What is going on?

[john7994]

My mom’s flight was just cancelled. I tried rebooking her online and the price jumped $200 between when I first found a reservation and when I actually paid for it. Way too many people chasing too many seats out of MCO. A lot of people aren’t flying until Tuesday.

And especially with GoTG previews happening prior to the Memorial Day Holiday - its got to be crazy ... Even Park Reservations are a mess weeks in advance - and school isnt even out yet!

 

[jade1]

My mom’s flight was just cancelled. I tried rebooking her online and the price jumped $200 between when I first found a reservation and when I actually paid for it. Way too many people chasing too many seats out of MCO. A lot of people aren’t flying until Tuesday.

Dang. What arline cancelled? Looking into an upcomig flight and hoping to go with the least likely to cancel airline.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

Dang. What arline cancelled? Looking into an upcomig flight and hoping to go with the least likely to cancel airline.

JetBlue to a regional airport. Fortunately she finally got onto a flight to NYC but she’s pretty stressed.

 

[bbeagle]

It's a Disney problem. I stayed at Universal in early January and had my room cleaned everyday and top-notch service everywhere I went in the hotel and the parks. No signs of employee shortages or pandemic limitations.

On another note, may I ask what hotel you stayed at in Phoenix? Heading there is a few weeks and need a hotel by the airport. Thx

I read many TripAdvisor reviews about the universal Hard Rock hotel, and most everyone is complaining of the lack of housekeeping there as well as disgusting rooms. Universal isn’t all roses - it’s a problem everywhere

 

[ML_LovesDisney]

I just returned from a week on business in Phoenix. I stayed at a nice hotel complex, and several things struck me:

1. Everything was open.
2. Everything was immaculate.
3. My room exceeded the best experience I've had at a deluxe resort at WDW, but at about one quarter the price. And my room was fully tended to by housekeeping every day.
4. Food/beverage prices were reasonable.
5. Staff was friendly and engaging.

So what's the deal with WDW? Why is it struggling so (apparently) to get back to "normal"? I get it, Phoenix isn't WDW, and I am sure the demand for hospitality workers is higher in Orlando than in Phoenix, but my guess is the pool of candidates in Phoenix is a lot smaller too.

I felt like I was in a place that had its act together, compared to WDW where it seems every week there is another sign that things are not getting better. I am glad to see things creeping back to normal, but between maintenance issues, menu limitations, limited housekeeping service, it's as though WDW--which in the past represented to me the BEST in hospitality--is now way behind.

Am I wrong? (Always a possibility...)

Are supply chain issues really that bad for WDW?

Is TWDC leadership disengaged? Is it too focused on short-term margins? Has it abandoned the Parks Division as a pillar of its business? Does it care?

And more to the point, where does this end up? I keep waiting to see a media release from Josh D'Amaro along the lines of "Please accept our apologies. We have let things slip too far, and WE HEAR YOU. We value you as guests, and for that reason we are going back to FP+, we are improving our food offerings, and we are doing all we can to let you know that we value you." But I'm not holding my breath...

The pandemic certainly caused perturbations, but was it really THIS devastating?

I think WDW has fundamentally lost its way.

I agree. We had the same experience in Nashville in March 2022. The hotel was immaculate, fully staffed, fully open, full housekeeping. I have been watching some YouTube videos of the Disney College Program and people posting "Why I Left" and it seems these kids are expected to fill some of those roles of housekeeping, and they don't seem to last long in it.

 

[tarak]

I read many TripAdvisor reviews about the universal Hard Rock hotel, and most everyone is complaining of the lack of housekeeping there as well as disgusting rooms. Universal isn’t all roses - it’s a problem everywhere

I stayed at portofino bay in January with my daughter and her boyfriend. The staff at the front desk and hotel ticketing counter were amazing. The club lounge was not - the main benefit was access to an easy breakfast in the morning, as the food wasn’t great most days. One morning, we had breakfast sandwiches made with hamburger buns. It was just weird - like they realized last minute they needed some sort of sandwich but had run out of biscuits and croissants. The staff were disinterested, at best, with the exception of the young woman serving alcohol. LOL. We moved to AKL afterwards, and it was night and day. My daughter’s boyfriend has a nut allergy and I asked if they had any nut-free granola. The staff person checked their kitchen and, when she couldn’t find any, she went downstairs to Boma to look. Came back with a huge bowl of granola and she seemed happy to help. Maybe the club staff at universal were having a bad weekend or my expectations were too high. I’m sure someone else staying during that same period could easily have had the opposite experience. But at the end of the day, the main reason we stayed there was for the express pass, and that’s the main reason we’d go back.

