2021 Point Reallocation

[drusba]

But they really aren’t. Actually the GV and 2 Bedrooms (the rooms that matter as without dedicated units for the 1 and studio those are free to move without limit) are both cheaper for 2021 compared to 2020 and more so than what would be explained by 2/29/20

Here is the full year for 2020:
View attachment 458269

Here is the full year for 2021:
View attachment 458270

As you can see a drop in points across the board. While I used dvcrequest.com for the calculations it matches what I did manually yesterday. Perhaps you misread the charts as each day (except a small few) the points went down for the GV between 2020 and 2021.

This only begs the question why is the total points required in 2021 so much less than the points required in 2020 to book the entire resort.

Strange what DVC did and unknown why. If you take your numbers for just 2BRs and GVs and times them by the number of 2BRs (46) and GVs (2), you get a total decrease in points of close to 36,000, which has not been offset by an equal increase. You look at the point chart and the concept that there is a greater decrease than any possible increase just stares you in the face, so unlikely it was overlooked internally unless it was intentional.

 

[crvetter]

Strange what DVC did and unknown why. If you take your numbers for just 2BRs and GVs and times them by the number of 2BRs (46) and GVs (2), you get a total decrease in points of close to 36,000, which has not been offset by an equal increase. You look at the point chart and the concept that there is a greater decrease than any possible increase just stares you in the face, so unlikely it was overlooked internally unless it was intentional.

Yeah that’s the part I already wrote to ask about. As an owner there, I’m curious why the overall points dropped. The points now required, 2021, are almost exactly the total sold for the entire resort that seems odd since they sold 51 not 52 use weeks so I would have expected the total to book the entire resort to be greater by 1/52 of what was sold.

 

[drusba]

You seem to be choosing your words very carefully. Are you unconvinced that all of the marketing of "3BRs for the price of 2!" was false advertising, or that the balancing of points between vacation homes was in violation of POS terms? I am convinced that we didn't see a reversion to 2020 charts because while they were legally within their right to increase lockoff premiums to no end (they would just have to prove with data that it was justified and served the interest of the greater membership) things could've gotten really messy around the vacation home shifts, dragging in changes seen in the 2013 reallocation at SSR, maybe even BWV categories.

So it reads that past indiscretions are not tacitly accepted by virtue of not pursuing legal recourse at the time. Oh that's good. I can retire that particular tinfoil hat then.

As to choosing words carefully, I have been doing that for over 40 years whenever discusing the potential outcome of any legal case. It started with a law professor that provided us with a truism for what he used to tell clients seeking to pursue litigation: In the world of breach of agreement claims, you should never assume more than an 80% chance of winning no mater how strong you believe your case, and never assume less than a 20% chance of wining no matter how weak you believe your case, but what you do have is a virtual certainty that it will likely be very costly to get through the entire case unless both parties going in are reasonable about settlement.

 

[skier_pete]

So I just wanted to let everyone know that we recorded the DVC Show which should be posted next Monday about the new point charts. @Bing Showei joined live in the studio (I'm hella jealous.) but we talked a LOT about the 2020 revoked point charts and the changes to this years point charts. We didn't get into VGC or VB at all. But I encourage everyone to check it out next Monday. (They are also doing a show on Riviera that I won't be involved with because I am not there - but Pete has a Grand Villa for opening day of Riviera.) Sorry I don't usually pimp the show in the threads - but I thought this group would have a higher interest in the show than most.

 

[ziravan]

I also wonder how many guaranteed weeks are used as actual guaranteed weeks... If only DVC would give us access to their data, haha. I'm guessing we will use our Riviera GW only ~50% of the years (The GW was mostly a hedge for resale and the 2020 chart fiasco also had me frightened and I wanted some kind of fallback). I'm guessing it's not that uncommon to use the points (versus the week) and this will also make it less of a pain for DVC if some GWs get a "deal".

I have never used my Poly guarantee and don’t plan to do so for some time.

