US buys 300 million doses of COVID-19 VACCINE -- delivery starts Sept 2020

[Marionnette]

Coming in October to a US zip code near you: zombies. And you thought Covid was bad.

They’ve been working for YEARS on cold vaccinations. Corona virus is from the same family of viruses that bring us the cold. This type of virus creates a short term immunity response, which is why you can get the cold again and again (unlike measles which triggers a long term immunity response). I’m not buying that a useful, safe vaccination can be produced by Fall. Oh, wait, I pay taxes so I guess I am buying it.

Coronaviruses are just one of many families of viruses that cause the “common cold”. There are 7 identified coronaviruses that affect humans and 4 cause mild to moderate symptoms. The other 3 would be SARS, MERS and COVID-19.

Just because this one comes from the corona family, that doesn’t mean that an effective vaccine cannot be produced. The reason that there is no vaccine for the common cold is because there is no one single strain or virus that causes it, the symptoms are relatively mild and not deadly, and financially speaking, it is not worth it for pharmaceutical companies to pursue research and development down that rabbit hole.

We’re further ahead on developing a CV-19 vaccine because of the research that has already been done on SARS and MERS (both are “corona cousins”) It gave researchers a leg up on what might work and what definitely won’t work. For instance, research shows that recovered SARS patients exhibit sufficiently measurable IgG antibodies for 2 years after infection with a decline beginning at year #3. MERS shows a similar immunologic response.

All this implies that a vaccine is a possibility but not a promise. But I’m willing to hope for the possibility, rather than dismiss it outright.

 

[NYCgrrl]

Part of the money is for R&D and part is for delivery of 300 million doses. Nothing misleading or untrue at all.

Time will tell whether this particular vaccine works out, but at least they are using some good planning and strategic management skills to support and streamline the entire process.

The entire area of treatment and prevention of Covid has thousands of moving parts. Nobody is saying that any one of those parts is THE answer.

here is part of the statement from HHS found on it's website; makes for good reading in total:

The agreement between AstraZeneca and the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA), part of the HHS office of the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response, will accelerate the development and manufacturing of the company’s investigational vaccine to begin Phase 3 clinical studies this summer with approximately 30,000 volunteers in the United States.


Under this public-private partnership, BARDA can provide up to $1.2 billion to support, in parallel, advanced clinical studies, vaccine manufacturing technology transfer, process development, scaled-up manufacturing, and other development activities. Emergency use authorization or licensure of this vaccine from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) would be required to make the vaccine available. Early milestones enable BARDA and AstraZeneca to determine how the program progresses forward.

It does not read from my understanding that "Astra" will provide 300 million vaccines assuming their version passes it's trials. Anyway, I doubt one company has the capacity to provide that number of vaccines by September. It says manufacturing technology transfer ( partial translation: other companies involved) , and scaled up manufacturing. The devil is in the undiluted details as found on the gov't agency's website:
https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020...ine-to-be-available-beginning-in-october.html

There are some blanks/missing information in the news release that do not ensure the final price of the vaccine.

Is it a good thing that the government is finally taking this pandemic seriously? Absolutely. Just wish we didn't have to listen/live through bombastic months of denial.

 

[Marionnette]

here is part of the statement from HHS found on it's website; makes for good reading in total:



It does not read from my understanding that "Astra" will provide 300 million vaccines assuming their version passes it's trials. Anyway, I doubt one company has the capacity to provide that number of vaccines by September. It says manufacturing technology transfer ( partial translation: other companies involved) , and scaled up manufacturing. The devil is in the undiluted details as found on the gov't agency's website:
https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020...ine-to-be-available-beginning-in-october.html

There are some blanks/missing information in the news release that do not ensure the final price of the vaccine.

Is it a good thing that the government is finally taking this pandemic seriously? Absolutely. Just wish we didn't have to listen/live through bombastic months of denial.

Which government would that be? Surely not the government that enacted a China travel ban In February. Must be a different government that was in denial.

 

[mefordis]

Coming in October to a US zip code near you: zombies. And you thought Covid was bad.

