**UPDATE** Has this happened to any other resale buyers? Fidelity made it right!

[TheDailyMoo]

***UPDATE ON PAGE 11**

Purchased a BCV from Fidelity and closed on it using DVC Title a few weeks ago. Was for 123 points in 2024 and 150 from 2025 on. Saw that the contract was added to my dashboard last week. Today I went to see if I could make a booking at 11 months and it said 2024: 0 2025: 123 2026: 150. Well...that can't be right....

I called MS and the woman said nope that's what she sees too and told me to contact the listing agent. I immediately checked my contract and yup there it was: June 2024: 123 points. I wasn't going crazy. So I called Fidelity but couldn't get a hold of my broker. I was able to reach another broker I had worked with who is way better at answering her phone and she verified the contract details.

Ok next I contacted DVC Title by email and got a response saying they would look into it and see what Disney says. Well that was early afternoon and nothing yet. Now I'm starting to think this may be a DVC issue because I see the 123 in 2025 and it's such a specific number that it must've been a glitch in the system somewhere. Could there have been a trip planned? I think how can points be borrowed from 2025 for a 2023 trip? It can't. And I also think well they couldn't have a trip booked in 2024 because the contract wouldn't be allowed to sell. So I call MS back just a bit ago and they put me on hold for 35 minutes while the team (team? one person in a backroom?) checks and lo and behold...the sellers have a trip booked in 2024 and it turns out you CAN indeed sell a contract while points are in use! The guy at MS was super nice and he definitely felt bad about it but obviously nothing he could do. I asked if they could cancel the reservation and reinstate the points. He said only the seller can cancel but he thought that it would be possible to return the points. So all in all...this is very annoying! And I could've sworn this is what the brokerage or closing company was supposed to do...verify the points that were in the contract. Is this a unique case or does this happen more often than it should? Either way I'm hoping this can get resolved quickly as I'd like to use those 2024 points!

 

[intamin]

Purchased a BCV from Fidelity and closed on it using DVC Title a few weeks ago. Was for 123 points in 2024 and 150 from 2025 on. Saw that the contract was added to my dashboard last week. Today I went to see if I could make a booking at 11 months and it said 2024: 0 2025: 123 2026: 150. Well...that can't be right....

I called MS and the woman said nope that's what she sees too and told me to contact the listing agent. I immediately checked my contract and yup there it was: June 2024: 123 points. I wasn't going crazy. So I called Fidelity but couldn't get a hold of my broker. I was able to reach another broker I had worked with who is way better at answering her phone and she verified the contract details.

Ok next I contacted DVC Title by email and got a response saying they would look into it and see what Disney says. Well that was early afternoon and nothing yet. Now I'm starting to think this may be a DVC issue because I see the 123 in 2025 and it's such a specific number that it must've been a glitch in the system somewhere. Could there have been a trip planned? I think how can points be borrowed from 2025 for a 2023 trip? It can't. And I also think well they couldn't have a trip booked in 2024 because the contract wouldn't be allowed to sell. So I call MS back just a bit ago and they put me on hold for 35 minutes while the team (team? one person in a backroom?) checks and lo and behold...the sellers have a trip booked in 2024 and it turns out you CAN indeed sell a contract while points are in use! The guy at MS was super nice and he definitely felt bad about it but obviously nothing he could do. I asked if they could cancel the reservation and reinstate the points. He said only the seller can cancel but he thought that it would be possible to return the points. So all in all...this is very annoying! And I could've sworn this is what the brokerage or closing company was supposed to do...verify the points that were in the contract. Is this a unique case or does this happen more often than it should? Either way I'm hoping this can get resolved quickly as I'd like to use those 2024 points!