We bought our Jersey week fixed week making an educated guess where demand will be in 20 years.

Our discussion started with the idea that week 49/50 were the high demand now: will those weeks be reallocated? Should we buy one of those weeks and lock in rate that would look much better post-reallocation?

We decided that it was a good bet the trend would change some but that cooler weather would still impact. Plus. Our week overlaps MNSSHP and MVMCP depending on how the week falls.

We took a guess at week 44 as a more popular week in the future.

In the meantime, we don’t need the guarantee to book it now.

 

[Lorana]

While I get the seasons/days you are interested in went up but this statement without context could be misleading to other readers. For the WDW resorts the cost to book a studio for an entire year by all accounts seems to have stayed the same (or within tolerance). So while the seasons/days you were interested in the studio cost went up there was an equal offset in other nights to bring the cost for the entire year the same (or differently phrased the average nightly point cost over the entire year hasn’t changed from 2020 to 2021).

The entire year for totality if points across all room types, sure. I haven’t done the math, but it’s likely to be true.

but it is also true that they balanced it in such a way that the contract I bought no longer allows me a week any time of year except Christmas and Easter without borrowing points. And that also matters, and is the thing I’m unhappy about.

Except I think the point was you always borrow. In theory you should not run out of borrowed points for 43 years.

Sure. But then I’m out a lot of points in my final year. I do get there are ways around this. I was lamenting the fact that my contract which WAS enough without borrowing to cover any week except Christmas and New Years no longer does.

Also this is for BRV so my contract ends in 23 years. :-(

 

[MickeyMouse3!]

Working for a school system and having to take vacation on their schedule, our future trip jumped up nearly 100 points with the new adjustments. Guess for now we'll do the bank and borrow that we were lucky to avoid, so far anyway. Not happy, but I get why they're doing it. Maybe we'll benefit more when we retire.

 

[sethschroeder]

Sure. But then I’m out a lot of points in my final year. I do get there are ways around this. I was lamenting the fact that my contract which WAS enough without borrowing to cover any week except Christmas and New Years no longer does.

Also this is for BRV so my contract ends in 23 years. :-(

Correct which is why I said you would still have like 65 points left in your final year. This also doesn't account for any shifts the other way where you save points or a change in your booking pattern.

You are talking about taking a 3/4 day trip instead of a 7 days trip in 23 years and that is the ONLY impact you have for the life of your contract. I think you are overthinking this.

 

[zavandor]

I do see the ocean view inn rooms swapped the point costs with the studios for the entire year.

I'm going to go with the easiest explanation: someone made a mistake when copying and pasting and they'll rectify it soon.

 

[Lorana]

Working for a school system and having to take vacation on their schedule, our future trip jumped up nearly 100 points with the new adjustments. Guess for now we'll do the bank and borrow that we were lucky to avoid, so far anyway. Not happy, but I get why they're doing it. Maybe we'll benefit more when we retire.

I hear you!
(Don’t work for a school system but I have school age kids). I know it’ll be better when I’m not tied to the school vacations but it’s sad to see that our points don’t carry in those dates as they used to.

You are talking about taking a 3/4 day trip instead of a 7 days trip in 23 years and that is the ONLY impact you have for the life of your contract. I think you are overthinking this.

it’s still points lost, and presently requires me to borrow which could impact future plans as I’d have less points to bank/borrow (also we’re planning a big trip in 2021 and so this does have immediate impact).

I think it’s fair to be a little sad that a contract that once covered all week excepts premium no longer does, and that the weeks it doesn’t are all (except for 2 weeks) during school vacations. It’s not like I’m raging and suddenly hating on Disney for doing this, or screaming that they should change the points charts. If you’re not impacted negatively at all, good for you!

But it did have a small yet meaningful (while my kids are in school and for my 3021 plans) impact on me. I cannot borrow 2022 points and have 2 weeks in 2021. I’ll need to use one time use points, rent points, or shorten the trip, and that’s frustrating if understandable.

