NYC getting looted live on a youtube feed Monday 9 pm sad

Let's be real here - one of the causes is the fact that we have been cooped up so long and that unemployment is at unprecedented levels. We predicted the day SiP went into affect that there would be riots and looting. This was long before any of the horrible news occurred that led to the protests. I was basing my prediction on what I experienced in '92 though, not what I was seeing in 2020. I really hope that we've learned from '92 - it wasn't the Rodney King beating that sparked the riots and looting - it was the acquittal.
I'm sure the various stay at home rules, and now and still to come unemployment has much to do with current mindsets. I'm also sure that some protestors with noble intent give in to a crime of the moment just like LEOs do. Nobody is perfect and few claim to be.

This is no longer my generations' fight in full. We give money, we encourage, and advise for the most part. Oh right and we vote...sigh ish ish.
It belongs to those younger than me to know your entire history and respond accordingly. Violence for the sake of itself has never solved any problem just allowed it to simmer for another time's people to fix. You control the agenda by not wavering and holding true to what you have recently observed.

I wish you well with this centuries' old issue and hope ALL sides listen because some are tired of hearing themselves talk.

Oh and here's a heads up: Many people of colour remember the past and it extends long before the "Rodney King" riots.

This is as real as I know how to be in a diverse group.
 
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Those looting have very direct goals in mind. They are causing a disturbance, destroying some level of property (mostly nothing that can't be fixed) and taking merchandise that they can easily flip on the streets later. Notice that it's mostly high end merchandise, items that are easy to run with, etc. They are making a mess, and it's distressing to see, but it's still a symptom of the overall problem. Personally, I think it's better that it mostly happened with little standoff, as a standoff would have ended worse.

Tonight's curfew is at 8pm rather 11pm, so it's possible that the same extent of looting won't happen in another area. It's also possible it does regardless. Either way, property and merchandise can be replaced and fixed. I'm not allowing this result of the devolving of the situation to take away from the good work and points being made by peaceful protestors.
 
I'm sure the various stay at home rules, and now and still to come unemployment has much to do with current mindsets. I'm also sure that some protestors with noble intent given to a crime of the moment just like LEOs do. Nobody is perfect and few claim to be.

This is no longer my generations' fight in full. We give money, we encourage, and advice for the most part. Oh right and we vote...sigh ish ish.
It belongs to those younger than me to know your entire history and respond accordingly. Violence for the sake of itself has never solved any problem just allowed it to simmer for another time's people to fix. You control the agenda by not wavering and holding true to what you have recently observed.

I wish you well with this centuries' old issue and hope ALL sides listen because some are tired of hearing themselves talk.

Oh and here's a heads up: Many people of colour remember the past and it extends long before the "Rodney King" riots.

This is as real as I know how to be in a diverse group.
This is exactly the disconnect that I am seeing now. The violence, looting, arson, etc. has NOTHING to do with the protests. These are just criminals taking advantage of the fact that there is a planned protest. It drives me crazy when you hear the phrase "protest turned violent" on the news coverage. No, far from it, these are separate groups of people. That's why the other phrase, "dilutes the message" also drives me crazy - as if the protesters are somehow involved with the violence. By-and-large, they are not - at all. So yes, I wish the protests would stop - that would stop the violence. The protesters could sit down with the politicians, the police, and business leaders and enact real change.
The damage to the businesses has to stop at all costs. The first night in LA the looters hit the high-end businesses. In Long Beach the next night they just hit everything, and this occurred in a part of town that has struggled for DECADES to remain viable. What's worse is this is a city with Police force that has a VERY good relationship with the community. Just like in '92, in those neighborhoods, it will take years for many of these businesses to return. Many will not. These are local owned, minority owned businesses that took real chances just being there in the first place. I get how important freedom of speech is, but it really needs to take a back seat if that is to be the cost.
 
