Is it okay to put family first? (Response to royal family stuff)

[gwynne]

I was glad to see this announcement today. Harry continues to do wonderful, important work with the Invictus Games.
https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/uk/duke-of-sussex-announces-location-of-2022-invictus-games/

 

[RedAngie]

Eh ... no. Not at all that simple. It *was* a Constitutional crisis, one that struck at the heart of the entire foundation of the structure of government there. We actually cannot discuss the reasons why in this forum, because the reasons require a pretty detailed discussion of both religious AND political issues that were at stake at the time. However, I will say this much: the crux of the matter was not that Wallis Simpson was merely "unsuitable", but that she was "ineligible", because in legal terms, the marriage would have been bigamous under UK law in place at that time.

It was for the best given his and Wallis's cozy relationship with Nazis.

Yeah, I heard all this before. I provided the Cliffs Notes version of it. I agree it was the correct decision to pressure him to abdicate.

 

[Boardwalk Jedi]

Now, you know MM should be falling on her knees every night in gratitude because a Prince lowered himself to marry her. As an American, she should know exactly what the RF deals with on a daily basis and how they live their lives under a microscope. *

*Per some opinions expressed throughout this thread

Silly me. What was I thinking?

 

[starry_solo]

So I was chatting (IRL) about this with someone and we came up with a conspiracy theory....do you think this was done to take the heat off a certain other second son?

 

[Boardwalk Jedi]

This is likely the reason is was so important to some. It was what Princess Diana did with her boys and Catherine followed the tradition in her honor. It was seen to be sort of a snub to Harry’s mum.

You’re really reaching for a reason to feel insulted. Snub to his mom??? Harry adored his mom and does much to honor her constantly. Just because MM wanted some privacy does not mean she did this to spite a long deceased mother of the man she loves. Maybe Diana wasn’t huge on the hospital steps thing either. I actually felt bad for Kate after Charlotte’s birth that she had to take the time to look unrealistically fabulous seven hours after labor when she really looked like she wanted to fall asleep. I think Meghan sent a much more real message by recovering rather than Kate did. Not knocking Kate. Just saying it was almost mean to ask that of her.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Incredible thread. I can see some frothing at the mouth hoping the couple implodes and divorce. I bet that the “ I told you so” will feel mighty good to you. Dig in your heels and enjoy it if you want.

I think there’s a difference between that and getting the story straight. On this thread it seemed like a lot of people were only going by some of what was in the latest news and didn’t know a lot of the back story or about the monarchy. Having followed their story from the beginning I can tell you that people were thrilled for them, but little by little a lot of that chipped away by some of the things they said and did, and that continues. People are loyal to the Queen and feel this was hurtful to her the way it went down, among many other things. For people who claim to be hurt by others themselves it seems kind of funny how they don’t seem to care when they hurt people, including her dad. People see this as hypocritical of them, and that’s their right. People are getting tired of being preached to in a do-what-I-say-not-what-I-do kind of way, and their being out there on the forefront of that it’s bound to be open to more scrutiny. Harry will always be loved by the people of the UK.

 

[snappy]

I think there’s a difference between that and getting the story straight. On this thread it seemed like a lot of people were only going by some of what was in the latest news and didn’t know a lot of the back story or about the monarchy. Having followed their story from the beginning I can tell you that people were thrilled for them, but little by little a lot of that chipped away by some of the things they said and did, and that continues. People are loyal to the Queen and feel this was hurtful to her the way it went down, among many other things. For people who claim to be hurt by others themselves it seems kind of funny how they don’t seem to care when they hurt people, including her dad. People see this as hypocritical of them, and that’s their right. People are getting tired of being preached to in a do-what-I-say-not-what-I-do kind of way, and their being out there on the forefront of that it’s bound to be open to more scrutiny. Harry will always be loved by the people of the UK.

Thanks for a thoughtful response.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

You’re really reaching for a reason to feel insulted. Snub to his mom??? Harry adored his mom and does much to honor her constantly. Just because MM wanted some privacy does not mean she did this to spite a long deceased mother of the man she loves. Maybe Diana wasn’t huge on the hospital steps thing either. I actually felt bad for Kate after Charlotte’s birth that she had to take the time to look unrealistically fabulous seven hours after labor when she really looked like she wanted to fall asleep. I think Meghan sent a much more real message by recovering rather than Kate did. Not knocking Kate. Just saying it was almost mean to ask that of her.