 

[crvetter]

I'm going to go with the easiest explanation: someone made a mistake when copying and pasting and they'll rectify it soon.

Yeah dvcrequest.com is incorrect (exactly as you suggested they messed up copying) in it's calculations for VB for sure. I manually did them and this is the totals I get for each Room type at VB for 2020 and 2021. I know David's is a sponsor of the board so if someone knows their DIS tag they should tag them to let them know of the issue.

	Inn Room - Standard	Studio	Inn Room - Ocean	One Bedroom	Two Bedroom	Grand Villa
2020​	5,567	6,238	6,880	11,387	15,277	28,556
2021​	5,505	6,226	6,932	11,370	15,249	28,499

So nothing really off on this resort either @drusba (where you relying on dvcrequest.com for the calculation in your early comments, just checking I'm not missing anything?). So it looks like so far the odd one out is VGC with all room totals dropping for the entire year, thus decreasing the total number of points required to book the resort. So either DVCMC has mistakenly been charging members too much for VGC or is mistakenly charging too little in 2021. Looking at the raw point charts I see point movements up on one period for each Inn Room offset by a point movement down for one period in the same Inn Room Category. So makes sense the point charts would be similar.

So overall I think DVCMC might have admitted they can't allocate across room types since all the ones brought up here have been shown to be consistent number of points across the entire year for each room type. Sure maybe in the future they try again. Though that is why members just need to stay vigilant in what they own.

 

[zavandor]

So overall I think DVCMC might have admitted they can't allocate across room types since all the ones brought up here have been shown to be consistent number of points across the entire year for each room type.

But if that is true, shouldn't they revert the changes to:
- THV
- SSR Standard and preferred
- view reclassifications at AKV and BLT
Or are they just going to hope no one questions it? If they did make a mistake in those reallocations, could someone claim damage (because for example they used more points to book a room because of the reallocation)?

 

[moericus]

For BLT and BWV...

This looks like a sneaky way of raising point costs across the board at the expense of about 3 weeks in September (which just happens to be when school starts for every family here).

I don't care for this. Not the end of the world, but greedy and manipulative.

 

[crvetter]

But if that is true, shouldn't they revert the changes to:
- THV
- SSR Standard and preferred
- view reclassifications at AKV and BLT
Or are they just going to hope no one questions it? If they did make a mistake in those reallocations, could someone claim damage (because for example they used more points to book a room because of the reallocation)?

Agree with the THV not being allowed. Views are a bit more questionable as the POS doesn't really dictate them as a Room Type per say and I haven't researched that one too much. I'll have too look at the Room Type vs view in the AKV and BLT POS's to get a better understanding there. But all documentation did say Room Type was the limitation for point reallocations (up until they removed it) was to stay within the same Room Type, and I'm not sure Room Type is inclusive or exclusive of view (basically a single Room Type needs be defined/interpreted to include all views for them to be allowed).

SSR the creation of the Standard and Preferred was good for the membership, though as you say questionable (I'd have to look at more what I said above). And the View reclassifications at AKV and BLT were specifically asked for by members so that one is tricky too.

 

[wishicouldgomoreofte]

Working for a school system and having to take vacation on their schedule, our future trip jumped up nearly 100 points with the new adjustments. Guess for now we'll do the bank and borrow that we were lucky to avoid, so far anyway. Not happy, but I get why they're doing it. Maybe we'll benefit more when we retire.

Jumped up 100 points!??!! Wow! When and where is that future trip that had such a big adjustment?

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

Yeah that’s the part I already wrote to ask about. As an owner there, I’m curious why the overall points dropped. The points now required, 2021, are almost exactly the total sold for the entire resort that seems odd since they sold 51 not 52 use weeks so I would have expected the total to book the entire resort to be greater by 1/52 of what was sold.