This is exactly the disconnect that I am seeing now. The violence, looting, arson, etc. has NOTHING to do with the protests. These are just criminals taking advantage of the fact that there is a planned protest. It drives me crazy when you hear the phrase "protest turned violent" on the news coverage. No, far from it, these are separate groups of people. That's why the other phrase, "dilutes the message" also drives me crazy - as if the protesters are somehow involved with the violence. By-and-large, they are not - at all. So yes, I wish the protests would stop - that would stop the violence. The protesters could sit down with the politicians, the police, and business leaders and enact real change.
The damage to the businesses has to stop at all costs. The first night in LA the looters hit the high-end businesses. In Long Beach the next night they just hit everything, and this occurred in a part of town that has struggled for DECADES to remain viable. What's worse is this is a city with Police force that has a VERY good relationship with the community. Just like in '92, in those neighborhoods, it will take years for many of these businesses to return. Many will not. These are local owned, minority owned businesses that took real chances just being there in the first place. I get how important freedom of speech is, but it really needs to take a back seat if that is to be the cost.
I'm more than happy to put my money where my mouth is to ensure that destroyed minority businesses have the capital to re-establish their livelihood. Brick and mortar can be replaced; lives cannot. Not going to give up one iota of hard won freedoms to ensure another. And I will never encourage anyone to sit in the back of the bus again.

One of my sons is a protester and I'm proud of him. The other son feels he cannot due to the sensitive nature of his work; I support both of them in their visions of the future.
 
Either way, property and merchandise can be replaced and fixed. I'm not allowing this result of the devolving of the situation to take away from the good work and points being made by peaceful protestors.

But what happens if someone's loved one is in a building they just set on fire? Or a family restaurant is now trashed, literally 24 hours after they were reallowed to open post-quarantine - and have no money left to fix the damage? I read that someone purposely threw a lit stick into a trailer with live horses. What did those poor horses ever do to die that horribly?

imo, it absolutely takes away from the good work/points made. The right to protest a terrible misjustice is 100% justified - and protestors need and deserve as many advocates on their side as possible - including influential ones who carry weight with politicians in power. But their chance of getting that support erodes the more the violence continues. Kudos to protestors who get that and are trying to stop the mayhem.

One local paper had an editorial excusing all the violence as justified due to "built up anger".
If we give one group a pass to risk lives and livelihoods and steal goods from stores because we believe their anger is justified and they deserve to blow off steam, that's a clear message to every group who may also have justifiable anger over a misjustice. Go for it. It works.
 
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Oh and here's a heads up: Many people of colour remember the past and it extends long before the "Rodney King" riots.
True, and there are a lot of white people who remember back WAY beyond Rodney King. Not as far back as people descended from slaves, but there were a LOT of white people involved at many levels in the Civil Rights movement in the 1960's and following years.

Unfortunately, in many cities the memory here is going to be "The George Floyd Riots"...like HE did something wrong.

The violence has already blown away most of the positive intent of the good people of all races. There is not going to be any good come from this -- just polarization.
 
True, and there are a lot of white people who remember back WAY beyond Rodney King. Not as far back as people descended from slaves, but there were a LOT of white people involved at many levels in the Civil Rights movement in the 1960's and following years.

Unfortunately, in many cities the memory here is going to be "The George Floyd Riots"...like HE did something wrong.

The violence has already blown away most of the positive intent of the good people of all races. There is not going to be any good come from this -- just polarization.
Sorry, the polarization was already there which is why we are in this situation now.

What would you have people do? No protest systemic racism and watch it continue to go unaddressed?
 
There are videos circulating on twitter of cops around the country unloading and stacking bricks by locations where protests were scheduled. The most recent one I saw was in Boston. No, I'm not posting the video due to language.
You probably shouldn't believe everything you read online. That story has been debunked. I'd like to think most rational people would have been skeptical at the very least.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...eath-live-n1221821/ncrd1222216#liveBlogHeader
 
There is not going to be any good come from this -- just polarization.

