2021 Point Reallocation

[zavandor]

Next question! Do you know then if Florida timeshare law deals with the lock off premium? Since DVC says that can be done, does that language match?

I have found zero mentions of the lockoff premium in the Florida Statutes (not saying there isn't, I'm far from an expert and it might be there under a definition I couldn't catch). Also I have found very few mentions of point timeshares at all. Neither I found rules about how to calculate the resort points available for sale (for lockoff is it really right that only the whole unit counts and not the two separate lockoff?).
I think the Florida Satutes were written during a time when weekly timeshare were not just the norm, but the only option. So the way rules for weekly timeshares translate into point systems are very much open to interpretation.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert, just a normal person with no legal background reading laws and contracts and trying to understand them using common sense. I'm sure someone who is expert of timeshare laws can answer easily all those questions.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Disclaimer: I am not an expert, just a normal person with no legal background reading laws and contracts and trying to understand them using common sense. I'm sure someone who is expert of timeshare laws can answer easily all those questions.

You honestly had me fooled.

 

[zavandor]

You honestly had me fooled.

But I've invented boardgames so I'm used to proofread a rulebook trying to find holes and ambiguous rules to fix. Does it count?

 

[Chuck S]

You're right, but if the constraint were just the units, there is the chance they could have some wiggle room. For example I've read (not sure about that) that OKW units are the whole buildings. Haven't all buildings the same floor plan?

No, OKW buildings do not all have the same floor plan.

 

[drusba]

But I've invented boardgames so I'm used to proofread a rulebook trying to find holes and ambiguous rules to fix. Does it count?

Then you are a lawyer.

 

[Sandisw]

I have found zero mentions of the lockoff premium in the Florida Statutes (not saying there isn't, I'm far from an expert and it might be there under a definition I couldn't catch). Also I have found very few mentions of point timeshares at all. Neither I found rules about how to calculate the resort points available for sale (for lockoff is it really right that only the whole unit counts and not the two separate lockoff?).
I think the Florida Satutes were written during a time when weekly timeshare were not just the norm, but the only option. So the way rules for weekly timeshares translate into point systems are very much open to interpretation.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert, just a normal person with no legal background reading laws and contracts and trying to understand them using common sense. I'm sure someone who is expert of timeshare laws can answer easily all those questions.

Todays reading will be that statute! Amazing the time one has when retired! Lol

 

[bookwormde]

I finally got through the changes in detail

While I am usually a critic of much of DVC management, in this rebalancing and adding addional seasons they appear to have actually be meeting thier respinsiblity under POS and state statute. I watch demand quite closely and they hit all the major under and over demand as far as seasons go. Of course becouse predicting human nature is not a science only time will tell where there is an overshoot or undershoot.

It is clear that DVC has the right algorithus sreadsheets to be accurate in mainting total points stable now which did not exist with the AKV fiasco

One note is that counting points from the year before a change and the year after is not the standard as I understind it, The point at the year of inital declaration before and after is likley the best practice when anylizing

Hopefully they will address the other 2 major demand imbalance issues:

Characteristic views, locatios amenities etc

overdemand: BVW standard and boardwalk view, AKV value and concierge etc

Of course I still do not understand why catagories of different deamnd have the same point value OKW HH vs other and BVW boardwalk view vs garden

Size based

Overdemand: studios

Underdemand: 1br treehouses many GV and specials, poly and wl waterfront.

not sure if it was intentional but the THV, some GVs and specials did appear to drop to improve demand

Of course I am synical enough to consider that DVC may have messed up the last attempt to address the studio issue in part because keeping the studio points low helps sales since that is what most newbies use studios to consider how good of a value DVC is

As an FYI the value of extra Points from spliting lock offs is supposed to benefit members, though DVC is such a black box who knows

Bill

 

[mustinjourney]

Anyway, in my opinion, it's academic, because regardless of what the POS say, Florida law wins. And the Florida law says that the one-to-one rule is valid at "timeshare unit" level. A "timeshare unit" for the Florida law is a lockable dwelling that is separately conveyed. In a resort like VGF that only has lockoff studios, they have sold guaranteed weeks for studios, so they have conveyed lockoff studios, hence they are, without a doubt, "timeshare units" for the Florida law, so they cannot reallocate across them

very good point -- I hadn't considered what the fixed weeks might have done.

 

[mustinjourney]

Then you are a lawyer.

I thought you had to at least stay at a Holiday Inn Select???

 

[mustinjourney]

As an FYI the value of extra Points from spliting lock offs is supposed to benefit members, though DVC is such a black box who knows

this is true -- however, the breakage that DVD has to send back to the members is capped at like 2%, and according to others, DVD already exceeds that...so the lock-off premium is unlikely to actually help us -- rather -- it just goes straight to DVD's pockets.

That was why the 2020 point chart with increased lock-off premium was such a big deal. If all the breakage money went back to the membership -- then it wouldn't be so bad b/c everyone's MFs would be decreased accordingly.

 

[coaster32]

I find it hard to believe the summer school break period is only Tier 4/5.......but school winter break is higher? Other than Xmas, I cant see summer being anything less than the second most popular time to go.

