What would you do

[LSUmiss]

Agree that nobody (sadly) is questioning whether or not miscreants like this exist and are everywhere, even right next door. It’s the scenario of taking pictures in the garage and the mom who is perfectly lovely to people of other ethnicities that’s a bit hard to believe.

Actually I think that’s the take away that I get from luvsjack’s pp. There are card-carrying KKK members in her area & no one knows who they are b/c they don’t advertise it. As far as taking pic, I could easily pretend like I was looking for something in my phone while taking quick pics of someone’s garage if it were open. As far as mom treating the little girl ok, she may have thought she was white. Maybe she is on her hate group message board right now asking what she should do now that she found out her dtr’s friend is not white?? She may also be like what the pp described & be less outspoken about her beliefs. She even maybe ok with her kids playing with a diverse group on the playground but not marrying someone outside her race etc. I don’t think all racists are out starting race riots & burning crosses in the yard. That’s what is scary is that they can literally be the ppl next door. What I find interesting is that ppl find this so hard to believe. The more skeptical posters also seem to be the ones who routinely discount other instances of racism that have been brought up on other threads. I remember being challenged what I brought how many times I’ve heard ppl use the N word here. I think if you live in a less diverse area, you don’t see this kind of blatant display of racism so it’s hard to believe it exists. You might think you know your neighbors, but sometimes you really don’t.

 

[luvsJack]

Please don't deign to determine what I know. People need to say what they mean. I take words at face value.

If, if, if. If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be my grandfather. We have zero evidence that these people are any part of any group, or that they have any online activity.

Agree on the slavery, but the confederate flag absolutely represents the Confederacy.

Well, if you couldn't figure it out, perhaps you should look more into those words. It wasn't hard to see what she meant.

You and that if statement. LOL We have no evidence so the proper word is IF. This whole entire thread is based on an IF: IF what the OP says is true, IF his wife actually saw these items, IF these folks have them because they believe in what they represent. All of it is IF.

I didn't say that it did not.

 

[kaytieeldr]

You and that if statement

It's intended to indicate that iits fruitless to speculate about counterfactual situations given the complete absence of supporting information. "If pigs had wings (they don't) they could fly." "If wishes were horses (they're not) then beggars would ride"

We have no evidence so the proper word is IF.

Sure, the proper word is if. The amount of speculation based on assumptions, personal opinions, and zero evidence doesn't even support the use of the word.

This whole entire thread is based on an IF: IF what the OP says is true, IF his wife actually saw these items, IF these folks have them because they believe in what they represent. All of it is IF.

You're doubting the OP? On what basis. Heck, he hasn't been back. Maybe he never will be, if he exists.

 

[luvsJack]

I wouldn't deem it as hate speech on its own either. I think it's one of many things that can represent a person, but I do give it more weight because it's something that person chooses to visibly associate with them (unlike many other things, like t-shirts or subscriptions to magazines or donations to organizations, flags are attached to one's home or vehicle, and have more obvious permanence). It would be something I would assume a person considered pretty strongly to represent them, and again, you rarely hear what qualities of the flag people associate with beyond the negative ones that many find the flag to represent. Maybe if that was more mainstream knowledge, people would feel differently, but I've rarely seen any.

Either way, you do get a say, in that you get to choose who you associate with based on how they represent themselves to the world.

You have to realize that its going to mean different things to different people.

The "redneck" 20 somethings in the big yee-yee trucks that I mentioned earlier? To them it represents their way of life--dirt roads, country music, the creek, bon fires, drinking on Saturday, church on Sunday. And a certain amount of rebellion.

To the folks living the antebellum era home , it may represent their great-great-great grandfather that fought with the confederacy.

I don't have one and never have flown one but back when my oldest son was 12, he played in the Dixie Youth Baseball World Series. We had to travel to Georgia to play. To represent our state, and that they were the state champs, we put state flags on our cars. Our state flag includes the stars and bars. We were told several times as we traveled to be careful because of that state flag. We explained several times that it is not the confederate flag but our state flag and they said they knew and that was the problem. At first we talked about taking the flags off the cars but you know what? we felt a little of that redneck rebellion. We weren't making any political, racist or any other kind of statement. We were simply saying we were proud of our kids for being part of the baseball team that was the best in our state. And we continued to be proud of them and the state they represented. What we did resent was the suggestion that we would all be judged by those little flags on our cars, rather than who we are. And that is just as wrong as judging someone for any number of reasons.

 

[luvsJack]

It's intended to indicate that iits fruitless to speculate about counterfactual situations given the complete absence of supporting information. "If pigs had wings (they don't) they could fly." "If wishes were horses (they're not) then beggars would ride"

Sure, the proper word is if. The amount of speculation based on assumptions, personal opinions, and zero evidence doesn't even support the use of the word.