That is what the foreign agitators want. More polarization and division within the US. Facebook is having a tough time taking down all of the inflammatory posts that are garnering millions of views and are operated by instigators outside of the US.
 
I'm not surprised (that it was false). It just didn't even sound right. But it goes to show how anyone will grab onto a "fact".
My daughter told me this morning she had seen it on Twitter. I told her to just hang on and see if it was really true since it seemed "off". This happens with so many things these days, that I take all of it with a giant grain of salt.
 
The violence has already blown away most of the positive intent of the good people of all races. There is not going to be any good come from this -- just polarization.
I am going to disagree with you again :)

I've seen more corporate response to this than I have before. The statements about, rebuilding, and black lives being more important than their storefronts. That's different than previous times. One of the ways, I knew perspectives on gay marriage, and minorities was starting to change, regardless of rhetoric, was by watching the Superbowl commercials. When even Walmart and Budweiser are posting commercials that are more representative of a diverse America, something is slowly happening. I have a lot of family from rural, red areas. During the last couple months during the pandemic they have been posting thank yous and positive comments toward the administration. For this, it's videos not of the President, but of people peacefully protesting, and calls to listen to the words of Jesus.

I have no idea how long this might last. If corporations will put their money where their mouth is, beyond posting on FB and Twitter, and one-time donations, and if they will re-evaluate how their own policies are reflective of a broken system. But it's the first steps, that in the past have not been taken.

It has not blown away anything yet. It's been a week. But some people, in positions of power and authority, and their advocates would, really, really like us to think it has. Don't let them.
 
But what happens if someone's loved one is in a building they just set on fire? Or a family restaurant is now trashed, literally 24 hours after they were reallowed to open post-quarantine - and have no money left to fix the damage? I read that someone purposely threw a lit stick into a trailer with live horses. What did those poor horses ever do to die that horribly?

imo, it absolutely takes away from the good work/points made. The right to protest a terrible misjustice is 100% justified - and protestors need and deserve as many advocates on their side as possible - including influential ones who carry weight with politicians in power. But their chance of getting that support erodes the more the violence continues. Kudos to protestors who get that and are trying to stop the mayhem.

One local paper had an editorial excusing all the violence as justified due to "built up anger".
If we give one group a pass to risk lives and livelihoods and steal goods from stores because we believe their anger is justified and they deserve to blow off steam, that's a clear message to every group who may also have justifiable anger over a misjustice. Go for it. It works.

I don't agree that the majority of the violence is happening from the same people trying to make good points and progress. I think it's important to separate the two. How many peaceful protestors do you think are then letting it loose at night and looting and lighting things on fire?

And I don't know the answer to your first question. That's part of the problem. Of course, I don't want to see buildings burned down, livelihoods lost, people seriously injured. But it got to this point organically. Control was lost. How do we gain it back without exacerbating the problem? I don't know.

I do think that in a lot of ways, this was going to happen eventually, because people can only take being mistreated, underrepresented and held to different standards for so long. That is what got us here. Do the people who are more concerned about stolen sneakers and Diary Queen being damaged also feel up to doing the work to prevent this from continuing to be a thing? Because it does sometimes seem like it's more a "that used to be a Foot Locker" than "if we had taken these concerns seriously earlier, maybe this wouldn't have happened."


You probably shouldn't believe everything you read online. That story has been debunked. I'd like to think most rational people would have been skeptical at the very least.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...eath-live-n1221821/ncrd1222216#liveBlogHeader

I hadn't seen that. Can you point me in the direction of the reason there is a video of cops loading bricks into a pickup truck?
 
True, and there are a lot of white people who remember back WAY beyond Rodney King. Not as far back as people descended from slaves, but there were a LOT of white people involved at many levels in the Civil Rights movement in the 1960's and following years.

Unfortunately, in many cities the memory here is going to be "The George Floyd Riots"...like HE did something wrong.

