13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[LSUmiss]

Of course not. But, under California law, the family is entitled to a much lesser amount of money for the medical mistake that happened (if indeed there was one....remember, we get to hear only one side of this story because the hospital is forbidden from responding to all the claims made by the family because the family has conveniently not released it from the duty of patient confidentiality, while the family carries on telling ONLY it's side of the story) when she is dead than they would be if she was "alive" but severely damaged. It's all about the amount of money now. The family gets money either way IF they prove negligence....it's just that "alive" scenario nets them much, much more money.

Well sometimes laws are flawed & you have to do what you have to so to make things work. I’m sure an attorney probably advised them. What could possibly be the hospital’s side of the story that makes it not absolute gross negligence that the child died from such a routine procedure in the US?? You kill my child & I’m supposed to walk away with $250K & feel compensated??

 

[mnrose]

Maybe. But were the doctors & hospital administrators black? I don’t know in this case, but here, even when the population served is, the staff usually aren’t. And what does it matter how they feel?? Why are ppl so threatened by the family’s opinions? This is the mom’s/family’s experience. They have the right to feel however they do. They have very likely encountered racism through their lives so it’s probably hard not to see everything through that lens if you see them. If ppl just tried a little to themselves in other ppl’s shoes every now & then, this world would be a better place!

Some of her doctors were black. Some were not. And, yes, the family has every right to feel whatever they are feeling. It does not entitle them to compensation under California law for a "living, but damaged" child....she's dead. Dead. And, the family is entitled to compensation for that death IF they prove negligence. I've got zero issue with that. But, I for one am waiting to hear the hospital's side of things before I decide (based on hearing facts from one side only) that negligence occurred in her care and treatment.

I am not threatened by their opinions. But, neither am I moved by their opinions to conclude that they are correct.

 

[LSUmiss]

It wasn't a routine surgery. Because of Jahai's weight, it was a much more complicated surgery. Part of the "big lie" perpetuated by the family is that this was "routine." No "routine" tonsillectomy takes 4 hours. And, we do not know if the "big bad hospital" failed to take adequate care of her. All we know is the family's version of events. I guarantee you there is another side. But, the hospital cannot tell you it's side. Sometimes, no matter what care is delivered to a patient, they die...even during "routine" surgeries, even when excellent care is given. This is why patients (or their representatives) sign consent forms for surgery spelling out the risks. Jahai is not the only child to die after a tonsillectomy. Heck, people die as the result of "routine" diagnostic testing (colonoscopies come to mind). It does not mean anything "wrong" was done.

Right, but it’s the doctors’ responsibility to adequately explain risks...not just throw forms at them like most places do. If this was a highly complicated risky surgery, I highly doubt a parent would demand it against medical advice. And as far as dying from stuff like colonoscopies, in many cases, there was still negligence...like performing them in surgical centers that are unprepared if emergencies arise. I’ve worked in hospitals. Most of my friends & family are drs or nurses. I’ve seen 1st hand & heard about the 1/2 a$$ crap that goes on in hospitals. It’s actually a miracle more ppl don’t die. Without some really compelling evidence, I’m usually inclined to side with the patient/family.

 

[LSUmiss]

Some of her doctors were black. Some were not. And, yes, the family has every right to feel whatever they are feeling. It does not entitle them to compensation under California law for a "living, but damaged" child....she's dead. Dead. And, the family is entitled to compensation for that death IF they prove negligence. I've got zero issue with that. But, I for one am waiting to hear the hospital's side of things before I decide (based on hearing facts from one side only) that negligence occurred in her care and treatment.

I am not threatened by their opinions. But, neither am I moved by their opinions to conclude that they are correct.

I get that. But, the pp that I responded to said that the family was “racist” & all about $$ & that this was not a thought-provoking article. That is a disturbing commentary IMO.

 

[bcla]

Wow! Money hungry?? Considering their child died from a routine medical procedure, there is no amount of $ that would be too much! Racist?? There are several studies (which the article kind of mentions) that show that African-American patients often receive subpar medical care & their concerns are often dismissed despite their insurance type. Sure she’s been dead but it’s really sad that anyone would think the article is not at least thought-provoking.

The issue is that there’s a cap on medical malpractice “noneconomic” damages in California. It’s $250,000. But actual damages (continued care) can be considerably higher, but that has to remain in a trust to pay for care. I’ve heard of cases with the same hospital where a patient died and they settled for millions to pay for lifetime care. If they can reverse the determination of death, then they can try to sue for the cost of continued care, even if she eventually “dies”.

Their former attorney was using this case to lobby for a ballot proposition that would have increased the cap to $1 million. I’ve heard his ads on the radio, and he uses his own kid to try and humanize himself. I still think he’s a greasy slime bucket.

I personally don’t believe the hospital did anything wrong, but they’re willing to settle for the capped amount. I’ve taken my child to that hospital. I went to that hospital as a child. They are considered the Mecca of children’s hospitals in Northern California, and their merger with UC San Francisco only cements that. I’ve seen nothing but first class treatment there. People come from all around because they’ve first rate. I was told to directly take my kid to their emergency room because they’re the best for kids. It’s in an area with a lot of poorer black families and I’ve seen how they care for everyone professionally.

