Death of relationships.

[punkin]

I don't think anyone said other relationship choices are substandard. I personally enjoy marriage. I want the same happiness for my children. If you're happy with your choices, I am happy for you.

 

[luvsJack]

Lately I have had the pleasure of being around a lot of 20 and 30 somethings. Some married, some not. But there does seem to be a whole lot of not necessarily thinking relationships are forever or even should be. Single people who don't respect another's relationship, married folks that don't respect their own relationship. Several of them have commented that they want a relationship like Dh and I have.

I finally told them all, our relationship did not just happen. We didn't start out like we are now. It took being committed to it. Staying and working through the hard times. Being partners in all things related to the relationship. And it's still not perfect by any means. But we are best friends as well as husband and wife and we talk to each other through everything even when we don't agree.

I see a whole lot of wanting an instant relationship and wanting it to be whatever they imagine to be the perfect one. It just doesn't work that way.

 

[DawnM]

I'm not sure why this is something to be thankful for? As a woman in her early 50's, I am thankful that young people have more choices today. The traditional marriage and family route does not work for everyone. Your answer seems to imply that traditional marriage and kids is the gold standard that everyone should want, and all other relationship choices are somehow substandard.

Because it is what I value greatly. I believe it is the best and I am not going to make apologies for it.

Yes there are times for divorce (abuse, etc...) but ideally commitment means to love and cherish until death do you part.

 

[Micca]

Do you think committed relationships are on the decline? Is it a generational thing or across the board? Why?

I'd chime-in but not sure what I can contribute. I don't know many younger people but the ones I am exposed to seem to be living in a pretty traditional way--getting married/having kids/get a house, etc. I do believe that some folks who have a bad experience pretty much give up on anything long term and make peace with living life that way.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Regarding marriage. I have no scientific evidence to back this up but it’s just a theory of mine. Women now have careers. Their own money. Independence. Divorce isn't so taboo. So now when a woman is mistreated, cheated on, made to feel worthless....she leaves. She doesn’t have to stay like our grandmothers did. Women have choices now.

Definitely true, but sadly I'm also seeing an increase in women's "midlife crisis" where women are bailing out on basically solid marriages to good men, much as men have stereotypically done in the past (and present).

Having the option to leave is a good thing. Using that option as THE reason for leaving, not so much.

 

[superme80]

I have friends in their late 20s and 30s who want to be married. Most of the men do not want to settle down. I don't know if relationships are on decline. What I do know is that less men want to settle down in their 20s and sometimes 30s.

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

I have friends in their late 20s and 30s who want to be married. Most of the men do not want to settle down. I don't know if relationships are on decline. What I do know is that less men want to settle down in their 20s and sometimes 30s.

It sometimes makes me think our grandmas may have been right about the whole cow/milk thing.

 

[Christine]

I have friends in their late 20s and 30s who want to be married. Most of the men do not want to settle down. I don't know if relationships are on decline. What I do know is that less men want to settle down in their 20s and sometimes 30s.

This is what I am seeing for the most part also.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

I have friends in their late 20s and 30s who want to be married. Most of the men do not want to settle down. I don't know if relationships are on decline. What I do know is that less men want to settle down in their 20s and sometimes 30s.

There is research that shows this age group is missing/postponing a lot of those “adult milestones” due to student loan debt and lower wages/less job security at the same age as previous generations. This may have something to with it.

I think there is still societal pressure on women to be married by 30ish and not to have kids too late. I also think there’s still pressure on men to be the breadwinner and provider for their families. I think this plays a role in the disconnect. We’ve come a long way to try to even the playing field and challenge past cultural norms but we still have a ways to go.

I’m just speculating based on the anecdotal data from this thread that it’s men who don’t want to settle down.

 

[jevs]

I see a whole lot of wanting an instant relationship and wanting it to be whatever they imagine to be the perfect one. It just doesn't work that way.

This is what I’m seeing and hearing here as well. It seems that if there isn’t instant chemistry or whatever on the first date then you’re dismissed. Can you really get to know a person in such a short time to be able to make any decisions about who they are?

There is research that shows this age group is missing/postponing a lot of those “adult milestones” due to student loan debt and lower wages/less job security at the same age as previous generations. This may have something to with it.

I think there is still societal pressure on women to be married by 30ish and not to have kids too late. I also think there’s still pressure on men to be the breadwinner and provider for their families. I think this plays a role in the disconnect. We’ve come a long way to try to even the playing field and challenge past cultural norms but we still have a ways to go.

I’m just speculating based on the anecdotal data from this thread that it’s men who don’t want to settle down.

I’m seeing it across both men/women. And it’s not the young ones I’m seeing but those in their 30s and 40s.

 

[jevs]

Who knows if relationships are on the decline, and who cares what any of us “think” or how it “seems?” Any discussion like this is just that, without any concrete numbers to prove anyone’s feelings.

The plural of “anecdote” is not “data.”

Sorry, I thought this was the CB, where all matter of things can be discussed with and without statistics/research and personal opinion.

I’ll get the mods to move it to the appropriate board.

 

[Christine]

This is what I’m seeing and hearing here as well. It seems that if there isn’t instant chemistry or whatever on the first date then you’re dismissed. Can you really get to know a person in such a short time to be able to make any decisions about who they are?

I agree with you about the perception of the instant chemistry. I think social media and dating apps and whatever else are pushing that. I'm sorry but you just *can't* really know how you feel about a person on a random coffee date.