They’ve been working for YEARS on cold vaccinations. Corona virus is from the same family of viruses that bring us the cold. This type of virus creates a short term immunity response, which is why you can get the cold again and again (unlike measles which triggers a long term immunity response). I’m not buying that a useful, safe vaccination can be produced by Fall. Oh, wait, I pay taxes so I guess I am buying it.

There are a lot of willing test subjects ready to roll up their sleeves and test it for us. There will be no liability for this vaccine so why wait - just deploy it and see what happens. As long as it's strictly voluntary.

 

[NYCgrrl]

Which government would that be? Surely not the government that enforced a China travel ban In February. Must be a different government that was in denial.

We all read/interpret facts as we wish to.
One of the biggest hot spots in the USA was not traced to China but in fact to Europe.

 

[Marionnette]

We all read/interpret facts as we wish to.
One of the biggest hot spots in the USA was not traced to China but in fact to Europe.

Which was traced back to China.

 

[JimMIA]

here is part of the statement from HHS found on it's website; makes for good reading in total:



It does not read from my understanding that "Astra" will provide 300 million vaccines assuming their version passes it's trials. Anyway, I doubt one company has the capacity to provide that number of vaccines by September. It says manufacturing technology transfer ( partial translation: other companies involved) , and scaled up manufacturing. The devil is in the undiluted details as found on the gov't agency's website:
https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020...ine-to-be-available-beginning-in-october.html

One of the things I learned in two careers in government spanning 36 years (25 county, 11 federal) is NOT to base my understanding of ANY topic on any press release from any governmental body or official -- regardless of topic or political affiliation.

The press release you posted gives the bare outline of what the government is doing, but does not pretend to present the entire picture. The same is true of the news stories that I and others have posted. None give the full picture.

Is it a good thing that the government is finally taking this pandemic seriously? Absolutely. Just wish we didn't have to listen/live through bombastic months of denial.

That's your political response, and you have a right to your political opinion.

My personal opinion is that all governments, at all levels and regardless of political affiliations, have done the best they could with a totally unprecedented catastrophic event. And I think they have done a pretty good job, by and large.

So I sympathize with their difficulties, but don't criticize them for political reasons even though it would be easy and fun to do so in some cases.

 

[ronandannette]

Just a heads up, you probably want to edit your thread title since it's misleading/ not true.
The 1.2 billion is for R+D not for the purchase of the vetted vaccine. There are also agreements with 3 other companies to assist with R and D.

I was just going to ask: Are there other labs also working on a vaccine? If so, how does anybody know which is going to be "the" first and most effective? It's a mind-blowing amount of money but at least it makes sense, if indeed the investments are in several different labs working on different vaccines.

 

[mom2rtk]

I love that they aren't waiting until they know if it works to ramp up production. The cost of keeping our country in lockdown, or risking an additional lockdown in the fall is far too high not to do this.

 

[Primeval Princess]

The answer is in the news story. Obviously nobody is going to pay for something unless it works and is delivered.

Your thread headline is therefore more than a bit misleading.

 

[JimMIA]

Your thread headline is therefore more than a bit misleading.

First of all, WELCOME TO THE DIS! You'll have a lot of fun and gain a lot of priceless information about Disney here.

Your question was asked and answered on page 1 of the thread.

 

[JimMIA]

I was just going to ask: Are there other labs also working on a vaccine? If so, how does anybody know which is going to be "the" first and most effective? It's a mind-blowing amount of money but at least it makes sense, if indeed the investments are in several different labs working on different vaccines.

Sure $1.2 billion is a lot of money -- but consider the context.

Congress has passed $5 TRILLION or so in Covid stimulus -- not all of which is perfect in anybody's eyes.

The Federal Reserve has pumped more than that into the economy -- not all of which is perfect -- and is ready and willing to do much more.

But the key factor here is NOT the amount of money, but the way the US government is working with pharma to speed up the process. There is a crazy-long lead time for drug approval, but the government is now speeding that up. The same is true of the manufacturing/supply chain, and both government and pharma are streamlining that.

So yeah, $1.2 Billion is a lot of money -- but in the grand scheme of the overall problem it's a drop in the bucket.