Is anybody actually surprised that this would happen with Fidelity? I swear it's ALWAYS Fidelity that has these issues and they're terrible at doing their job. I would triple check EVERYTHING if you're buying a resale contract through Fidelity. Anyways, I've never seen a contract be able to be sold while points are in use so that's interesting. In your contract sale agreement it should tell you how much per point you are owed for every single point missing (usually 20-25 dollars per point) from what was agreed upon. When I bought mine from a different broker, I found out 15 of the points were banked instead of in the use year as what was agreed upon and was reimbursed 300. Yours would obviously be a much larger scale if you're missing 150 points and unfortunately means a lot more to you given the limited time on these 2042 resorts.

 

[Sandisw]

I am sorry it happened. Since the contract was transferred to you already and is on your dashboard, it sounds like the owner transferred out the points since you don’t see the reservstion?

I’d go back to the title company because the sellers would owe you money for missing points. And, the title companies will check points based on what the owner submits to them…some believe that estoppel does it, but it does not…that is simply financial issues.

Hopefully, it gets fixed…oh, and yes, this has happened to people before and unfortunately, it’s been with the broker you used.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

Is anybody actually surprised that this would happen with Fidelity? I swear it's ALWAYS Fidelity that has these issues and they're terrible at doing their job. I would triple check EVERYTHING if you're buying a resale contract through Fidelity. Anyways, I've never seen a contract be able to be sold while points are in use so that's interesting. In your contract sale agreement it should tell you how much per point you are owed for every single point missing (usually 20-25 dollars per point) from what was agreed upon. When I bought mine from a different broker, I found out 15 of the points were banked instead of in the use year as what was agreed upon and was reimbursed 300. Yours would obviously be a much larger scale if you're missing 150 points and unfortunately means a lot more to you given the limited time on these 2042 resorts.

I am sorry it happened. Since the contract was transferred to you already and is on your dashboard, it sounds like the owner transferred out the points since you don’t see the reservstion?

I’d go back to the title company because the sellers would owe you money for missing points. And, the title companies will check points based on what the owner submits to them…some believe that estoppel does it, but it does not…that is simply financial issues.

Hopefully, it gets fixed…oh, and yes, this has happened to people before and unfortunately, it’s been with the broker you used.

So in this situation you both blame fidelity over DVC Title? I honestly can't believe there are no checks on this sort of thing. Yes there is a $25 pp fee but I'm sure what's going to happen is someone is going to say they will reach out to the sellers or something like that and I can see this taking a while to get resolved. I probably won't get any compensation but I'll have been without those points for weeks while it gets sorted out. Not ideal. I really did think that a sale was impossible if any of the contract points were currently being used in a reservation.
@Sandisw you think they transferred the points to someone else's account? The MS guy I spoke to says the person that looked into it saw the points in a 2024 reservation. Is that the same thing? Because I specifically asked him if the points were used to make another reservation that they can see and he said yes.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

Yeesh what a nightmare! Ngl now I’m little nervous with my fidelity contract that’s currently in closing

 

[intamin]

So in this situation you both blame fidelity over DVC Title? I honestly can't believe there are no checks on this sort of thing. Yes there is a $25 pp fee but I'm sure what's going to happen is someone is going to say they will reach out to the sellers or something like that and I can see this taking a while to get resolved. I probably won't get any compensation but I'll have been without those points for weeks while it gets sorted out. Not ideal. I really did think that a sale was impossible if any of the contract points were currently being used in a reservation.
@Sandisw you think they transferred the points to someone else's account? The MS guy I spoke to says the person that looked into it saw the points in a 2024 reservation. Is that the same thing? Because I specifically asked him if the points were used to make another reservation that they can see and he said yes.

Maybe he had multiple use years and transferred the BCV points to another membership and then sold off the contract. You absolutely should get the reimbursement for the missing points or in this case 3,750 dollars.

Edit: as I said below since it's crossing multiple use years pretty sure it actually can't be a transfer since it would have to be from the UY the trip falls in

 

[aceshigh73]

Maybe he had multiple use years and transferred the BCV points to another membership and then sold off the contract. You absolutely should get the reimbursement for the missing points or in this case 3,750 dollars.

It is quite odd how the same amount of pts (123) should have been in 2024 and now that amount is in 2025. So they took the 123 and then 27 from 2025 and made a reservation? Leaving another 123 in 2025?