You're doubting the OP? On what basis. Heck, he hasn't been back. Maybe he never will be, if he exists.

I know what the phrase means. You use it in almost every thread you post in.

The proper word is "if" but speculation doesn't support the word "if". That doesn't make sense.

Several people have doubted the OP. He hasn't been back which is one reason that the doubt exists. Most would have come back to defend themselves and whether they are telling the truth.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I like your post Aprilgail!
My DH was commissioned at one time. And while I know that there would have been zero risk or threat to your child. I would respect and accept any difference of opinion. Just as there might be other differences of opinions and viewpoints.
It is when it comes to assumptions and prejudice and hatred... confrontation... battle lines. That is where differences become a problem.
About the other above posts... again, no comment. .

 

[skyblue17]

You have to realize that its going to mean different things to different people.

The "redneck" 20 somethings in the big yee-yee trucks that I mentioned earlier? To them it represents their way of life--dirt roads, country music, the creek, bon fires, drinking on Saturday, church on Sunday. And a certain amount of rebellion.

To the folks living the antebellum era home , it may represent their great-great-great grandfather that fought with the confederacy.

I don't have one and never have flown one but back when my oldest son was 12, he played in the Dixie Youth Baseball World Series. We had to travel to Georgia to play. To represent our state, and that they were the state champs, we put state flags on our cars. Our state flag includes the stars and bars. We were told several times as we traveled to be careful because of that state flag. We explained several times that it is not the confederate flag but our state flag and they said they knew and that was the problem. At first we talked about taking the flags off the cars but you know what? we felt a little of that redneck rebellion. We weren't making any political, racist or any other kind of statement. We were simply saying we were proud of our kids for being part of the baseball team that was the best in our state. And we continued to be proud of them and the state they represented. What we did resent was the suggestion that we would all be judged by those little flags on our cars, rather than who we are. And that is just as wrong as judging someone for any number of reasons.

Sure, but again, the negative qualities tied to it are no secret. Those people might not agree that the flag represents those qualities more than others, but it still does to a LOT of people, and unless you are living under a rock, you are signing off on those qualities being applied to you by flying the flag. If you don't want those qualities applied to you, there are plenty of other ways to show how country you are.

Just curious what you felt rebellious of in flying a state flag? It kind of reads like a "knowing people might be upset about this made us want to do it MORE," which, you do you I suppose.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Luvs, I have another “iF”. Maybe the neighbors had those things hanging in their garage if they wanted to decorate their walls and thought that they were “pretty”.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I will answer for myself, it that had been me.... it would have been to rebel against censorship and the problem of Political Correctness.

Remember my hypothetical about displaying your State colors while in another State. The very idea that this would be considered so negatively and create a problem or issue, THAT is a problem.

The whole viewpoint that if somebody is different than me, I am right. I should confront. Prejudice and hatred.

 

[skyblue17]

Personally, I think it's a bad idea to have that flag on a state flag, as it opens up situations like these.

However, rebelling against political correctness is kind of circular, no? "These people are so upset and are speaking out on it, that makes me annoyed/frustrated/upset, so I am going to speak out on their speaking out!"

Also, what censorship? Censorship would be telling people they can't fly the flag at all. Not liking how people interpret your flag is not being censored.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Still not on the right track. This poster said that they were “warned”. As in you should take that thing off, and not display it. That is censorship. No way that it isn’t.
This is about that censorship.
Has nothing to do with who likes or doesn’t like.

Maybe you are not really getting it or whatever?
Maybe you do feel that an individual / family should live their life according to what somebody else believes or likes. Or “Feels”.

I thought that was what was considered to be an evil. Like, Live and let live.

Is it now “live and let live but don’t ever say or believe or do anything that I don’t like”.

Beware the double edged sword.

 

[luvsJack]

Sure, but again, the negative qualities tied to it are no secret. Those people might not agree that the flag represents those qualities more than others, but it still does to a LOT of people, and unless you are living under a rock, you are signing off on those qualities being applied to you by flying the flag. If you don't want those qualities applied to you, there are plenty of other ways to show how country you are.

Just curious what you felt rebellious of in flying a state flag? It kind of reads like a "knowing people might be upset about this made us want to do it MORE," which, you do you I suppose.

Not upset. Offended. BIG difference there.

So we should be ok with being judged because of where we come from? A little pot calling the kettle black, don't you think?

We had those little flags on our cars to represent our state and our team. Every other team also had their state flags on their cars. We love our state and were proud of our kids and we had just as much right to be as every other person headed to that tournament.