 

[New Mouse]

I stayed at portofino bay in January with my daughter and her boyfriend. The staff at the front desk and hotel ticketing counter were amazing. The club lounge was not - the main benefit was access to an easy breakfast in the morning, as the food wasn’t great most days. One morning, we had breakfast sandwiches made with hamburger buns. It was just weird - like they realized last minute they needed some sort of sandwich but had run out of biscuits and croissants. The staff were disinterested, at best, with the exception of the young woman serving alcohol. LOL. We moved to AKL afterwards, and it was night and day. My daughter’s boyfriend has a nut allergy and I asked if they had any nut-free granola. The staff person checked their kitchen and, when she couldn’t find any, she went downstairs to Boma to look. Came back with a huge bowl of granola and she seemed happy to help. Maybe the club staff at universal were having a bad weekend or my expectations were too high. I’m sure someone else staying during that same period could easily have had the opposite experience. But at the end of the day, the main reason we stayed there was for the express pass, and that’s the main reason we’d go back.

Just curious, would the club staff at Universal (Loews) not assist with your allergy needs? The food quality certainly isn't something they control and to be honest, the food quality at both Disney and Universal club level is laughable and not worth the price.

 

[Grasshopper2016]

Wages are up 50-100% since pre-pandemic

Are you saying that the average Disney CM is making almost twice as much as they were in 2019? Or is this about the economy as a whole -- that the average American worker is making nearly double their salary from three years ago?

Where are you getting these numbers from? From what I can tell, most economists estimate that wages have increased by a little over 10% since 2019. (And real wages, adjusted for consumer cost inflation, have actually declined.)

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

Are you saying that the average Disney CM is making almost twice as much as they were in 2019? Or is this about the economy as a whole -- that the average American worker is making nearly double their salary from three years ago?

Where are you getting these numbers from? From what I can tell, most economists estimate that wages have increased by a little over 10% since 2019. (And real wages, adjusted for consumer cost inflation, have actually declined.)

Look at minimum wage - prepandemic lots of people made $7.25, the federal minimum wage. Now it’s nearly impossible to hire anyone below $15. Even a bump from $10-15 would be a 50% increase.

Most Disney workers are paid at the low end of the wage scale, and that is the population that has seen the biggest increases in wages. Higher wage earners haven’t seen the same kind of changes, which is holding down averages.

I’m not discounting that real (inflation adjusted) incomes have gone down. But nominal (stated or headline) wages for low income workers has gone up significantly.

 

[Grasshopper2016]

Thanks. I guess my question would then be, what is the actual wage increase at Disney? I know that Disney has generally paid very close to the bottom of the wage scale for most CMs. What were the CMs who were working the rides, manning the stores and ticket booths, etc., being paid in 2019? And what are they being paid now? (I believe that Disney has paid some hiring bonuses, which would also figure into your increased wage cost numbers.)

I guess that I would be surprised if they were actually making close to double what they were just three years ago. But I wouldn't be completely shocked.

 

[middlechild]

2019 Federal minimum $7.25, Florida minimum $8.46
https://floridajobs.org/docs/defaul...a-minimum-wage-history-2000-2020.pdf?sfvrsn=2
Current: Federal minimum $7.25, Florida minimum $10.00 (from Sept 2021, going to $11.00 Sept 2022)
https://hr.fsu.edu/article/floridas-minimum-wage-changes-through-2026

 

[RamblinWreck]

This is what happens when prices get too high wirhout the associated increase in value. Expectations go up, combined with less service being delivered = irate guests.

Disney prices were out of touch with reality before the pandemic. Now they are literally just drowning the companies reputation.

Quick fix - cap attendance and reduce prices and Increase pay.

The CEO and board doesn't have the guts or common sense to do it but that's what it would take to right the ship. I think we are witnessing the imminent collapse of Disney.

"Imminent collapse" sounds a little extreme and dramatic, or maybe even a lot extreme and dramatic.

Perhaps they are headed toward a period of decline. That's happened before. Collapse seems very, very unlikely.



I see a lot of people in this thread and others taking the interesting view of "No one wants to go to Disney World anymore. It's way too crowded!"

 

[middlechild]

More on wages, wonder how many workers at WDW are NOT covered by collective bargaining? The take away from this summary is during 2018 represented employees made less than $11 but now make $15, an increase of somewhere near 33%.
https://unitehere.org/press-releases/unions-at-disney-reach-agreement-on-historic-wage-increases/

"The new contract will raise the minimum pay to $11 in December 2018, to $12 in March 2019, to $13 in September 2019, to $14 in October 2020, and to $15 in October 2021. Employees whose current pay is above $10 will receive at least $4.75 in raises by October 2021, with $2.50 within the first six months. The new agreement will end on October 1, 2022. Members of the six affiliated Unions will vote on the new agreement on September 5 and 6.