 

[jason423]

What a nightmare. Still I wonder if there is a DVC issue because even with a vacation booked using 2024 points they should not be able to borrow from 2025 and it sounds like the membership is showing the 123 for 2025 and not 2024(edit---they probably can borrow for a trip after June of 24). Is there any chance DVC cancelled the reservation (I thought that is what they are supposed to do if its sold) and they then put the points back in the wrong use year? Based on what you are describing it sounds like you guys signed the contract and the seller went in after everything was sent over and then booked a trip. Thats pretty terrible.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Wow….

 

[TheDailyMoo]

It is quite odd how the same amount of pts (123) should have been in 2024 and now that amount is in 2025. So they took the 123 and then 27 from 2025 and made a reservation? Leaving another 123 in 2025?

I just looked at all BC points and played around with the math. It's a June contract and we closed a couple of weeks ago so the reservation had to be after June but before November. And there it is in October...a one bedroom, 2 weekend nights and 2 weekdays equal 150. Nothing else in any other room category in any permutation gets to 150. So they must keep borrowing the same points each year for the same trip in this particular contract.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

What a nightmare. Still I wonder if there is a DVC issue because even with a vacation booked using 2024 points they should not be able to borrow from 2025 and it sounds like the membership is showing the 123 for 2025 and not 2024(edit---they probably can borrow for a trip after June of 24). Is there any chance DVC cancelled the reservation (I thought that is what they are supposed to do if its sold) and they then put the points back in the wrong use year? Based on what you are describing it sounds like you guys signed the contract and the seller went in after everything was sent over and then booked a trip. Thats pretty terrible.

I thought that couldn't be done either but MS said nope...a contract can definitely be sold while points are in play. Crazy huh! FWIW Disney MS are really very nice about helping as much as they could.

 

[intamin]

What a nightmare. Still I wonder if there is a DVC issue because even with a vacation booked using 2024 points they should not be able to borrow from 2025 and it sounds like the membership is showing the 123 for 2025 and not 2024(edit---they probably can borrow for a trip after June of 24). Is there any chance DVC cancelled the reservation (I thought that is what they are supposed to do if its sold) and they then put the points back in the wrong use year? Based on what you are describing it sounds like you guys signed the contract and the seller went in after everything was sent over and then booked a trip. Thats pretty terrible.

That's true, if it was transferred, he wouldn't be able to borrow the next UY's points and then transfer those points since they all have to come from the current use year for a transfer. This makes it more likely that it was an error with the documentation of the number of points or like MS is saying, the points were used to book a reservation that is active. Maybe they allowed it because he had other contracts in the UY? But then again, did he magically use the EXACT number of points to take away one years worth of points (150) on a reservation? My money is still on the fact that somewhat screwed up their job and didn't verify the number of points in the contract.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

Maybe he had multiple use years and transferred the BCV points to another membership and then sold off the contract. You absolutely should get the reimbursement for the missing points or in this case 3,750 dollars.

The broker told me that the woman who sold it was very old supposedly and barely knew how to use the internet. And supposedly she sold two SSR contracts with this BC. If I am to believe that then one of two things is most probable. Either:

a) this person is so old and out of it that they kept making reservations even though they were selling it. or

b) some sort of kids or others have access to the account and made the reservations.

IF B) then two more options:
1) the kids had no idea that the parents (or whatever the relation is) were selling. or
2) they're little scammers that thought they could get away with something like this or wouldn't care if the old sellers got in trouble.

 

[aceshigh73]

The broker told me that the woman who sold it was very old supposedly and barely knew how to use the internet. And supposedly she sold two SSR contracts with this BC. If I am to believe that then one of two things is most probable. Either:

a) this person is so old and out of it that they kept making reservations even though they were selling it. or

b) some sort of kids or others have access to the account and made the reservations.

IF B) then two more options:
1) the kids had no idea that the parents (or whatever the relation is) were selling. or
2) they're little scammers that thought they could get away with something like this or wouldn't care if the old sellers got in trouble.