 

[CarolynFH]

I find it hard to believe the summer school break period is only Tier 4/5.......but school winter break is higher? Other than Xmas, I cant see summer being anything less than the second most popular time to go.

When the first point charts were created and until some relatively few years ago, that was true - summer was the second most popular time to go to the WDW parks, and the points charts reflected that by having high costs during the summer months. But over the last number of years, as Disney has created more reasons to come during the fall and winter (Food & Wine Festival expanded from just a few weeks in November to several months, Halloween parties start in August, Christmas parties, Candlelight Processional, etc.), school districts have increased the number of fall breaks (our grandkids were out for an entire week in October for the first time), and more people are homeschooling or inclined to take their kids out of school, more people have taken advantage of the low points costs in the fall. At the Condo Association meeting yesterday, DVC management showed charts demonstrating how DVC member demand for villas has changed over the years, and summer is far from being the second most popular time to go. The new 2021 points charts reflect that change - more popular times now cost more, less popular times cost less.

If I can find those charts in a format that I can copy and paste here or a link that I can post, I'll do that. I'm sure they're here somewhere.

 

[CarolynFH]

Here are the two charts, taken from DVC News tweets from the meeting.

 

[NoTime42]

When the first point charts were created and until some relatively few years ago, that was true - summer was the second most popular time to go to the WDW parks, and the points charts reflected that by having high costs during the summer months. But over the last number of years, as Disney has created more reasons to come during the fall and winter (Food & Wine Festival expanded from just a few weeks in November to several months, Halloween parties start in August, Christmas parties, Candlelight Processional, etc.), school districts have increased the number of fall breaks (our grandkids were out for an entire week in October for the first time), and more people are homeschooling or inclined to take their kids out of school, more people have taken advantage of the low points costs in the fall. At the Condo Association meeting yesterday, DVC management showed charts demonstrating how DVC member demand for villas has changed over the years, and summer is far from being the second most popular time to go. The new 2021 points charts reflect that change - more popular times now cost more, less popular times cost less.

If I can find those charts in a format that I can copy and paste here or a link that I can post, I'll do that. I'm sure they're here somewhere.

If the twitter link works for you:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1205221942900543491

 

[drusba]

I find it hard to believe the summer school break period is only Tier 4/5.......but school winter break is higher? Other than Xmas, I cant see summer being anything less than the second most popular time to go.

The summer school break period (typically mid-June to mid-August) possibly would be a DVC popular time if DVC could lower the points needed for it a lot more, but it could not do so in this round of adjustments, including because no single night could be changed more than 20% up or down in a single year. As to actual popularity of summer for DVC members, for years it has been one of the lower DVC demand times of the year.

 

[bookwormde]

this is true -- however, the breakage that DVD has to send back to the members is capped at like 2%, and according to others, DVD already exceeds that...so the lock-off premium is unlikely to actually help us -- rather -- it just goes straight to DVD's pockets.

That was why the 2020 point chart with increased lock-off premium was such a big deal. If all the breakage money went back to the membership -- then it wouldn't be so bad b/c everyone's MFs would be decreased accordingly.

If that is in the POS it likely conflicts with at least Florida timeshare statute

 

[Sandisw]

If that is in the POS it likely conflicts with at least Florida timeshare statute

Breakage is capped at 2.5%, and there is language that says there could be a lock off premium in the multi site POS. I am currently in the process of reading the actual statue...its long and legal..,to see if lock off premiums are part of las. But, someone mentioned that most likely those were written more for traditional and not points. I can’t imagine, Disney would have anything that is is a clear violation,

Yes, they did try to increase the lock off, and I think it was a way to stretch their abilities based on that language and realized, after being called on it, they maybe took it too far,

 

[bookwormde]

I have found zero mentions of the lockoff premium in the Florida Statutes (not saying there isn't, I'm far from an expert and it might be there under a definition I couldn't catch). Also I have found very few mentions of point timeshares at all. Neither I found rules about how to calculate the resort points available for sale (for lockoff is it really right that only the whole unit counts and not the two separate lockoff?).
I think the Florida Satutes were written during a time when weekly timeshare were not just the norm, but the only option. So the way rules for weekly timeshares translate into point systems are very much open to interpretation.

.

Statutes do not typically have that level of detail. It would fall under the requirement that the timeshare be opperated in the best interest of the majority of members

Using the excess points (empty units ) and related income for purposed that does not benefit members would likely violate this, especially if the dollars left the timeshare management company

 

[DisneyBB]

This probably has been asked or answered, I did look at the thread but may have missed it. When I bought in 1997 we were told that the total number of points will not change each year, but according to the charts shared it has. How can DVC add more points to the year?

 

[zavandor]

This probably has been asked or answered, I did look at the thread but may have missed it. When I bought in 1997 we were told that the total number of points will not change each year, but according to the charts shared it has. How can DVC add more points to the year?

To which charts are you referring to?
This year the changes are legit, the total number of points to book each room type over the whole year hasn't changed (actually it has changed by a 0.x% but that's within acceptable variance).