The Service Trades Council Union is comprised of the following six unions:

IATSE Local 631: Costuming/Cosmetology, Entertainment Technicians
UFCW Local 1625: Merchandise, Banquets
TCU Local 1908: Monorails, Watercraft, Lifeguards, Bell Persons and Various Resort Cast Members
IBT Local 385: Busses, Laundries, Characters, Parking, Ranch
UNITE HERE Local 362: Custodial, Attractions, Vacation Planners
UNITE HERE Local 737: Housekeeping, Food & Beverage
"

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

2019 Federal minimum $7.25, Florida minimum $8.46
https://floridajobs.org/docs/defaul...a-minimum-wage-history-2000-2020.pdf?sfvrsn=2
Current: Federal minimum $7.25, Florida minimum $10.00 (from Sept 2021, going to $11.00 Sept 2022)
https://hr.fsu.edu/article/floridas-minimum-wage-changes-through-2026

It’s extremely hard to hire someone at minimum wage levels. Heck, our local HS babysitter charges $15/hour, up from $10 in 2019.

Also even if it isn’t a 50% wage increase, benefit costs have also gone up as well.

If “cheaper” foreign and college workers have to be replaced by more expensive “local” workers that also makes a difference.

And finally, if costs are “only” up 30%, it’s not like that makes all the other issues go away.

 

[New Mouse]

"Imminent collapse" sounds a little extreme and dramatic, or maybe even a lot extreme and dramatic.

Perhaps they are headed toward a period of decline. That's happened before. Collapse seems very, very unlikely.



I see a lot of people in this thread and others taking the interesting view of "No one wants to go to Disney World anymore. It's way too crowded!"

People also didn't think the stock would be dropping from 200 to 100 so quickly either.

At the end of the day they are not on good shape. If they were, Wall Street wouldn't be hammering them.

 

[Juliedoyle]

I just returned from 3 days at DL and DCA- our son moved to LA and since I was going to visit, we took the opportunity to enjoy Disney. I am an out of state AP at WDW and visited 3 times last year( normally go twice a year). Hadn’t been to DL in 15 years as we have always considered WDW home. Did not stay on property in Cali, due to much lower pricing off within the same distance, but always stay on property at WDW- normally Deluxe, but love love POFQ too. Stayed at Contemporary, Boardwalk and POFQ last year and services were definitely not anywhere near what we have come to know and love- Boardwalk was the only property that even came close and we had a major issue with check in( room still not ready at park close), but they made it right and were very kind and apologetic. Contemporary was almost embarrassing as I had a first timer with me and she was definitely not impressed, poor customer service, lack of greeting, no “welcome home”, no housekeeping, lack of merchandise etc etc. Cast members were not as wonderful as I had described, at Chef Mickeys the hostess even referred to the characters by the wrong name! I attended both the Halloween and Christmas parties, and Christmas was better, but $$$. Cancelled a Feb trip, but booked for June- 8 days. With all that said, DL and DCA were wonderful! Characters everywhere, shows and live performances everywhere, cast members were friendly, helpful, engaging and knowledgeable. Many were older, and excited to tell us about things going on- asked where we were from and actually had personal interactions with us numerous times! Mobil order there worked great- no long waits after you placed your order and normally able to find an available time when we wanted to eat, not hours before.- Parks were at current capacity, with no reservations available during our visit- I had reserved them well in advance, before announcements about MSEP and WOC returning- so crowds were huge for those and we got to see them!
I am now considering going back to Disneyland rather than WDW- much better value for my money- and their Genie + was fabulous- includes photo pass, lots of rides included, we were able to do everything we wanted to and several multiple times.
Why can’t WDW replicate the character, live entertainment, cast member interactions?

 

[mom2rtk]