Im going B-1. We have friends whose elderly parents are original OKW owners. Dad was the DVC guy and passed, now the adult child goes in and makes reservations for the family.
Its possible someone told the old lady she can sell the contract and did just that, without telling adult child, or not knowing there would be ramifications of another reservation made or they had forgotten about it since its probably quite aways away. Who the heck really knows

 

[TheDailyMoo]

Im going B-1. We have friends whose elderly parents are original OKW owners. Dad was the DVC guy and passed, now the adult child goes in and makes reservations for the family.
Its possible someone told the old lady she can sell the contract and did just that, without telling adult child, or not knowing there would be ramifications of another reservation made or they had forgotten about it since its probably quite aways away. Who the heck really knows

I'm also in the B1 camp lol. I just hope it gets resolved quickly because I would like to try to book late November which is kind of already at the 11 month mark.

 

[JackosinDIS]

Oh no, what a pain trying to sort this out!
Perhaps the Seller borrowed some of the 2025 points for a reservation that was mixed with points from another contract, so that res will still be sat on the sellers dashboard and needs to be cancelled by them. They must have done this after the contract was through ROFR, otherwise Disney would have noticed that it was wrong surely! Either way, the points status was listed incorrectly and the seller owes you the money for the missing points! How easy it is to get that back is another question.

This broker is slightly worrying sometimes… I often see contracts listed with a January use year on their site ?!

 

[DanCali]

Either way, the points status was listed incorrectly and the seller owes you the money for the missing points! How easy it is to get that back is another question.

This is where the fine print really matters. While everyone assures the buyer things will be fine, the reality is a careless/malicious seller can always drain/use/transfer the points even after the new deed is filed with the county because they continue to control it on their dashboard until DVC transfers ownership, which can take 1-2 weeks. I've worked with a broker who didn't even have the missing point reimbursement clause in the contract and I've had to go back and forth numerous times to add it in. On the other hand, one of the brokers specifies in the sales contract that they (the broker) will reimburse the buyer $X/pt is any points are missing. I suspect that, because of that, they also triple check everything... (yet still not 100% foolproof because of the timing issue pointed out above). These situations are likely very rare but the language in the contract makes all the difference in the world when they do occur.

@TheDailyMoo Sorry you are having to deal with this... it's a lot of money. Were you able to determine from the title company who is responsible for that final check of the points on the dashboard before the deed is filed? I suspect it's technically the broker, but not sure how many of them stay involved after the title company is handling the process.

 

[cdirazonian]

Sorry that this has happened to you. Hopefully the broker or seller makes this right for you, it is a lot of money & id be upset too.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention though, as I had no idea that this could happen! I was under the impression that the closing company would catch this or the broker.

so the broker just takes the word of the seller of how many points they own? Or do they ask for a print out of their dashboard or something before listing the contract for sale?

 

[DanCali]

so the broker just takes the word of the seller of how many points they own? Or do they ask for a print out of their dashboard or something before listing the contract for sale?

The ones I've talked to say that they have a printout from the dashboard or even that they have access to the dashboard. They even say they look at it again right before the deed is filed.

But the issue is that it's a snapshot at a point in time. And that can change anytime afterwards, until the contract is on the buyer's dashboard (which includes a short period after the ownership legally transfers by filing the new deed with the county). So, as a buyer, you should make sure you are protected for cases where the seller may make an honest mistake, or worse...

It's probably riskier for cases with a delayed closing, where the seller has more opportunities to make a mistake and use up some points they are supposed to transfer to the buyer.

 

[aceshigh73]

I am currently working with Fidelity on a BWV contract and after speaking with @TheDailyMoo in chat, I asked my agent for screenshots of the sellers dashboard and point transactions. The fidelity agent supplied them instantly. Not sure if the agent has access to the members dashboard or he just had the pics already. But I am fairly confident mine will be ok. And sometimes it is an honest mistake or whatever.