Every Sunday, in the Washington Post Magazine insert they do a piece called "Date Lab." People submit themselves into "Date Lab" to be set up on a blind date. Whoever is in charge tries to put people together that are very similar. They pay for them to go out dinner for several hours, talk. They have them rate the date and write it up. They then track whether they went for a second time. Honestly some of these people seem like they have a fine time at dinner (some don't), seem to be well matched but they rate the date a "3 out of 5" because they can't see a romance and "the person would just be a good friend." I've rolled my eyes so hard over these that I've just had to stop reading.

 

[IAHFTPT]

Sorry, I thought this was the CB, where all matter of things can be discussed with and without statistics/research and personal opinion.

I’ll get the mods to move it to the appropriate board.

Time to apply for your research grant.

 

[jevs]

Time to apply for your research grant.

No hope of a research grant given I’ve already been unethical by not getting everyone to sign a consent form prior to conducting my research.

 

[IAHFTPT]

No hope of a research grant given I’ve already been unethical by not getting everyone to sign a consent form prior to conducting my research.

Well, time to move this to the "Unethical Research" forum then. Better luck next time.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I agree with you about the perception of the instant chemistry. I think social media and dating apps and whatever else are pushing that. I'm sorry but you just *can't* really know how you feel about a person on a random coffee date.

Every Sunday, in the Washington Post Magazine insert they do a piece called "Date Lab." People submit themselves into "Date Lab" to be set up on a blind date. Whoever is in charge tries to put people together that are very similar. They pay for them to go out dinner for several hours, talk. They have them rate the date and write it up. They then track whether they went for a second time. Honestly some of these people seem like they have a fine time at dinner (some don't), seem to be well matched but they rate the date a "3 out of 5" because they can't see a romance and "the person would just be a good friend." I've rolled my eyes so hard over these that I've just had to stop reading.

I do have to say that I have to agree about chemistry. No, you can't tell from one date if a person is compatible with you in every way. But, if there's no spark, it's not likely there ever will be.

 

[punkin]

I agree with you about the perception of the instant chemistry. I think social media and dating apps and whatever else are pushing that. I'm sorry but you just *can't* really know how you feel about a person on a random coffee date.

Every Sunday, in the Washington Post Magazine insert they do a piece called "Date Lab." People submit themselves into "Date Lab" to be set up on a blind date. Whoever is in charge tries to put people together that are very similar. They pay for them to go out dinner for several hours, talk. They have them rate the date and write it up. They then track whether they went for a second time. Honestly some of these people seem like they have a fine time at dinner (some don't), seem to be well matched but they rate the date a "3 out of 5" because they can't see a romance and "the person would just be a good friend." I've rolled my eyes so hard over these that I've just had to stop reading.

I hate that feature. Seriously! What spark can you have after only one date? My DH was a complete dufus on our first date...he got better with age. Lol.

 

[tcufrog]

The first time I met dh he was drunk off his butt at a party (I was a designated driver so I was sober.) and tried to hit on me very ineptly. I wasn't impressed at all to put it mildly. We later became friends and he eventually asked me out. I said yes because he offered to cook me dinner and that's not common in college. If I had insisted on instant Disney princess movie chemistry we never would have gotten together. I think social media has encouraged unrealistic expectations in all aspects of life. People brag without showing the daily reality.

 

[Colleen27]

Definitely true, but sadly I'm also seeing an increase in women's "midlife crisis" where women are bailing out on basically solid marriages to good men, much as men have stereotypically done in the past (and present).

Having the option to leave is a good thing. Using that option as THE reason for leaving, not so much.

I've seen that too... but to be fair, abuse isn't the only form of mistreatment and women my age often feel very taken advantage of, especially if the division of household and child-rearing responsibilities is very out of balance (as studies show it still is most of the time). Most of the middle aged women I know who left basically good men did so after years of feeling like a doormat or a household servant and many futile attempts to agitate for a better balance at home, and they did so not out of any sense of midlife crisis but because they got through years and years by thinking "It'll get easier when... (the baby sleeps through the night/the kids are potty trained/the youngest starts school/the oldest can help with the driving) and finally realized it isn't going to change.

I agree with you about the perception of the instant chemistry. I think social media and dating apps and whatever else are pushing that. I'm sorry but you just *can't* really know how you feel about a person on a random coffee date.

Every Sunday, in the Washington Post Magazine insert they do a piece called "Date Lab." People submit themselves into "Date Lab" to be set up on a blind date. Whoever is in charge tries to put people together that are very similar. They pay for them to go out dinner for several hours, talk. They have them rate the date and write it up. They then track whether they went for a second time. Honestly some of these people seem like they have a fine time at dinner (some don't), seem to be well matched but they rate the date a "3 out of 5" because they can't see a romance and "the person would just be a good friend." I've rolled my eyes so hard over these that I've just had to stop reading.

I think that's often code for not feeling physical attraction, and if that isn't there to start it isn't likely to turn up later. There's nothing wrong with having preferences for what one finds sexually appealing, or with acknowledging that there's no point in pursuing a dating/romantic relationship with a nice person who you just can't see yourself becoming intimate with.

 

[punkin]

I've seen that too... but to be fair, abuse isn't the only form of mistreatment and women my age often feel very taken advantage of, especially if the division of household and child-rearing responsibilities is very out of balance (as studies show it still is most of the time). Most of the middle aged women I know who left basically good men did so after years of feeling like a doormat or a household servant and many futile attempts to agitate for a better balance at home, and they did so not out of any sense of midlife crisis but because they got through years and years by thinking "It'll get easier when... (the baby sleeps through the night/the kids are potty trained/the youngest starts school/the oldest can help with the driving) and finally realized it isn't going to change.

You're right that the load is never even and it is never going to change. However, that is no reason to leave a perfectly good man and shoulder the entire load alone.