I just returned from 3 days at DL and DCA- our son moved to LA and since I was going to visit, we took the opportunity to enjoy Disney. I am an out of state AP at WDW and visited 3 times last year( normally go twice a year). Hadn’t been to DL in 15 years as we have always considered WDW home. Did not stay on property in Cali, due to much lower pricing off within the same distance, but always stay on property at WDW- normally Deluxe, but love love POFQ too. Stayed at Contemporary, Boardwalk and POFQ last year and services were definitely not anywhere near what we have come to know and love- Boardwalk was the only property that even came close and we had a major issue with check in( room still not ready at park close), but they made it right and were very kind and apologetic. Contemporary was almost embarrassing as I had a first timer with me and she was definitely not impressed, poor customer service, lack of greeting, no “welcome home”, no housekeeping, lack of merchandise etc etc. Cast members were not as wonderful as I had described, at Chef Mickeys the hostess even referred to the characters by the wrong name! I attended both the Halloween and Christmas parties, and Christmas was better, but $$$. Cancelled a Feb trip, but booked for June- 8 days. With all that said, DL and DCA were wonderful! Characters everywhere, shows and live performances everywhere, cast members were friendly, helpful, engaging and knowledgeable. Many were older, and excited to tell us about things going on- asked where we were from and actually had personal interactions with us numerous times! Mobil order there worked great- no long waits after you placed your order and normally able to find an available time when we wanted to eat, not hours before.- Parks were at current capacity, with no reservations available during our visit- I had reserved them well in advance, before announcements about MSEP and WOC returning- so crowds were huge for those and we got to see them!
I am now considering going back to Disneyland rather than WDW- much better value for my money- and their Genie + was fabulous- includes photo pass, lots of rides included, we were able to do everything we wanted to and several multiple times.
Why can’t WDW replicate the character, live entertainment, cast member interactions?

WDW is the ATM of the company.

 

[DLgal]

Why can’t WDW replicate the character, live entertainment, cast member interactions?

There are a few reasons why Disneyland has better cast members, characters and live entertainment.

1. DL cast members get paid more than WDW cast members. They have better employee protections in CA vs FL, just based on state laws. The weather here is nicer. All that leads to happier cast members in general.

2. DL has more "legacy" cast members than FL. There is sense of pride and ownership of the parks in CA that is held by both the cast members and the residents of Southern CA who tend to make up the majority of park guests on any given day, which leads to...

3. ...better Character interactions, to include "roaming characters." This would never fly in WDW. The characters would be mobbed. In CA, we are used to letting characters roam around and "play" without bum rushing them. The guests are more laid back and more are frequent visitors, so there is no sense of urgency to meet characters. In addition, the year round mild weather makes it possible for characters to remain in costume longer without literally overheating, so they can be "on stage" in more elaborate ways.

4. The talent pool in the Los Angeles area is objectively better for entertainment type roles. This is why the live entertainment and face characters here are better. It's just a fact of being located near Hollywood. There is an endless pool of people to pick from and DL chooses the best they can get.

5. There is more of an expectation for nighttime parades and entertainment, again, from those locals and passholders. Disney NEEDS to give them a reason to keep coming back, because they are the main attendees of the parks. When the locals stop coming, Disneyland has a problem. They were likely seeing "soft" attendance numbers for late spring and summer and so they pushed the return of nighttime entertainment to the forefront.

 

[Upatnoon]

It's easy to look at one thing, or one anecdote to paint an entire picture, but for a massive business like Disneyworld, it's far more complex.

Disney and its parks are an interesting study. They have to keep a foot in the past to reinforce the nostalgia of some guests, while moving forward as society changes.

All the while they have to keep making money -- and more money -- to satisfy shareholders.

The shifts in the economy and society can often be seen first at Disney because they need to stay ahead of the curve.

Sometimes they are on target, sometimes not, but there is generally a purpose in the decisions they make.

 

[Juliedoyle]

There are a few reasons why Disneyland has better cast members, characters and live entertainment.

1. DL cast members get paid more than WDW cast members. They have better employee protections in CA vs FL, just based on state laws. The weather here is nicer. All that leads to happier cast members in general.

2. DL has more "legacy" cast members than FL. There is sense of pride and ownership of the parks in CA that is held by both the cast members and the residents of Southern CA who tend to make up the majority of park guests on any given day, which leads to...

3. ...better Character interactions, to include "roaming characters." This would never fly in WDW. The characters would be mobbed. In CA, we are used to letting characters roam around and "play" without bum rushing them. The guests are more laid back and more are frequent visitors, so there is no sense of urgency to meet characters. In addition, the year round mild weather makes it possible for characters to remain in costume longer without literally overheating, so they can be "on stage" in more elaborate ways.

4. The talent pool in the Los Angeles area is objectively better for entertainment type roles. This is why the live entertainment and face characters here are better. It's just a fact of being located near Hollywood. There is an endless pool of people to pick from and DL chooses the best they can get.

5. There is more of an expectation for nighttime parades and entertainment, again, from those locals and passholders. Disney NEEDS to give them a reason to keep coming back, because they are the main attendees of the parks. When the locals stop coming, Disneyland has a problem. They were likely seeing "soft" attendance numbers for late spring and summer and so they pushed the return of nighttime entertainment to the forefront.

Thanks for your response- still wish WDW could do just some of it! We had lot’s of live entertainment, but that still haven’t brought the citizens of Main Street or Hollywood back- I know they lost a lot of talent due to COVID closures and restrictions, but it is past time to have everything back- we are paying more and more for less and less!
Disneyland was fabulous!