Riviera Pricing Released

[TexasChick123]

Arrived by FedEx.

Also, forgot to mention, in multiple locations, in bold print, they spelled out the changes in resale and warned you that it could affect the resale value of the contract. I thought it was interesting as many people felt Disney might just slide this issue through and unsuspecting direct buyers in the future will never know this has occurred. To me, they took the opposite approach. They appeared to be very concerned that people might later sue/complain they had resale problems and wanted to make sure that disclosure was highly visible. I am guessing guides will not make it a "prime topic" but the legal folks as Disney certainly wanted to make sure people saw it.

Thank you for sharing. I want to really read the restriction language as a lot of us think they’re going to charge resale Riviera buyers some type of fee to book elsewhere at 7 months. I haven’t gotten my documents yet, and I may not get them this week. I’ll read through it all and report back on my thoughts once I do.

And I was told they try to overestimate the MF’s for the first few years so that they can offer a credit rather than a sharp increase when their numbers are off.

 

[aoconnor]

They estimated transportation to be $1.3362 per point. So that alone represents a large percentage of the MF difference.

Wow.. that's definitely the main reason why. Poly and VGF are $0.65 and $0.46 respectively and both share the monorail. I'm surprised that Riviera would be over double, especially since the Skyliner also services CBR, Pop, and AoA which have over 5,000 rooms combined (large base to spread costs over).

 

[TexasChick123]

Wow.. that's definitely the main reason why. Poly and VGF are $0.65 and $0.46 respectively and both share the monorail. I'm surprised that Riviera would over double, especially since the Skyliner also services CBR, Pop, and AoA which have over 5,000 rooms combined.

My guide specifically told me the gondola portion was high because it is a new system, and they expect that portion of the fees to decrease over time. I would think a lot of that fee goes into the initial extensive training of people to operate the gondolas.

 

[aoconnor]

My guide specifically told me the gondola portion was high because it is a new system, and they expect that portion of the fees to decrease over time. I would think a lot of that fee goes into the initial extensive training of people to operate the gondolas.

Definitely possible. Gondolas are among the cheapest transportation systems to operate per passenger which is why they chose it.

 

[ljmiii]

Shortly before the restrictions went into place I was able to buy 350 VB points spread over two contracts for the exact same dollar amount as 100 points at DRR. I am currently paying about $1 more per point in maintenance fees. The DRR owner has 25 more years on the contract. The DRR owner can book at the Riviera four months ahead of me. Those are the only meaningful differences in our points (perks excluded for the sake of this conversation for obvious reasons). At the 7 month mark and at any other resort my dollar bought me 3.5 times as many points as their dollar. Does that sound balanced? Does that reflect the operations of a healthy timeshare system?

In a word, "Yes". You omit the #1 reason VB (and HHI) resale points are so inexpensive - the very real possibility that they will be 'worthless' to an owner wanting to stay at WDW.

I run into this all the time on other more 'newbie' focused forums. 'I love Disney and I've heard DVC is cool and that you can stay at any resort. Why shouldn't I buy where it's cheapest." And the answer from me and many others is that if you are looking for a value purchase, good arguments can be made for OKW extended, SSR, and AKV. But only buy VB is you are flexible on villa size and season. Or if you have no problem telling your wife that your family can't go to Disney during school break because the DVC points you've spent thousands of dollars on are worthless.

RTU, points charts, themeing, desirable 'special' rooms, overall size, and many other factors play into the price at each resort. But 'Is it at WDW' and 'Is it in close proximity to MK or EPCOT/HS are what really counts. If you add together the risk of not getting a room at WDW, less than half the years left on the contract, and the likelyhood of much higher MFs for the next 20+ years then a 3:1 ratio sounds about right.


As an aside, VGC and Aulani are special cases. VGC because of proximity to DL (and small size), Aulani because to West Coast owners being able to book prime rooms/weeks at 11 months matters...and will matter more when Aulani sells out.

 

[vint43]

Thank you for sharing. I want to really read the restriction language as a lot of us think they’re going to charge resale Riviera buyers some type of fee to book elsewhere at 7 months. I haven’t gotten my documents yet, and I may not get them this week. I’ll read through it all and report back on my thoughts once I do.

8. DVD Reserved Rights

In addition to any other reserved right, DVD reserves the right, as set forth in the Membership Agreement and the DVC Resort Agreement, to prohibit or limit persons who do not purchase an Ownership Interest directly from DVD, or from an approved seller, from participating in other aspects of Club membership or benefits, including prohibiting or limiting access to other DVC Resorts through the DVC Reservation Component or restricting, limiting, or changing certain Home Resort Reservation Component or DVC Reservation Component reservation features. Such prohibitions or restrictions may adversely affect PURCHASER's ability to resell PURCHASER's Ownership Interest or at a value that PURCHASER might seek.


