13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[LSUmiss]

IIRC, Jahai had sleep apnea, which was pretty severe....and can, in fact, be life threatening.

Agreed. So my question is why was she a candidate for the surgery? I’ve know drs who refuse to do surgeries b/c they’re too risky despite what the patient wants.

 

[LSUmiss]

No one has said it COULDN'T have.

I'm stepping out of this. It's clear you've formed your opinion.

The pp that I responded to in the beginning did basically say that.

 

[mnrose]

It’s not that I have hate for them. It’s that I believe there was a huge mistake somewhere even thought I’m sure it was unintentional. But, if you mess up that bad, you have to deal with the consequences. It just doesn’t make sense that a parent would choose something so risky if they were adequately informed. And like I said, having been in on the inside, I can absolutely see something negligent could have happened.

Again, we DO NOT know what discussions occurred before the surgery and what her mother was told about the risks or alternatives. It's ALL speculation because all we have is what mom says. And mom has refused to let the hospital talk. That is quite telling, don't you think? If the case is so clear cut, the hospital giving it's side of the situation would make it even more so, right? Unless the family is hiding something. And, certainly something *could* have happened that was wrong. It's just that I'm unwilling to draw that conclusion in the absence of all the facts. Moreover, even accepting that the hospital was grossly negligent and completely botched the procedure, it still doesn't change the fact that she is dead. No amount of wishing and hoping and speculating about the reason she is dead will change that.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Agreed. So my question is why was she a candidate for the surgery? I’ve know drs who refuse to do surgeries b/c they’re too risky despite what the patient wants.

The surgery was supposed to alleviate the sleep apnea.

 

[mnrose]

Agreed. So my question is why was she a candidate for the surgery? I’ve know drs who refuse to do surgeries b/c they’re too risky despite what the patient wants.

Sigh. If this case goes to trial, we might learn all of that. Right now, we don't know. And unless Mrs. McMath releases the hospital from it's duty of confidentiality, we will never know. I will say again, there's a reason she refuses to allow the hospital to talk.

 

[LSUmiss]

Sigh. If this case goes to trial, we might learn all of that. Right now, we don't know. And unless Mrs. McMath releases the hospital from it's duty of confidentiality, we will never know. I will say again, there's a reason she refuses to allow the hospital to talk.

I find that strange b/c it goes to trial the hospital will definitely be able to present its side. What’s the point of not releasing them?

I would definitely be interested in the hospital’s response. My only point in even responding was b/c of what the pp said.
My point is:
-there are absolutely racial disparities in healthcare & many things nationwide
-wanting significant compensation for a dead child is understandable
-and the healthcare industry has some major issues with negligence nationwide that do need to be addressed

So, IMO, the article was thought-provoking in that it brought up some of these topics.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I work in surgery and no self respecting surgeon would perform a risky surgery without explaining EVERYTHING. Especially a kid.

Yes black children have been found to receive subpar healthcare. I don’t think this is one of those times.

Even simple surgeries can have complications. Not only because of negligence by the surgeon but sometimes there’s an underlying issue with the patient no one knew about until it surfaced during surgery.

We have patients who we tell we won’t touch until they lose weight. It’s not worth the risk with anesthesia. Add in sleep apnea and forget it. We require lots of clearances abd even then the surgeon decides if he will do surgery.

Some surgeons will turn away surgeries if the risk of complications is too high. Some will go forward and take the risk especially with Kids because they feel they should give the kid a better chance for their future.

Lots of parents can’t let go of their kids even when told they are brain dead. It’s an awful thing. I’ve never seen anyone go this far.

I don’t know if they’re money hungry or truly feel wronged and can’t accept their daughter is dead. I won’t judge on them suing the hospital because I’ve never been in their shoes. But i do find it ridiculous that they’ve kept her “alive” this long. It shouldn’t be allowed.

 

[Southernmiss]

Some of the questions currently being discussed here were hashed out earlier in this thread when the saga began in 2013.

Might be helpful to refresh some memories.

 

[Marchand63]

True. But, it also coicindes with the things you hear & read about like in this case & countless cases of hospital & healthcare negligence all over. Laws & insurance policies are designed to combat some of these things b/c they’ve happened so often. And being a patient & working in facilities is also a much different experience.

So when the Drs & her family consulted you --- oh wait, really

 

[MamaBelle4]

But i do find it ridiculous that they’ve kept her “alive” this long. It shouldn’t be allowed.

I completely agree. I recently had a minor surgery and had to have a breathing tube during the course of the surgery, which was less than an hour. My throat hurt, and I mean hurt, for days afterwards. Just that one tiny thing for such a short time. How much pain would their daughter be in could she be aware of it?

I'm not going to pretend I know what I'd do, because I don't. But I certainly agree that keeping someone alive solely through machines for 5 years is wrong and shouldn't be allowed.

