UPDATE: Finally got access to contract, points missing (FOUND! Disney's error)

[station]

UPDATE: After some more research and calling DVC again, I spoke to someone in member services who looked deeply into the issue and found the points, and added them to my account (thank you @KAT4DISNEY for the suggestion, and @Sandisw for casting doubt on the coincidence of this being another deliberate seller action).

I've stripped the broker's name from this post in fairness, although I do still feel as though they have been opaque and non-communicative. As far as I can tell, this appears to be Disney's error in account setup, and a couple initial unhelpful calls with DVC Member Services.

The contract in question is $240-$25684-100-VGC-Jun-100/23, 200/24, 100/25- sent 11/3, passed 11/29, closed 12/20. DVC setup this week.

After some holiday delays and hearing conflicting information from Disney, I finally got access to my points, where my actual points were 0/23, 200/24, 100/25

This contract was originally listed as a 200/23, 100/24, 100/25. I asked the agent if the seller would be open to banking the 2023 points to 2024, and they agreed as part of the sale. Whether or not this was actually a 100/100/100 all along and it was a lie from the start, I don't know.

As others have discussed, my contract has a clause that all points must not be used before closing, and any used points will be paid at $25/point, etc. But as I was unable to verify the points myself until ~2 weeks after closing, the funds have already been dispersed.

The close was actually delayed a bit to 12/20 because I was waiting and insisting that I get to see a point summary, as I was hoping to get some last minute use out of the 2023 points, and the title company finally confirmed with me that (the broker) checked it and confirmed they were correct.

I've highlighted this discrepancy to (the broker) and (the title company), and cited the relevant lines in the contract.

What could I have done to avoid or prevent this?

 

[Chili327]

Not sure what you could have done different, but $240 is an EXCELLENT price for 100 VGC.!!!

 

[station]

I guess the lesson is to only work with (this broker) for amazing deals. That way, when they inevitably make a mistake, your excellent deal becomes a good deal.

To me, great deal or not, that's not who I want to do business with. I would rather pay a little more and get exactly what's owed to me.

Is there any practical way to get the $25/point listed in the contract? Has anyone successfully been paid back for missing points?

 

[pianomanzano]

You should talk to @TheDailyMoo as they’re going through the exact same thing right now.

 

[JackosinDIS]

Sorry you’ve had that experience! Fidelity is not doing their rep any good on these boards at the moment!

I have a contract with them that closed on 12/29… similar situation, June UY and I asked the seller to bank the points prior to ROFR. The broker verified that the points had been banked although did not share the screen shot with me… I wish I had insisted on seeing now!

Fingers crossed things get sorted for you. I know that with @TheDailyMoo they offered some compensation of sorts but not sure whether that has been sorted now or not.

 

[Nikkimouse44]

I’m in a waiting period in ROFR now. June UY. We asked the selling to bank points. Broker said they did. It’s in our contract. I haven’t seen any screenshots either. Once we get news back from Disney I’m going to ask to see screenshots. I asked our title company who checks this after reading all these threads (Cammy is who we are working with) and she said they take care of it.

I wonder if it’s the individual broker who drops the ball, or just fidelity as a whole? But all of this just makes me so nervous and I’m already so anxious over waiting over 2 weeks since it’s been sent to Disney

 

[Sandisw]

Not much more you can do and it is certainly disheartening that someone isn’t on thr ball to make sure listings are correct…or that however they are verifying it, they are not doing a good job.

I don’t buy that two contracts in the last month have had sellers who used points after selling.

 

[intamin]

It may be time to start boycotting Fidelity at this rate lol

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I'm not certain why you insisted on a delay in the closing to verify points. However have you spoken with DVC to ask them to verify all points were loaded correctly? That was difficult to determine from your post.

 

[crvetter]

what’s weird is that DVC is partly to blame. When they release the estoppel they are supposed to verify the points on the contract and what is really there. When I closed on my GCH resale years ago I asked them to bank, they did, the contract wasn’t updated when sent for the estoppel and DVC returned it and made us restart the process.

 

[station]

I'm not certain why you insisted on a delay in the closing to verify points. However have you spoken with DVC to ask them to verify all points were loaded correctly? That was difficult to determine from your post.

I requested a point summary after ROFR came back, and I heard absolutely nothing from (the broker). I wasn’t sure when or how long it would take, so I ultimately called the person at (the title company) handling my closing and asked. They confirmed that “the points match” and it was “approved by your broker on 12/18”.

Today, I called DVC and spoke to member services—I am new to DVC so if there’s a particular time or place to call, please let me know. The rep said all points are loaded and ready to book. (Zero in 2023 is correct from her perspective)

EDIT: This turned out to be the crucial step, lesson learned, thank you.