Basically, to me, they are saying they can limit people who purchase via resale in many ways (including changing the Home Resort reservation process) and they want the Purchaser to realize it might affect the value of the ownership interest.

They do not spell out what they plan to do - they just reserve the right to do just about anything in this contract.

 

[ljmiii]

2- The line item budget for 2019 for transportation is the second largest line item on the budget...They estimated transportation to be $1.3362 per point.

Someone's got to pay for that gondola! I would guess WDW charges DVC a hefty fee - probably higher on a per room basis than it charges itself for CB, Pop and Animation. I wonder if the charge is per room/villa, per allowable guest, per station, or some other metric.

 

[crvetter]

My guide specifically told me the gondola portion was high because it is a new system, and they expect that portion of the fees to decrease over time. I would think a lot of that fee goes into the initial extensive training of people to operate the gondolas.

I would think it is fairly high too because it has to pay for bus transportation to AK and MK that will likely operate independent of any resort, but I see it dropping some in the future because of the efficiency of the Skyliner. I can't imagine them putting DRR with CBR for buses to those parks. If they do they seriously diminish the value add of a deluxe. I'm not entirely surprised the transportation component is taking up a lot of the budget as that was my expectation it would.

 

[Matty B13]

Someone's got to pay for that gondola! I would guess WDW charges DVC a hefty fee - probably higher on a per room basis than it charges itself for CB, Pop and Animation. I wonder if the charge is per room/villa, per allowable guest, per station, or some other metric.

This is why DVC resorts were placed in Poly and WL (CCV), because they had a captive set of owners to pay for the upkeep.

 

[Mumof4mice]

My guide specifically told me the gondola portion was high because it is a new system, and they expect that portion of the fees to decrease over time. I would think a lot of that fee goes into the initial extensive training of people to operate the gondolas.

​

I would think it is fairly high too because it has to pay for bus transportation to AK and MK that will likely operate independent of any resort, but I see it dropping some in the future because of the efficiency of the Skyliner. I can't imagine them putting DRR with CBR for buses to those parks. If they do they seriously diminish the value add of a deluxe. I'm not entirely surprised the transportation component is taking up a lot of the budget as that was my expectation it would.

Transportation cost being so high is interesting. It's standard practice for developers to roll as much of the capital costs into maintenance and repairs (which are deductible, or in this case can be charged to members). I'll bet the Skyliners was completed months ago on Disney's books. It is now "in operation" - training staff and conducting testing, while "maintaining" the landscaping and terminal buildings. Normally the "maintenance cost" drops after a while. I'd love to see the break down for the construction and maintenance/operation of the gondolas.

 

[Madame]

8. DVD Reserved Rights

In addition to any other reserved right, DVD reserves the right, as set forth in the Membership Agreement and the DVC Resort Agreement, to prohibit or limit persons who do not purchase an Ownership Interest directly from DVD, or from an approved seller, from participating in other aspects of Club membership or benefits, including prohibiting or limiting access to other DVC Resorts through the DVC Reservation Component or restricting, limiting, or changing certain Home Resort Reservation Component or DVC Reservation Component reservation features. Such prohibitions or restrictions may adversely affect PURCHASER's ability to resell PURCHASER's Ownership Interest or at a value that PURCHASER might seek.


Basically, to me, they are saying they can limit people who purchase via resale in many ways (including changing the Home Resort reservation process) and they want the Purchaser to realize it might affect the value of the ownership interest.

They do not spell out what they plan to do - they just reserve the right to do just about anything in this contract.

This is giving them the right to change the HR booking window for resalers who can only stay at DRR, right? I wouldn’t touch this resort as a resale buyer.

 

[Katie L]

This is giving them the right to change the HR booking window for resalers who can only stay at DRR, right? I wouldn’t touch this resort as a resale buyer.

That's exactly how I read it. Sure. I'll buy. For $50 a point or less. Lolz.

 

[vint43]

Total side note.

When we purchased GFV we got a really nice carry bag with the contracts. We use it all the time.

This time, with the Riviera, it was a backpack. I am not sure if this is new or not!

However, it is not particularly well made (plastic everything, light weight & thin metal hardware, printed not stitched graphics, etc.).

Frankly, the pic looks better than the reality.

It is Ok, just not great. It is also pretty small. Almost looks like a kids backpack to me.

Ok, not a life changer! However, to me, to maintain a premium brand everything matters.

I think they come up a little short on the quality of the backpack IMO

 

[Drewferin]

I completely agree those backpacks leave you wondering whom approved these for direct sales. A high quality bag might have only cost them $20 more in their cost.

My AKV 25 point direct in Dec was Blue and Gray so they have changed colors it appears.

 

[TexasChick123]

Total side note.

When we purchased GFV we got a really nice carry bag with the contracts. We use it all the time.

This time, with the Riviera, it was a backpack. I am not sure if this is new or not!

However, it is not particularly well made (plastic everything, light weight & thin metal hardware, printed not stitched graphics, etc.).