 

[LSUmiss]

So when the Drs & her family consulted you --- oh wait, really

I don’t get your point?? Of course, I wasn’t there. Don’t we all usually comment on threads based on our own experiences? Shoulda known better than to even bother to comment about this on this board when race is involved at all. The pp said the family was racist. That’s what caught my attention to comment. Really? Some ppl have been so protected by their own white privilege that they just are unable to comprehend how much race can & does influence outcomes in this country.

 

[Marchand63]

I don’t get your point?? Of course, I wasn’t there. Don’t we all usually comment on threads based on our own experiences? Shoulda known better than to even bother to comment about this on this board when race is involved at all. The pp said the family was racist. That’s what caught my attention to comment. Really? Some ppl have been so protected by their own white privilege that they just are unable to comprehend how much race can & does influence outcomes in this country.

Not about race you seem to think you are more knowledgeable then her medical team, that they made all decisions on her race only. Sorry just ridiculously presumptuous since you get there legal vent only. Their side seems to be only on the monetary side.

 

[LSUmiss]

Not about race you seem to think you are more knowledgeable then her medical team, that they made all decisions on her race only. Sorry just ridiculously presumptuous since you get there legal vent only. Their side seems to be only on the monetary side.

Not more knowledgeable but also not naive enough to believe that there are not major mess ups in healthcare all the time. Wish I had the experiences that allow me to believe that everyone does their best all the time & bad stuff just happens & that’s it’s not ever related to $$ or cutting corners or negligence or whatever. Might not be the case here, but it is also entirely possible that it is. Healthcare is a business in this country just like WDW & other businesses & they operate similarly at times & that doesn’t always work our for the consumer. And, I completely understand the family wanting as much compensation as possible. I would. I just find it doubtful that ppl would just shrug their shoulders & walk away & say “oh well stuff happens” if this were their family.

Nowhere near this, but I had the unfortunate experience of a facility in my area drag out cancer treatment for my dad b/c of insurance, paper work & other administrative crap despite our demands to treat. We don’t know if it would have given him any more time b/c
of the type of cancer he had. But, b/c of this & so much more that happened, we don’t ever get to know b/c he died before he got any treatment. The drs did not care in this case. Downright told us it takes 3 weeks or more to get approval for insurance for the type of chemo they wanted to use & so we just had to wait & hope. We thought that must mean the cancer was not that advanced if they weren’t concerned about urgency, but, nope, bottom line was $$. None of it comes close to proving malpractice or negligence so there is nothing we can do. But, if there was a way to make ppl pay for their ineptness, we would have.

Just a small thing that happened on top of this, the hospital then sent him a letter in the mail a yr later saying that his oncologist was retiring & to call to schedule with new one. Problem is he had been dead over a yr & died in their care. Unacceptable. If you can’t get something that minor straight then I don’t think it’s a far stretch to be skeptical of your ability to deliver services. My experience is not isolated. This kind of stuff happens all the time all over the country. Consider yourself lucky if you have not encourtered this type of thing. And, we are educated informed patients/family with advanced degrees many in the medical field. There are plenty of ppl like my MIL (who has had other similar experiences at other facilities) who are less educated & less able to advocate for themselves.

 

[lsyorke]

Nowhere near this, but I had the unfortunate experience of a facility in my area drag out cancer treatment for my dad b/c of insurance, paper work & other administrative crap despite our demands to treat. We don’t know if it would have given him any more time b/c
of the type of cancer he had. But, b/c of this & so much more that happened, we don’t ever get to know b/c he died before he got any treatment. The drs did not care in this case. Downright told us it takes 3 weeks or more to get approval for insurance for the type of chemo they wanted to use & so we just had to wait & hope. We thought that must mean the cancer was not that advanced if they weren’t concerned about urgency, but, nope, bottom line was $$. None of it comes close to proving malpractice or negligence so there is nothing we can do. But, if there was a way to make ppl pay for their ineptness, we would have.

Just a small thing that happened on top of this, the hospital then sent him a letter in the mail a yr later saying that his oncologist was retiring & to call to schedule with new one. Problem is he had been dead over a yr & died in their care. Unacceptable. If you can’t get something that minor straight then I don’t think it’s a far stretch to be skeptical of your ability to deliver services. My experience is not isolated. This kind of stuff happens all the time all over the country. Consider yourself lucky if you have not encourtered this type of thing. And, we are educated informed patients/family with advanced degrees many in the medical field. There are plenty of ppl like my MIL (who has had other similar experiences at other facilities) who are less educated & less able to advocate for themselves.

What you are describing happens every day in todays health care. It has nothing to do with race, it has everything to do with insurance companies calling the shots. One can't "demand to treat", unless they are willing to pay for it. Your experience is clouding your opinion, which is understandable.

 

[Marchand63]

Not more knowledgeable but also not naive enough to believe that there are not major mess ups in healthcare all the time. Wish I had the experiences that allow me to believe that everyone does their best all the time & bad stuff just happens & that’s it’s not ever related to $$ or cutting corners or negligence or whatever. Might not be the case here, but it is also entirely possible that it is. Healthcare is a business in this country just like WDW & other businesses & they operate similarly at times & that doesn’t always work our for the consumer. And, I completely understand the family wanting as much compensation as possible. I would. I just find it doubtful that ppl would just shrug their shoulders & walk away & say “oh well stuff happens” if this were their family.