 

[mnrose]

Well sometimes laws are flawed & you have to do what you have to so to make things work. I’m sure an attorney probably advised them. What could possibly be the hospital’s side of the story that makes it not absolute gross negligence that the child died from such a routine procedure in the US?? You kill my child & I’m supposed to walk away with $250K & feel compensated??

That is the law. By the same token, if my child died, I'd not feel "compensated" by ANY amount of money. And, again, this was NOT a routine surgery. It was an extensive surgery, and involved two additional procedures IN ADDITION to removal of the tonsils. https://www.overlawyered.com/2013/12/jahi-mcmaths-routine-tonsillectomy/

 

[bcla]

I get that. But, the pp that I responded to said that the family was “racist” & all about $$ & that this was not a thought-provoking article. That is a disturbing commentary IMO.

I don’t know about racist, but all about the money I can accept. Right now they can indefinitely tap into Medicaid in a New Jersey, but if they can get the death certificate rescinded they can try and collect cash in California. I really believe that’s what this is about.

 

[mnrose]

I get that. But, the pp that I responded to said that the family was “racist” & all about $$ & that this was not a thought-provoking article. That is a disturbing commentary IMO.

I don't think the article is thought provoking. It has a point of view. I am much more swayed by the DocBastard blog post linked above. Have you read that? I've read both. One speaks more to me than the other.

 

[LSUmiss]

That is the law. By the same token, if my child died, I'd not feel "compensated" by ANY amount of money. And, again, this was NOT a routine surgery.

And maybe that’s where the discussion should occur. Was the family adequately informed of the risks & benefits of this surgery. And, why would a dr recommend a risky surgery for tonsillitis or whatever?? Her condition was not life or death.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

That is the law. By the same token, if my child died, I'd not feel "compensated" by ANY amount of money. And, again, this was NOT a routine surgery.

I agree with you.

 

[bcla]

That is the law. By the same token, if my child died, I'd not feel "compensated" by ANY amount of money. And, again, this was NOT a routine surgery.

With any major surgery a patient is always informed of the risks, which can include anything up to death.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

And maybe that’s where the discussion should occur. Was the family adequately informed of the risks & benefits of this surgery. And, why would a dr recommend a risky surgery for tonsillitis or whatever?? Her condition was not life or death.

Orrrrrrrrr her family was fully informed, agreed, and pushed for the surgery. That kind of thing happens too... It's not just all of these crazy, uncaring doctors making mistakes all willy nilly.

 

[LSUmiss]

I don't think the article is thought provoking. It has a point of view. I am much more swayed by the DocBastard blog post linked above. Have you read that? I've read both. One speaks more to me than the other.

Yes. I read both. I think I interpreted the pp to mean that the article brought up some thought-provoking ideas.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

And maybe that’s where the discussion should occur. Was the family adequately informed of the risks & benefits of this surgery. And, why would a dr recommend a risky surgery for tonsillitis or whatever?? Her condition was not life or death.

I'm sure there was a reason the surgery was considered in the first place.

It's a tragic situation all around but why all the hate for the doctors when we don't know exactly what happened?

 

[LSUmiss]

Orrrrrrrrr her family was fully informed, agreed, and pushed for the surgery. That kind of thing happens too... It's not just all of these crazy, uncaring doctors making mistakes all willy nilly.

Possibly. But, that has not been my experience in healthcare. I have seen many drs push procedures that were risky. And informed consent is usually a joke. Often the dr isn’t even who goes over that with patient. Usually patients are given a pile of papers to sign by the front desk staff. It’s not that they’re uncaring, but I think they very much get caught up in their procedures that they often forget about the patient.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Possibly. But, that has not been my experience in healthcare. I have seen many drs push procedures that were risky. And informed consent is usually a joke. Often the dr isn’t even who goes over that with patient. Usually patients are given a pile of papers to sign by the front desk staff. It’s not that they’re uncaring, but I think they very much get caught up in their procedures that they often forget about the patient.

That's YOUR experience. I've had the opposite and seen the opposite many times.

 

[LSUmiss]

I'm sure there was a reason the surgery was considered in the first place.

It's a tragic situation all around but why all the hate for the doctors when we don't know exactly what happened?

It’s not that I have hate for them. It’s that I believe there was a huge mistake somewhere even thought I’m sure it was unintentional. But, if you mess up that bad, you have to deal with the consequences. It just doesn’t make sense that a parent would choose something so risky if they were adequately informed. And like I said, having been in on the inside, I can absolutely see something negligent could have happened.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

It’s not that I have hate for them. It’s that I believe there was a huge mistake somewhere even thought I’m sure it was unintentional. But, if you mess up that bad, you have to deal with the consequences. It just doesn’t make sense that a parent would choose something so risky if they were adequately informed. And like I said, having been in on the inside, I can absolutely see something negligent could have happened.

No one has said it COULDN'T have.

I'm stepping out of this. It's clear you've formed your opinion.

 

[mnrose]

I'm sure there was a reason the surgery was considered in the first place.

It's a tragic situation all around but why all the hate for the doctors when we don't know exactly what happened?

IIRC, Jahai had sleep apnea, which was pretty severe....and can, in fact, be life threatening.

 

[LSUmiss]

That's YOUR experience. I've had the opposite and seen the opposite many times.

True. But, it also coicindes with the things you hear & read about like in this case & countless cases of hospital & healthcare negligence all over. Laws & insurance policies are designed to combat some of these things b/c they’ve happened so often. And being a patient & working in facilities is also a much different experience.