Frankly, the pic looks better than the reality.

It is Ok, just not great. It is also pretty small. Almost looks like a kids backpack to me.

Ok, not a life changer! However, to me, to maintain a premium brand everything matters.

I think they come up a little short on the quality of the backpack IMO


View attachment 391525

Speaking to the size, maybe they’re trying to discourage those monstrous backpacks people bring in the parks that take FOREVER to check when going through security. As to the quality, I got nothing...

 

[LAX]

Trying to "fix" DVC to achieve parity/fairness/whatever term one prefers to use is really an exercise in futility as it's inherently "unfair." The fact that all points are treated equally at the 7-month window and be used freely at any resort (provided there is still availability) makes the entire system unfair to some extent and it's not something that can be "fixed" with some arbitrary restrictions. While some people like to argue that VGC/VGF/PVB are more "valuable", how does one define value on those points? Based on DVD's direct pricing? Perhaps the resale value? The fact that DVD has different direct prices on different "tiers" of DVC resorts already make the system unfair.

I supposed a VGC owner who paid $250 per point through DVD (I don't remember what the current price is) feels a SSR direct owner who paid $200 per point shouldn't be able to stay at VGC because VGC points are more valuable. But, what about another direct VGC owner who paid only $175 per point a few years ago? Is that fair? What about a direct BWV owner who paid $75 per point years ago and wants to try out AKV? Should a resale AKV owner who paid only $100 per point be fuming because that BWV owner scored a coveted value studio? There are plenty of other scenarios which illustrate any attempt to make the system "fair" is essentially impossible.

I am not even going to belabor the point of home resort priority others have mentioned already.

LAX

 

[crvetter]

While some people like to argue that VGC/VGF/PVB are more "valuable", how does one define value on those points?

I would say we as resale buyers have defined that. As for what resorts are successful is easily defined based on availability at the 7 months. When there is a lot of availability this shows at the very least some owners aren’t buying for that resort’s booking availability but buying for the DVC Reservation Component, which is why I say AKV/OKW/SSR are actually under price. Also my discussion was on the issues at 7 month window and nothing to do with home reservation window, going back to some resorts are under-valued.

With that being said I don’t agree with the changes (but I think something will eventually need to be done with the 7 months if this change is reversed); however, I would say that all contracts prior to 1/19/19 were never guaranteed access to Riviera. Though DVC destroyed its good faith with its consumers which isn't good practice.

 

[Katie L]

Trying to "fix" DVC to achieve parity/fairness/whatever term one prefers to use is really an exercise in futility as it's inherently "unfair." The fact that all points are treated equally at the 7-month window and be used freely at any resort (provided there is still availability) makes the entire system unfair to some extent and it's not something that can be "fixed" with some arbitrary restrictions. While some people like to argue that VGC/VGF/PVB are more "valuable", how does one define value on those points? Based on DVD's direct pricing? Perhaps the resale value? The fact that DVD has different direct prices on different "tiers" of DVC resorts already make the system unfair.

I supposed a VGC owner who paid $250 per point through DVD (I don't remember what the current price is) feels an SSR direct owner who paid $200 per point shouldn't be able to stay at VGC because VGC points are more available. But, what about another direct VGC owner who paid only only $175 per point a few years ago? Is that fair? What about a direct BWV owner who paid $75 per point years ago and wants to try out AKV? Should a resale AKV owner who paid only $100 per point be fuming because that BWV owner scored a coveted value studio? There are plenty of other scenarios which illustrate any attempt to make the system "fair" is essentially impossible.

I am not even going to belabor the point of the home resort priority others have mentioned already.

LAX

This is the long game. In 2043 they are hoping to have maybe 5-6 resorts following the "new" rules. Direct purchasers can swap out at 7 months, resale buyers will now buy where they want to stay, all right. At 8 months, instead of 11.

Oh... You want to use the whole club? You want access to the low point rooms? That'll be $400/point. At this point, they've completely changed the model. Profit over everything.

 

[Katie L]

And this is what's so upsetting. Disney used to be experience over everything. That's what sold me on Disney. They knew about gluten issues in 1992 - so my grandma was able to eat out at Disney when she couldn't ANYWHERE ELSE. They took my granddaddy to the hospital when his appendix burst... And put my grandma up for the extra 5 days at no charge. And this type of experience wasn't the exception, it was the rule.

No more. They've forgotten why they earned the loyal fans they have. But they're raking it in. Much better to be a Disney shareholder than a Disney fan these days.

 

[Aussie RJ]

why I say AKV/OKW/SSR are actually under price.

Completely agree. At around $9.30 a point a 1BDR can be had at a SSR preferred for $266 a night. That’s less than a moderate hotel room. And a very good chance at BCV, AKV savanna room or BWV pool view at 7 months. In fact all were available beginning Oct 1st “fall frenzy” this year.