 

[NYCgrrl]

Which was traced back to China.

One of the things I learned in two careers in government spanning 36 years (25 county, 11 federal) is NOT to base my understanding of ANY topic on any press release from any governmental body or official -- regardless of topic or political affiliation.

The press release you posted gives the bare outline of what the government is doing, but does not pretend to present the entire picture. The same is true of the news stories that I and others have posted. None give the full picture.
That's your political response, and you have a right to your political opinion.

My personal opinion is that all governments, at all levels and regardless of political affiliations, have done the best they could with a totally unprecedented catastrophic event. And I think they have done a pretty good job, by and large.

So I sympathize with their difficulties, but don't criticize them for political reasons even though it would be easy and fun to do so in some cases.

Unlike some I don't base my responses on politics; common sense works much better for me.

Connect the dots and figure out what YOU would do if you were in the position to make a decision in February, a month or so after knowing the pandemic was here.
Do you think this epidemic was different from all the others that came before it from a historical and scientific POV?
Do you think it was a flu?
Do you tell people there is nothing to worry about because you shut down travel to a specific part of the world and ignore other intelligence available to you that says it is spreading to other continents?

I'm not drinking that Koolaid and am a firm believer that the Who spoke truths decades back("....we wont be fooled again...." is what they said for those who don't know that song)

Unlike some, I don't allow politics to cloud common sense and/or my ability to keep up to date with current events and parse the information. Half truths is part of the reason some are incapable of trusting many institutions.
I also think that the billions spent fixing the mistakes made addressing this pandemic could have been better allocated if all parts of our govt worked together. The information was there but one part chose to not believe for it's own somewhat inscrutable reasons.

And as Dylan said- you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

 

[ronandannette]

Sure $1.2 billion is a lot of money -- but consider the context.

Congress has passed $5 TRILLION or so in Covid stimulus -- not all of which is perfect in anybody's eyes.

The Federal Reserve has pumped more than that into the economy -- not all of which is perfect -- and is ready and willing to do much more.

But the key factor here is NOT the amount of money, but the way the US government is working with pharma to speed up the process. There is a crazy-long lead time for drug approval, but the government is now speeding that up. The same is true of the manufacturing/supply chain, and both government and pharma are streamlining that.

So yeah, $1.2 Billion is a lot of money -- but in the grand scheme of the overall problem it's a drop in the bucket.

Is money all it takes? I know nothing of pharmaceutical R & D but how does money speed up the science? Testing and trials need as long as they need, no?

 

[NYCgrrl]

I was just going to ask: Are there other labs also working on a vaccine? If so, how does anybody know which is going to be "the" first and most effective? It's a mind-blowing amount of money but at least it makes sense, if indeed the investments are in several different labs working on different vaccines.

It sounds as if other facilities will be involved in making and distributing the vaccine if it works. As @JimMIA pointed out, and I concur, one must read government press releases with care.

 

[Marionnette]

Connect the dots and figure out what YOU would do if you were in the position to make a decision in February, a month or so after knowing the pandemic was here.
Do you think this epidemic was different from all the others that came before it from a historical and scientific POV?
Do you think it was a flu?
Do you tell people there is nothing to worry about because you shut down travel to a specific part of the world and ignore other intelligence available to you that says it is spreading to other continents?

I'm not drinking that Koolaid and am a firm believer that the Who spoke truths decades back("....we wont be fooled again...." is what they said for those who don't know that song)

Unlike some, I don't allow politics to cloud common sense and/or my ability to keep up to date with current events and parse the information. Half truths is part of the reason some are incapable of trusting many institutions.
I also think that the billions spent fixing the mistakes made addressing this pandemic could have been better allocated if all parts of our govt worked together. The information was there but one part chose to not believe for it's own somewhat inscrutable reasons.

And as Dylan said- you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

I’ll agree with you that a lot of money spent could have better served us if all parts of the government worked together. But don’t paint me as uniformed, ignorant or blind to what has gone on just because you choose to only see one side and think it is the whole picture.

 

[JimMIA]

Is money all it takes? I know nothing of pharmaceutical R & D but how does money speed up the science? Testing and trials need as long as they need, no?