I'm a two contract owner at VGC and I just wanted to thank you for doing all this work. Really interesting, and I'm very curious, too. If I'm thinking this through correctly, I assume the 1/52 that was held was used by DVC to have a buffer for rooms that needed to be taken out of service, etc, since they don't do cash rooms. Without that buffer, wouldn't it mean that booking rooms will be even more difficult since those buffer points now have to come from our allotment?

 

[drusba]

Yeah dvcrequest.com is incorrect (exactly as you suggested they messed up copying) in it's calculations for VB for sure. I manually did them and this is the totals I get for each Room type at VB for 2020 and 2021. I know David's is a sponsor of the board so if someone knows their DIS tag they should tag them to let them know of the issue.

	Inn Room - Standard	Studio	Inn Room - Ocean	One Bedroom	Two Bedroom	Grand Villa
2020​	5,567	6,238	6,880	11,387	15,277	28,556
2021​	5,505	6,226	6,932	11,370	15,249	28,499

So nothing really off on this resort either @drusba (where you relying on dvcrequest.com for the calculation in your early comments, just checking I'm not missing anything?). So it looks like so far the odd one out is VGC with all room totals dropping for the entire year, thus decreasing the total number of points required to book the resort. So either DVCMC has mistakenly been charging members too much for VGC or is mistakenly charging too little in 2021. Looking at the raw point charts I see point movements up on one period for each Inn Room offset by a point movement down for one period in the same Inn Room Category. So makes sense the point charts would be similar.

So overall I think DVCMC might have admitted they can't allocate across room types since all the ones brought up here have been shown to be consistent number of points across the entire year for each room type. Sure maybe in the future they try again. Though that is why members just need to stay vigilant in what they own.

Not sure what you are referring to as charts at DVCrequest.com. The Vero Beach charts I got were in the Notifcations section of the DVC website. I got them very quickly after it appeared. I look now and the chart for VB has changed. The initial chart that was there had apparently reversed the nightly points for studios and Ocean View Inn rooms; the new chart reverses that apparent error. In other words, DVC has corrected it since releasing the initial notice and yes it appears to no longer have an issue. Possibly DVC Request simply had the first one put out by DVC.

 

[mustinjourney]

So I just wanted to let everyone know that we recorded the DVC Show which should be posted next Monday about the new point charts. @Bing Showei joined live in the studio (I'm hella jealous.) but we talked a LOT about the 2020 revoked point charts and the changes to this years point charts. We didn't get into VGC or VB at all. But I encourage everyone to check it out next Monday. (They are also doing a show on Riviera that I won't be involved with because I am not there - but Pete has a Grand Villa for opening day of Riviera.) Sorry I don't usually pimp the show in the threads - but I thought this group would have a higher interest in the show than most.

must say I was a little shocked with all the "hate" (using that term somewhat hyperbolically) thrown at VGF by the group in the last episode. Seems like Pete was letting his bad experience at the hotel side negatively color his views of the DVC side.

 

[mustinjourney]

For BLT and BWV...

This looks like a sneaky way of raising point costs across the board at the expense of about 3 weeks in September (which just happens to be when school starts for every family here).

I don't care for this. Not the end of the world, but greedy and manipulative.

it's not greedy and manipulative if it was done in an effort to balance out demand. For people that visited in May and early June, their points went down significantly.

 

[crvetter]

Not sure what you are referring to as charts at DVCrequest.com. The Vero Beach charts I got were in the Notifcations section of the DVC website. I got them very quickly after it appeared. I look now and the chart for VB has changed. The initial chart that was there had apparently reversed the nightly points for studios and Ocean View Inn rooms; the new chart reverses that apparent error. In other words, DVC has corrected it since releasing the initial notice and yes it appears to no longer have an issue. Possibly DVC Request simply had the first one put out by DVC.

Got it. I was only curious because dvcrequest.com must have used the original charts (as you suggested). Which is where I used to get the quick calculations done yesterday. Then when I looked this morning to do it myself DVC must have already corrected the error, so I noticed the discrepancy.