 

[aceshigh73]

what’s weird is that DVC is partly to blame. When they release the estoppel they are supposed to verify the points on the contract and what is really there. When I closed on my GCH resale years ago I asked them to bank, they did, the contract wasn’t updated when sent for the estoppel and DVC returned it and made us restart the process.

Pretty sure @Sandisw has explained in @TheDailyMoo 's post that the estoppel does not verify points, and also the sellers have access to the account up until Disney moves the contract and points.

Im closing tuesday 1/9 on my Fidelity/Cammy BWV contract.... Ive been a royal pain to both her and my Fidelity broker, and received a screenshot a few days ago of the pts. And Im crossing my fingers this goes as planned.

Fidelity better get this sh*t figured out and their agents better get on the ball or they will find themselves out of business and/or with litigation up to their eyeballs. Freaking Used Timeshare salespeople!!!

 

[Sandisw]

Pretty sure @Sandisw has explained in @TheDailyMoo 's post that the estoppel does not verify points, and also the sellers have access to the account up until Disney moves the contract and points.

Im closing tuesday 1/9 on my Fidelity/Cammy BWV contract.... Ive been a royal pain to both her and my Fidelity broker, and received a screenshot a few days ago of the pts. And Im crossing my fingers this goes as planned.

Fidelity better get this sh*t figured out and their agents better get on the ball or they will find themselves out of business and/or with litigation up to their eyeballs. Freaking Used Timeshare salespeople!!!

That is correct. Estoppel is issued for the financial elements only. DVD used to issue a points activity statement as well, but that stopped years ago. It’s the reason why brokers and title companies ask sellers to provide their own copy.

 

[Nikkimouse44]

Pretty sure @Sandisw has explained in @TheDailyMoo 's post that the estoppel does not verify points, and also the sellers have access to the account up until Disney moves the contract and points.

Im closing tuesday 1/9 on my Fidelity/Cammy BWV contract.... Ive been a royal pain to both her and my Fidelity broker, and received a screenshot a few days ago of the pts. And Im crossing my fingers this goes as planned.

Fidelity better get this sh*t figured out and their agents better get on the ball or they will find themselves out of business and/or with litigation up to their eyeballs. Freaking Used Timeshare salespeople!!!

Who are you working with at fidelity? If you don’t mind me ask and first name only is fine lol

 

[aceshigh73]

Who are you working with at fidelity? If you don’t mind me ask and first name only is fine lol

Check your PM's

 

[station]

Honestly, if there’s no real assurance or recourse, resale contracts should all be priced and bought as if they are stripped.

Perhaps brokers shouldn’t list current points in listings because they are essentially unable to be guaranteed (would be false advertising, not that it matters). In the current system, I don’t see a path that ensures the buyer gets these points, unless the seller is, out of their own kindness, willing to share a screenshot (and give up whatever value those points might fetch for them). Am I missing something?

 

[Nikkimouse44]

Honestly, if there’s no real assurance or recourse, resale contracts should all be priced and bought as if they are stripped. Who knows, maybe Fidelity even suggested the seller burn the points?

Perhaps brokers shouldn’t list current points in listings because they are essentially unable to be guaranteed (would be false advertising). In the current system, I don’t see a path that protects the buyer, am I missing something?

I’m with @Sandisw, that it’s too big of a coincidence that a seller used their points during a sale. So now I’m going to be super diligent if my contract passes ROFR. It’s hard to know if it’s the same agent making these issues, multiple agents with the company, or what, but it’s so strange it has happened twice in a month now, and I’m new here but seems from reading these two were the only times?

 

[emchen]

Check your PM's

I'd like to know who to avoid too, if I ever find myself having to buy through Fidelity...

 

[aceshigh73]

I'd like to know who to avoid too, if I ever find myself having to buy through Fidelity...

I havent had any issues with Fidelity 'yet'. My closing is 1/9, so I'll know in the next week or so.
Its @TheDailyMoo and the OP who id recommend PM'ing for their agents that screwed up!

 

[aceshigh73]

Honestly, if there’s no real assurance or recourse, resale contracts should all be priced and bought as if they are stripped. Who knows, maybe Fidelity even suggested the seller burn the points?

Perhaps brokers shouldn’t list current points in listings because they are essentially unable to be guaranteed (would be false advertising, not that it matters). In the current system, I don’t see a path that ensures the buyer gets these points, unless the seller is, out of their own kindness, willing to share a screenshot (and give up whatever value those points might fetch for them). Am I missing something?

the recourse is in your contract. Fidelity's states that you get $25/pt for missing pts. Only issue is its from the seller. Good luck with that part..... I mean, legally they are in breach, but now you have to go after them OR, make enough stink publically, put the Fidelity and the agent on blast and see if they will cover the $2500