The violence has already blown away most of the positive intent of the good people of all races. There is not going to be any good come from this -- just polarization.
Agreed. People of all colours helped to end slavery in this country. A new cable movie/show is coming out about John Brown who was definitely an inspiration, albeit a flawed one. Seems to be the case no matter the "radical'' thought. Thomas Paine readily comes to mind as do other lesser known people.

I hope fervently that those who are newly awoken are not discouraged by the violence into thinking the actual cause isn't just. That would be the easy way out.
 
I'm going to try to stay out of the political minutia of this, but I do think people have every right to be concerned and even scared. I'm horrified by the scenes I see unfolding. The CVS and a number of other storefronts across the street from my apartment were looted. Safety and security are not the words that come to mind immediately right now. Obviously, this is not the answer and is not acceptable. No, the Nintendo World store is not responsible for systemic injustices. No, not all the violence can be from outside actors. And, unfortunately, if there were any questions about a second wave of COVID-19, this likely resolves those questions. In the next two weeks, I'm sure we'll see many more cases pop up. I haven't seen much defending of the riots, but defending them is not the right answer in my opinion; they're indefensible. Perhaps some are trying to not let them define the narrative? I don't know.

What I will say is that if you pay any deal of attention to what's actually happening on the ground, you'll see far more instances of peaceful protests and peaceful policing. It becomes quite clear that these instigators and rioters are nowhere near the majority. It also becomes quite clear that these bad actors are either extremists (on both sides; we've seen reports of various extremist groups organizing online) or opportunists. In any moment of chaos (natural disasters for example) in a free society, there's invariably going to be folks taking advantage of and looking for material gain from the situation. However, I do believe the vast majority of people are community-minded and want to help, not hurt, in these moments. If people weren't that way, then we wouldn't be able to have a functioning free society. I've lived through enough hurricanes to vouch for this.

So I don't think it's productive to try to "punish" whole communities because of the actions of a few (some of whom are not even members of those communities). Remember that when many of us were working at home, myself including, a disproportionate amount of folks from those communities were still reporting to work, so we had groceries, deliveries, and medicine. That's, I think, what the pandemic has to do with this, not necessarily that everyone's been "cooped up" but rather that different communities seemed to be facing different risks and with different levels of protection.

Violence by anyone, civilians or law enforcement officials, is unacceptable. The videos shared above are unacceptable. A friend from Australia shared this video (warning: while not expletive, it is hard to watch). Thankfully, another video reveals another Guardsman intervening after the fact, but it's still horrifying to watch and absolutely unacceptable. I have immense respect for those who serve this country in any capacity, but we are better than this. At this moment, we all need to be very careful.

Just like we cannot generalize all police as bad or ill-intentioned, we cannot generalize all protestors as violent rioters. We all have the agency to choose to focus on the destruction or to focus on the injustice. If we as a people are capable enough to send two human beings to space, we as a people should be capable of holding two collective thoughts at the same time: that destruction is unacceptable and that overdue reform is needed.

In the last few days, I've seen so much unproductive arguing on Facebook and social media. People calling each other names and retreating to their readied political corners. If our country were to head south, I'm confident this would be the reason. It would be because we'd have lost our ability to see each other as human beings, because we'd communicate in bites like "Burn it all down" or "Send in the Guard", created for clicks and chyrons, not for nuance, and because we'd forgotten to listen as much as we speak.

Despite all of this, I remain hopeful -- call me young, naive, or shortsighted -- that we will get through these scary moments. These protests may subside in the coming days. When the dust settles, the news cycle will undoubtedly change, but my hope is that the majority (not all but many) at least become more willing to engage, to see our collective humanity, and more willing to feel. I'm inherently an optimist, in which much of my love for Disney is routed, so I'll leave you with a quote from our friend Rafiki in The Lion King: “The past can hurt. But the way I see it, you can either run from it or learn from it.”
 

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