If someone chose to get offended over a state flag, that is on them, not us. They can make the choice to think about what is happening. The car says "world series or bust", it says MS State Champs and has baseballs drawn on every window and someone might get offended because of the state flag? Sorry, that is a choice. And they can just choose to get unoffended just as easily.


As to the other flag, you are basically saying its ok to judge someone based on a shirt they are wearing, a sticker on their truck, etc.

What happened to judging a person by who they are not what you see? Doesn't that hold true for everyone?

 

[luvsJack]

Personally, I think it's a bad idea to have that flag on a state flag, as it opens up situations like these.

However, rebelling against political correctness is kind of circular, no? "These people are so upset and are speaking out on it, that makes me annoyed/frustrated/upset, so I am going to speak out on their speaking out!"

Also, what censorship? Censorship would be telling people they can't fly the flag at all. Not liking how people interpret your flag is not being censored.

No one said they didn't like it. We were told that it could be a problem down the road (In Georgia, I guess because we were told this in Alabama).

We weren't using the flag to "speak out" on anything. We were using it to represent the state we come from. Its our state flag. We didn't choose it, it just is what it is.

 

[skyblue17]

Perhaps they were warned because people do not take kindly to the confederate flag in that area? I agree, it doesn't make a lot of sense since it was the state flag, and anyone taking offense to the state flag is probably being willfully obtuse. I still don't think it's censorship. Choosing to do something you know might be controversial (not this example, but in general) opens you up to consequences. Why is your right to fly a flag others find controversial more important than the right others have to speak out on it?

I think everyone should live their life as they see fit. Doesn't basically every decision get based on what we like, believe or feel? At some point it turns into who's likes, beliefs and feelings are deemed more important, no, or who's carry more weight?

 

[Wishing on a star]

Luvs, that is my whole take here. Those that are okay with open judging, prejudice, etc.... but only when that is “their side”. Because surely we are in the right.
That doesn’t work.
EVERYBODY feels that they are the one who is right.

 

[luvsJack]

Perhaps they were warned because people do not take kindly to the confederate flag in that area? I agree, it doesn't make a lot of sense since it was the state flag, and anyone taking offense to the state flag is probably being willfully obtuse. I still don't think it's censorship. Choosing to do something you know might be controversial (not this example, but in general) opens you up to consequences. Why is your right to fly a flag others find controversial more important than the right others have to speak out on it?

I think everyone should live their life as they see fit. Doesn't basically every decision get based on what we like, believe or feel? At some point it turns into who's likes, beliefs and feelings are deemed more important, no, or who's carry more weight?

Why is their need for controversy more important than our right to fly our state flag? It goes both ways.

 

[skyblue17]

No one said they didn't like it. We were told that it could be a problem down the road (In Georgia, I guess because we were told this in Alabama).

We weren't using the flag to "speak out" on anything. We were using it to represent the state we come from. Its our state flag. We didn't choose it, it just is what it is.

Ok, and you flew it anyway, and was it a problem? Did anyone care?

We had those little flags on our cars to represent our state and our team. Every other team also had their state flags on their cars. We love our state and were proud of our kids and we had just as much right to be as every other person headed to that tournament.

Of course! But this is really only a valid example if someone actually did something to you "down the road." One person saying "oh that flag might cause problems" isn't really indicative of anything. Is there a rash of judgement of the Georgia state flag that you're aware of?

As to the other flag, you are basically saying its ok to judge someone based on a shirt they are wearing, a sticker on their truck, etc.

If that shirt or sticker has language or a statement that reflects someone's views, seems like they are pretty okay with people taking those things into account when they are out in public, no? I'm a firm believer in that you get to choose how you represent yourself, as those representations are sometimes the only imprint you make on people you meet. People are free to represent themselves however they'd like, but complaining that people take something away from your representation seems kind of like choosing to be upset about something that you can just as easily let go.

 

[skyblue17]

Why is their need for controversy more important than our right to fly our state flag? It goes both ways.

I specifically said not in your example.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Why is your right to fly a flag others find controversial more important than the right others have to speak out ....

It is called basic human rights and freedom of speech. That should NEVER, EVER, be sacrificed just because something might be controversial.
It really is that simple.
Perhaps it is clear that there are those, even those that have had to fight and die for something that was / is considered controversial, who just don’t get it.

Very sad.

 

[skyblue17]

It is called basic human rights and freedom of speech. That should NEVER, EVER, be sacrificed because because something might be controversial.
It really is that simple.
Perhaps it is clear that there are those, even those that have had to fight and die for something that was / is considered controversial, who just don’t get it.

Please explain to me how someone saying they are offended sacrifices your freedom of speech. They aren't calling up the government to get the flag forcibly removed, are they? Why can't the person with the flag just stop being so upset about every little thing, ya know?