Just so a slew of ignorant people could ask, “Um, why does she still look pregnant?” I mean, what woman doesn’t want to get dolled up hours after natural childbirth, stuff pads into various articles of clothing, pull pantyhose over their mesh underwear, and teeter their high-heeled selves in front of a sea of cameras so the whole world can critique her postpartum body?

 

[gwynne]

Just so a slew of ignorant people could ask, “Um, why does she still look pregnant?” I mean, what woman doesn’t want to get dolled up hours after natural childbirth, stuff pads into various articles of clothing, pull pantyhose over their mesh underwear, and teeter their high-heeled selves in front of a sea of cameras so the whole world can critique her postpartum body?

I guess if one chooses to carefully ponder this from a rather unique (british might say rude) point of view, one does.

In reality, it's a moment of shared joy. A quick photo, and then off to privacy.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I guess if one chooses to carefully ponder this from a rather unique (british might say rude) point of view, one does.

In reality, it's a moment of shared joy. A quick photo, and then off to privacy.

I’m not sure what you’re referring to. After her first birth, I saw multiple online articles and even heard a discussion on the radio questioning why her body looked the way it did.

And it’s not at all a “quick photo” when she first has to get glam with full hair and make up. Heck, there was some story at the time talking about how her dress had to be made in half a dozen sizes because there was no way to predict what size she would be immediately after giving birth, so I guess we can include a dress fitting into the list of things she had to do to prepare for that “quick” photo op. Personally, as a new mom, I would’ve preferred to spend that time bonding with and admiring my brand new baby.

 

[gwynne]

.....

I’m not sure what you’re referring to. After her first birth, I saw multiple online articles and even heard a discussion on the radio questioning why her body looked the way it did.

And it’s not at all a “quick photo” when she first has to get glam with full hair and make up. Heck, there was some story at the time talking about how her dress had to be made in half a dozen sizes because there was no way to predict what size she would be immediately after giving birth, so I guess we can include a dress fitting into the list of things she had to do to prepare for that “quick” photo op. Personally, as a new mom, I would’ve preferred to spend that time bonding with and admiring my brand new baby.

Absolutely nothing wrong with you do you. Your birth, your way.

I believe the Royals understand the beauty of shared joy. It's a very special moment. They handle a quick photo fine, and then off to bonding and privacy.
Their birth, their way.

And with that I am done on this subject.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

.....

Absolutely nothing wrong with you do you. Your birth, your way.

I believe the Royals understand the beauty of shared joy. It's a very special moment. They handle a quick photo fine, and then off to bonding and privacy.
Their birth, their way.

And with that I am done on this subject.

Well, until Meghan wants to do it her way. Then it’s a breach of royal protocol and a snub to the British people.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I had no need to get dolled up and wear heels after the birth of any of my children. We took photos and the baby in a blanket hid what after belly I had.....but that didn't bother me. I was up quickly, taking care of my family hours after delivery. I could've put on makeup and heels if wanted or needed. Giving birth didn't make me an invalid.

I know not the same scenario but vanity wouldn't have stopped me.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Well, until Meghan wants to do it her way. Then it’s a breach of royal protocol and a snub to the British people.

She seems to always do it her way no matter who she hurts or disappoints. "What Meghan wants Meghan gets". It's her way or no way. At least that's what is often reported and it's the one thing I haven't heard disputed.

 

[NotUrsula]

Folks, there is *no* expectation on the part of the Queen that family babies will be shown off to photographers on the Lindo Wing steps in their mothers' arms. Her expectation in that regard is the sitting for the traditional Christening portrait. She would be fine with them doing private home births and not appearing in public for a month, just as she did.

Take a look at the layout of St. Mary's. That is how one gets in & out with a car to pull up directly to the Lindo door, but it's boxed in. Based on how the practice started with Princess Anne, I would guess the idea is to keep the baby safer by formally granting access for a set time, so that no chasing and scrambling happens there. Princess Anne didn't appear to go to any great effort at glamour, though I think that the capes were a great choice on her part; very forgiving.

ETA: I think that most of the press are after the pic of the baby, or at least that is their excuse for being there, so if they wished to send Daddy out to the steps with the infant, I'm sure that would be fine as well. A little friendly banter would do the trick: "Well, she just did a job of hard work, so it's my turn for a bit whilst she gets some much-needed rest. Isn't Baby adorable; we're over the moon!"

