and 21. Mile 23 is a massive downhill.

Screen Shot 2017-09-28 at 3.52.37 PM.png

Data mining has taught me to look to the past to help guide my future. The average training pace for marathon tempo workouts was a 6:59 min/mile over the last 9 weeks. If I use the 2015 Lakefront Marathon pacing structure as a guideline, or a 2% cap through 12 miles, or the 2016 Lakefront Marathon I get some scenarios to work with. My training dictates my capabilities and the Hansons training states that a 2% increase in fitness on race day is a near best case scenario. However, 2015 Lakefront was a 2.5% increase.

The plan will be to set a hard cap of 2% through mile 12. Which means I am not allowed to run any faster than a 6:51 min/mile until after mile 12. I can certainly run slower and in the case of the 2015 model I averaged a 7:01 min/mile through 10k. So my goal is to maintain a pace between 6:51-7:11 through the first 12 miles. According to these models, I should reach the 10k timing mat (accounting for the 1.005% increase in distance) around 42:37-43:43 and the HM timing mat around 1:30:03-1:31:12.

After mile 12, the cap comes off and I go back to running by feel. The goal is to hold myself back through the first 12 miles with this cap. If I'm slower then fine, but no faster. But after 12 miles, anything goes as long as it feels right.

At 24.35 miles, I intend on looking at my overall time. If I see a 2:46:00, then I know a sub-3 might still be possible. As long as I see less than 2:50:00, I know a useable BQ may still be in play.

The models then predict a 20 mile timing mat around 2:15-2:18. Lastly, as a finishing time between 2:57-3:04.

A lot of things can happen in a marathon, so I need to pay attention to the signs and signals my body is giving me.

Live Tracking
Live tracking will be available at the following link (LINK). I'm bib #152.

They've added additional tracking options:

Web-based
Map-based

What to watch for while live tracking.

Given the race starts at 7:30am central. The expected times of the timing mats (no guarantee as to what they actually have on course but based on past experience) would be as follows:

10k - 8:12am central
HM - 9:00am central
20 mile - 9:45-9:50am central
Finish - 10:30am central

Look for times in these areas

10k - 42-43 minutes
HM - 1:30-1:32
20 mile - 2:15-2:18

The real key will be looking at the pace between the timing mats. What is HM-10k and 20 mile - HM? Because that will indicate whether I am picking up the pace, slowing down, or maintaining. The 20 mile time minus the HM time and pace between will be the biggest indicator as to whether I am going to hit the goal. Because it will be necessary for me to pick up the pace slightly during that portion of the race.

That's the strategy. Thoughts?
 
Last edited:
Looks solid! You are smart to time out eating, drinking and bathroom breaks pre-race. Something I need to get better about planning.

Just out of curiosity because I had been thinking about if taking a handheld water bottle would have served me better during my half. What is your strategy for filling your water bottle and maintaining pace? Do you grab cups and fill on the move or stop and fill? I'm not a pro at race hydrating because I just haven't ran very many long enough distance races yet where it matters.
 
Looks solid! You are smart to time out eating, drinking and bathroom breaks pre-race. Something I need to get better about planning.

Just out of curiosity because I had been thinking about if taking a handheld water bottle would have served me better during my half. What is your strategy for filling your water bottle and maintaining pace? Do you grab cups and fill on the move or stop and fill? I'm not a pro at race hydrating because I just haven't ran very many long enough distance races yet where it matters.

I was just wondering this! Interested to see the answer.
Personally, I've never run with any water/hydration device, with the exception of trail races, which have aid stations much further apart (like, every 4-6 miles!). For those, I run with a hydration pack. Otherwise, during a road race, I enjoy the freedom of not having anything in my hands or otherwise attached to me. If need be, I'll grab two cups per station if it's hot, but usually one is enough for me. To actually drink the water or sports drink and not wear it, I'll take a short walking break, finish the cup, try to throw it in a garbage bin if they have any, and get back on pace.
 
I was just wondering this! Interested to see the answer.
Personally, I've never run with any water/hydration device, with the exception of trail races, which have aid stations much further apart (like, every 4-6 miles!). For those, I run with a hydration pack. Otherwise, during a road race, I enjoy the freedom of not having anything in my hands or otherwise attached to me. If need be, I'll grab two cups per station if it's hot, but usually one is enough for me. To actually drink the water or sports drink and not wear it, I'll take a short walking break, finish the cup, try to throw it in a garbage bin if they have any, and get back on pace.

Nothing new on race day!!

For your pacing strategy, have you considered programming a virtual runner into your Garmin? Provides a quick visual guide to how far ahead or behind your target pace/time you are at any given moment you choose to look. Might be a good balance for the second part of the race between going totally blind and having your pace constantly displayed.
 
Looks solid! You are smart to time out eating, drinking and bathroom breaks pre-race. Something I need to get better about planning.

It's a vital piece of the puzzle that I learned several times early on in my career. Bathroom stops can be devastating to the overall time. So if you can find a body rhythm that works for you that keeps those things from happening all the better.