Nowhere near this, but I had the unfortunate experience of a facility in my area drag out cancer treatment for my dad b/c of insurance, paper work & other administrative crap despite our demands to treat. We don’t know if it would have given him any more time b/c
of the type of cancer he had. But, b/c of this & so much more that happened, we don’t ever get to know b/c he died before he got any treatment. The drs did not care in this case. Downright told us it takes 3 weeks or more to get approval for insurance for the type of chemo they wanted to use & so we just had to wait & hope. We thought that must mean the cancer was not that advanced if they weren’t concerned about urgency, but, nope, bottom line was $$. None of it comes close to proving malpractice or negligence so there is nothing we can do. But, if there was a way to make ppl pay for their ineptness, we would have.

Just a small thing that happened on top of this, the hospital then sent him a letter in the mail a yr later saying that his oncologist was retiring & to call to schedule with new one. Problem is he had been dead over a yr & died in their care. Unacceptable. If you can’t get something that minor straight then I don’t think it’s a far stretch to be skeptical of your ability to deliver services. My experience is not isolated. This kind of stuff happens all the time all over the country. Consider yourself lucky if you have not encourtered this type of thing. And, we are educated informed patients/family with advanced degrees many in the medical field. There are plenty of ppl like my MIL (who has had other similar experiences at other facilities) who are less educated & less able to advocate for themselves.

Ok now I understand your bias against doctors & healthcare system. Same reason I am biased against nail salons.

 

[LSUmiss]

What you are describing happens every day in todays health care. It has nothing to do with race, it has everything to do with insurance companies calling the shots. One can't "demand to treat", unless they are willing to pay for it. Your experience is clouding your opinion, which is understandable.

All of our experiences influence our opinions. I understand it’s a complicated issue. But, race also can effect things as has been documented in other cases. It’s different discussions. Insurance has nothing to do with sending a dead man who died in their care a letter to schedule an appt with a new oncologist. I had seen this kind of stuff long before it effected us so it wasn’t a surprise unfortunately. It wasn’t just waiting on the insurance co. Like I said, so much more happened too. It’s a business...a lucrative business at that. So just like any business, sometimes practices come back to bite them & they have to pay & should. Might not be the case with this family. But, I can understand their wanting someone to pay.

 

[LSUmiss]

Ok now I understand your bias against doctors & healthcare system. Same reason I am biased against nail salons.

How dismissive & rude. But, from previous posts I have seen you make in other threads, I am not surprised. It’s not a bias against anyone. It’s an opinion based on personal experiences INCLUDING working in the system before it effected our family. Most of my friends & family are nurses or doctors. They have seen it too & acknowledge it. The system is messed up on the whole. Good for you that you have not had the opportunity to experience this. Doesn’t mean that you get to discount others’ experiences.

 

[Disney1fan2002]

Some of you are talking about how the fact that Jahi had sleep apnea made her a high risk surgery patient and that maybe the surgery should not have been done. She did not code on the surgery table. She got through surgery just fine. She was awake and alert post-op. Her family suctioned her without permission, and had her talking and laughing, when they were told she needs to remain quiet. The family has admitted to those charges. There is another story out there that said her family fed her a hamburger. This the family does deny.

Jahi coded after a post-op bleed. She became brain dead when her brain went without oxygen during the code. She did not die from having sleep apnea during the surgery.

 

[LSUmiss]

Some of you are talking about how the fact that Jahi had sleep apnea made her a high risk surgery patient and that maybe the surgery should not have been done. She did not code on the surgery table. She got through surgery just fine. She was awake and alert post-op. Her family suctioned her without permission, and had her talking and laughing, when they were told she needs to remain quiet. The family has admitted to those charges. There is another story out there that said her family fed her a hamburger. This the family does deny.

Jahi coded after a post-op bleed. She became brain dead when her brain went without oxygen during the code. She did not die from having sleep apnea during the surgery.

Now that would change things. Where did that info come from if the hospital hasn’t been allowed to comment?

 

[Disney1fan2002]

Now that would change things. Where did that info come from if the hospital hasn’t been allowed to comment?

It's a known fact that Jahi was out of surgery and awake and alert before her bleed. That is out there with any google search. As far as the suctioning and feeding, it is just info I picked up through various discussion boards. Many people have information from the original court filings, that the family may or may not have had sealed, but at first the court records were out there. Then there is this from a message board poster:

About the bites of hamburger you are referring to. It was on national TV that grandmother was feeding her bites of her favorite food: hamburgers. Grandmother stated,"she started choking, so I suctioned her. I am a registered nurse." Very quickly the lawyer tapped the grandmother on the shoulder. The grandmother stopped talking. The camera panned to the uncle. When the camera zoomed back out, the grandmother was gone and another relative was sitting in her spot. I saw this with my own eyes and heard this with my own ears.