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Folks, there is *no* expectation on the part of the Queen that family babies will be shown off to photographers on the Lindo Wing steps in their mothers' arms. Her expectation in that regard is the sitting for the traditional Christening portrait. She would be fine with them doing private home births and not appearing in public for a month, just as she did.

Take a look at the layout of St. Mary's. That is how one gets in & out with a car to pull up directly to the Lindo door, but it's boxed in. Based on how the practice started with Princess Anne, I would guess the idea is to keep the baby safer by formally granting access for a set time, so that no chasing and scrambling happens there. Princess Anne didn't appear to go to any great effort at glamour, though I think that the capes were a great choice on her part; very forgiving.

And the kerchief!

 

[tcufrog]

I had no need to get dolled up and wear heels after the birth of any of my children. We took photos and the baby in a blanket hid what after belly I had.....but that didn't bother me. I was up quickly, taking care of my family hours after delivery. I could've put on makeup and heels if wanted or needed. Giving birth didn't make me an invalid.

I know not the same scenario but vanity wouldn't have stopped me.

I had two unexpected c-sections and felt absolutely awful, bloated, and physically weak after both. I was wheeled out to the car in a wheelchair and could barely stand and hold my baby at the same time after my first was born. Laying down flat for the first two postpartum weeks was painful so I slept in a recliner. There's no way I would have wanted to do what Katherine did after her babies were born. I have friends who had super easy L&Ds. In fact, one of them joked that by the time baby 3 came out, she was like a slip n slide. Not all stories are the same. We don't know what Meghan and Katherine went through. Katherine's might have been easy both times and Meghan might have had a very difficult time.

 

[cabanafrau]

She seems to always do it her way no matter who she hurts or disappoints. "What Meghan wants Meghan gets". It's her way or no way. At least that's what is often reported and it's the one thing I haven't heard disputed.

In case anyone missed it -- "What Meghan wants Meghan gets" has simply been repeatedly published based off unknown sources. Since every single case of inflammatory language based off of details that are either incorrect or did not happen have not been specifically refuted by the RF, there is no substantiation that this statement was made, or indeed under what circumstances it may or may not have been said.

Purely for discussion let's agree that it was said. What was the context? Is there any room for the possibility that during wedding planning discussions a groom who isn't super up to speed, particularly interested in the minutiae of the details, or feeling overwhelmed by all the decision making made a comment to jokingly reflect that his bride would be the better one to ask and chose the words "What Meghan wants Meghan gets" to express the fact he didn't have a clue about what was being discussed? Easy for a staffer with an agenda to take that to the press, knowing the royals "never complain, never explain". Or could the comment have been overheard by someone not in the conversation, not understanding it was a joke and sincerely believe Harry was serious?

Let's stick with the idea Harry did say it, but let's view it from the perspective that he meant it in a serious manner. Did he say it because he felt the RF protocols were dominating and edging the bride completely out of her own wedding, or maybe he knew Meghan had initially discussed some ideas with him that were all shut down by TPTB and he was making a stand for her to get some detail to reflect her vision? Was this one of the first displays of someone for whom a wife and a child were triggering trauma from his childhood and clouding his judgment and reactions, making him feel everyone is out to get his wife/child? Was Meghan simply of the idea that the bride who's marrying a prince should get a wedding fit for a princess and everybody bow down, with her prince clearing the field for her?

I'll stick with my salt shaker when it comes to "What Meghan wants Meghan gets". Simply because it's been repeatedly reported isn't conclusive in my book.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I had two unexpected c-sections and felt absolutely awful, bloated, and physically weak after both. I was wheeled out to the car in a wheelchair and could barely stand and hold my baby at the same time after my first was born. Laying down flat for the first two postpartum weeks was painful so I slept in a recliner. There's no way I would have wanted to do what Katherine did after her babies were born. I have friends who had super easy L&Ds. In fact, one of them joked that by the time baby 3 came out, she was like a slip n slide. Not all stories are the same. We don't know what Meghan and Katherine went through. Katherine's might have been easy both times and Meghan might have had a very difficult time.