Just out of curiosity because I had been thinking about if taking a handheld water bottle would have served me better during my half. What is your strategy for filling your water bottle and maintaining pace? Do you grab cups and fill on the move or stop and fill? I'm not a pro at race hydrating because I just haven't ran very many long enough distance races yet where it matters.

https://www.nathansports.com/quickshot-plus-hydration-flask-4836n

Screen Shot 2017-09-28 at 7.51.24 PM.png

I have this one which fits like a glove over your hand. It means that I never really have to grip it. It's just attached to my hand. Thus, my fingers and hand are still useable. So when I approach the aid station, I unscrew the cap with my left hand. Then I place the cap in my right hand (hand with water bottle in it). I just tuck the cap between my fingers and the bottle. Then I grab a cup with my left hand and quickly pour it into the bottle. Then grab another cup and pour. My goal is always to get two if I can. Then quickly replace the cap and drink from the bottle at will. In general, I never break stride. This is important for me because one of my biggest deficiencies is the ability to get going again after taking a break. Although, I've been working on "restarting" for years and have definitely gotten better with it.

I'll take a short walking break, finish the cup, try to throw it in a garbage bin if they have any, and get back on pace.

That's where things tend to fall apart for me. It's not a fear of losing time, but more so that I struggle to get back going again.

Nothing new on race day!!

:D

For your pacing strategy, have you considered programming a virtual runner into your Garmin? Provides a quick visual guide to how far ahead or behind your target pace/time you are at any given moment you choose to look. Might be a good balance for the second part of the race between going totally blind and having your pace constantly displayed.

I added a new edit that I forgot to the strategy:

At 24.35 miles, I intend on looking at my overall time. If I see a 2:46:00, then I know a sub-3 might still be possible. As long as I see less than 2:50:00, I know a useable BQ may still be in play.

I'm not sure I'd want the virtual pacer because I'd still just stare at that instead of listening to myself. We'll see what happens I guess.
 
Turn the data screen to something meaningless. One button push shows the virtual pacer, one button push hides it.

Fair enough. I usually move it to time of day and just never look. I just looked it up and the Garmin 235 does not have a virtual pacer feature though. It has a "finish time" feature but looks like that sets a workout with its own features.
 
That's very similar to the Nathan one I use on my long runs and refill at the water fountains. Except mine has a slightly different top to it. But same idea. I bet being as fast as you are helps in having more room at the water stations too...less dead stoppers in front of you.
 
That's very similar to the Nathan one I use on my long runs and refill at the water fountains. Except mine has a slightly different top to it. But same idea. I bet being as fast as you are helps in having more room at the water stations too...less dead stoppers in front of you.

It certainly helps, but there are certainly dead stoppers. At Disney where I finished 193 out of 19000ish, I still had someone cut me off at the aid station without ever looking around mile 17. He actually did it to me again on the WWOS track. I for sure gave him the look.

I also have the other race cap too (push pull).
 
Weather Watch

START - Grafton, WI at 7:30am

9/22 - T+D of 94, no clouds, and 5 mph tailwind (as of 8:45am this dropped to 90). Accuweather actually has it as T+D of no higher than 80 (at the start) and increasing clouds.
9/23 - T+D of 88, partly sunny, 5mph tailwind. Accuweather has the T+D no higher than 82 at the start.
9/24 - T+D of 89, sunny, and 4mph wind. Accuweather has the T+D no higher than 82.
9/25 - T+D of 93, sunny, and 2 mph wind. Accuweather has the T+D no higher than 90 at the start.
9/26 - T+D of 95, no clouds, 3 mph wind. Accuweather has the T+D no higher than 90 at the start.
9/27 - T+D of 96, no clouds, 5 mph wind

9/28 - T+D of 95, 19% clouds, 5 mph wind. Accuweather has the T+D no higher than 90.

Screen Shot 2017-09-29 at 6.40.46 AM.png

9/29 - T+D of 91, 39% cloudy, 4 mph wind

FINISH - Milwaukee, WI at ~10:30am

9/22 - T+D of 108, no clouds, 11 mph tailwind (as of 8:45am this dropped to 103).
9/23 - T+D of 103, partly sunny, 8 mph tailwind
9/24 - T+D of 106, partly sunny, 6mph wind
9/25 - T+D of 109, sunny, 7 mph headwind
9/26 - T+D of 109, no clouds, 8 mph headwind
9/27 - T+D of 114, sunny, 12 mph headwind
9/28 - T+D of 113, 43% cloudy, 12 mph headwind

Screen Shot 2017-09-29 at 6.41.28 AM.png

9/29 - T+D of 110, 37% cloudy, 12 mph headwind

@pixarmom Noon weather

9/23 - T+D of 106, partly sunny, 10 mph headwind
9/24 - T+D of 110, partly sunny, 8mph headwind
9/25 - T+D of 112, sunny, 12 mph headwind
9/26 - T+D of 115, no clouds, 12 mph headwind
9/27 - T+D of 115, sunny, 14 mph headwind

9/28 - T+D of 114, 46% cloudy, 15 mph headwind
9/29 - T+D of 114, 32% cloudy, 14 mph headwind
 

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