Money speeds up the science in the sense that it costs money to do the R&D, so if a government pays for part of it, that helps. Testing takes as long as it takes, but it can be sped up by doing larger tests.

But the big thing government and pharma have done together is look at the pipeline to figure out how they can speed up the process.

They are doing that by doing some things concurrently, instead of waiting until all the ducks are in a row before moving to the next step. So as lifesavacation said back on Page 1, they will be manufacturing and stockpiling some vaccine while the trials are in progress. If the drug passes the trials and is approved, they are ready to go to distribution. They don't have to wait for months to gear up the manufacturing process because they're already manufacturing.

 

[NYCgrrl]

I’ll agree with you that a lot of money spent could have better served us if all parts of the government worked together. But don’t paint me as uniformed, ignorant or blind to what has gone on just because you choose to only see one side and think it is the whole picture.

I said some and there was no reason to include yourself in that category unless it gives you comfort. Also didn't call anyone specifically "uniformed, ignorant or blind".
Please try not to read my mind since there is only one person who can.

@JimMIA- what makes you think they are manufacturing millions of dosages of an unproven vaccine in advance? I didn't read anything like that but maybe I missed something.

 

[Starwind]

@JimMIA- what makes you think they are manufacturing millions of dosages of an unproven vaccine in advance? I didn't read anything like that but maybe I missed something.

Over the last few months there have been multiple news stories and statements from government and the companies involved in COVID vaccine development and manufacturing that this is the case.

Multiple things are being done to speed the process by which vaccines can be made available for use, if and when a successful vaccine is proven effective, including (not all may be being done for the same vaccine candidate) as examples:

- conducting parallel trials {eg phase 1 and phase 2 clinical trials at the same time)
- manufacturing candidate vaccine NOW so if it is proven successful there are initial doses "ready to go" immediately upon approval [so manufacturing is being done in parallel with clinical trials]
- ramping up manufacturing capacity to produce massive quantities of vaccine -- this includes some building of brand new manufacturing facilities as well as partnering with other companies (which normally would not be done for a new patented drug) to produce (manufacture) the vaccine

Here is an example, an article from the World Economic Forum: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/bill-gates-7-potential-coronavirus-vaccines

Also, someone mentioned cost. Many of the major vaccine producers have made public agreements either voluntarily or as a condition of receiving government grants [not just from the US, other governments are also pouring vast sums of $ into vaccine research] that the vaccines will be available *at cost* during the pandemic period. I read an article regarding this agreement from one of the major pharmaceutical companies and they estimated the "at cost" cost of each vaccine would be just over US$10. This article isant as clear a statement as some others but gives the gist: "Oxford University said both partners have agreed to operate on a not-for-profit basis for the duration of the pandemic, with only the costs of production and distribution being covered." (source: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a...an-trials-expected-in-june-or-july-2020-04-30 )

[Oxford University is the one who did/is doing the R&D to develop the vaccine, however they have a very limited production capacity; they have partnered with AstraZenica, who has the manufacturing capacity, to do the massive production that will be necessary if the vaccine works and is approved; some of that production is being brought online NOW while clinical trials are underway so that if the vaccine is successful there is already an initial set of doses available and large scale production is in place. VS "normally" with a non-pandemic vaccine one would do the clinical trials and then once it is approved THEN you would scale up your production, usually after the University or Government lab that likely did the R&D does a technology transfer of the IP to a pharmaceutical company capable of producing it. So what they are doing now is (1) partnering with the pharmaceutical company earlier in the process; (2) taking the risk to ramp up manufacturing capability while vaccine is still in clinical trials and not yet proven effective; and (3) starting to produce large quantities of the vaccine to have on in in case it is shown effective and approved. There has been extensive media coverage of this in recent months.]

SW

 

[JimMIA]

Here is an example, an article from the World Economic Forum: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/bill-gates-7-potential-coronavirus-vaccines

At the risk of straying off topic a little...is anyone else getting tired of Bill and Melinda Gates telling us what to think, read, do, etc in every imaginable life situation?

They apparently have the entire universe figured out!