I’m so sorry you had a difficult time. I do realize I was very fortunate with all of my births. A couple of my children were also born at home so I know there is strict criteria regarding home delivery. I was a bit surprised they chose to birth at home with Megan being over 35 and a first time Mom...adds to the risk factors but their choice. I believe there was an announcement before L&D... regarding no public viewing of the baby. It’s all fine but many well wishers were disappointed. Harry is loved by the people and they wanted to share in his happiness.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

In case anyone missed it -- "What Meghan wants Meghan gets" has simply been repeatedly published based off unknown sources. Since every single case of inflammatory language based off of details that are either incorrect or did not happen have not been specifically refuted by the RF, there is no substantiation that this statement was made, or indeed under what circumstances it may or may not have been said.

Purely for discussion let's agree that it was said. What was the context? Is there any room for the possibility that during wedding planning discussions a groom who isn't super up to speed, particularly interested in the minutiae of the details, or feeling overwhelmed by all the decision making made a comment to jokingly reflect that his bride would be the better one to ask and chose the words "What Meghan wants Meghan gets" to express the fact he didn't have a clue about what was being discussed? Easy for a staffer with an agenda to take that to the press, knowing the royals "never complain, never explain". Or could the comment have been overheard by someone not in the conversation, not understanding it was a joke and sincerely believe Harry was serious?

Let's stick with the idea Harry did say it, but let's view it from the perspective that he meant it in a serious manner. Did he say it because he felt the RF protocols were dominating and edging the bride completely out of her own wedding, or maybe he knew Meghan had initially discussed some ideas with him that were all shut down by TPTB and he was making a stand for her to get some detail to reflect her vision? Was this one of the first displays of someone for whom a wife and a child were triggering trauma from his childhood and clouding his judgment and reactions, making him feel everyone is out to get his wife/child? Was Meghan simply of the idea that the bride who's marrying a prince should get a wedding fit for a princess and everybody bow down, with her prince clearing the field for her?

I'll stick with my salt shaker when it comes to "What Meghan wants Meghan gets". Simply because it's been repeatedly reported isn't conclusive in my book.

The source was not unknown, though. That quote, and the story surrounding it, was published in a book by Royal Biographer Robert Jobson called Charles at Seventy, Thoughts, Hopes and Dreams.

Jobson has quite the resume: http://jobsonmedia.com/

I somehow doubt that he would risk his reputation - and ongoing access to the RF - by lying in the book. The quote made its way into headlines as excerpts from the book were being broadcast prior to its release. Charles' 70th birthday was right around the time of Harry and Meghan's wedding.

Anyway - and I'm not quoting any particular source because the same passage can be found in many places - this is how it was written in the book:

Prince Harry is claimed to have shouted "what Meghan wants, she gets" at royal staff ahead of his wedding earlier this year.

According to royal biographer Robert Jobson, the Duke of Sussex was so "stressed" with wedding preparation that he became "petulant and short-tempered" with those around him.

As part of a serialization in the Daily Mail, the new biography "Charles at Seventy: Thoughts, Hopes and Dreams" claims that Harry would "raise his voice" to ensure Meghan Markle had her every wish met.

And although the Duke and Duchess of Sussex appeared relaxed and carefree on their Windsor wedding day, the royal expert writes: "The weeks leading up to the wedding had been far more tense for both Harry and Meghan than most people realized."

The couple is even reported to have booked a "series of appointments with Ross Barr, known as 'the acupuncturist to the stars'" as a means of coping with the stress.

However, the biographer claims "whether these treatments had much impact on Harry is debatable" as he continued to grow more short-tempered with royal staff in the weeks leading up to the wedding.

What's more, there were times where the pressure of the Royal Wedding (which was watched by over 1 billion people worldwide) appeared to get too much for the Prince.

Robert added: "Raising his voice on occasion, Harry would insist: 'What Meghan wants, she gets.'"

Describing Harry as "prone to volatility", the biographer revealed that "like this mother, he tends to wear his heart on his sleeve."

The new Prince Charles biography also explores his complex relationship with his sons and how both Prince Harry and Prince William take after Princess Diana.

Quoting a source close to the Palace, the biographer claims: "To this day, Charles admits he often finds it difficult to gauge either of his sons' occasionally unpredictable moods.

"In that aspect of their nature, both princes are very much like their mother."

ETA The more I think of this passage the more I think the author could perhaps have been being quite restrained with his words.