cel or sericel

Cruella 66

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
What's the difference between a cel and sericel? We were on the Wonder last week and bought a Pooh and Tigger but I know don't know which kind of cel it was. It just says 'animation art' on the reciept. We also didn't get the cel on the boat...it will be mailed. Has anyone experience with this on the boat? I ask because I haven't read anything good about this company since coming home and researching them. For future referrence...where do you find or purchase these from??? Thank you all! Cindy
 
A production cel is hand-drawn and hand-inked. It is a one of a kind.

Generally a limited edition cel is xerographically lined but hand-inked. Usually a LE cel is serially numbered and has an edition size of 500 or less.

A sericel is a complete mechanical production. The edition size tends to be 1,000 or more and they are not serially numbered.
 
Without getting in to too much detail...

A sericel is mechanically reproduced using super high quality silk screen techniques for the paint. The lines are also mechanically reproduced.

A Limited Edtion Cel is usually a "portrait" scene (that means its a killer scene) and is usually hand painted and in a very short edition.

A production cel is one that was actually photgraphed during the making of a film. They were always hand painted but the line technology changed over the years.

I assume "Animation Art" is the name of a company??? Let me ask how much you paid for the cel? That will pretty much tell me what you bought.
 
Well, unfortunately 'animation art' is what is what our purchase is listed as on the receipt...there are no other details except "Winnie the Pooh: Pooh..." We paid $1230 to Park West At Sea aboard the Disney Wonder a week and a half ago. My mom has several sericels and one clip of film from Cinderella and I love them. I'd like to get some for my house and children but bought on the Wonder in a haze of vacation adreneline. I need to be more educated. I've also learned since coming home PW has a horrible reputation...so I'm a bit nervous about what I'll actually get if anything. :rolleyes1 Cindy
 
Hmmm... I searched Park West At Sea and I understand your concern. WOW, I am really surprised! From what I have read, I can't really guess what you will get.

From what you paid, you could almost have bought two Pooh production cels. I have not followed Disney Animation sites for a while, but this check out to get a feel of what is available...

http://www.firstanimationart.com/9POOH.html

Twenty one years ago, I told John about a specific character I was looking for... It took him 20 years but he found the cel I was looking for last year. I trust him and I have purchased several cells from him over the years.

Please feel free to PM me for more info, questions or other sites that I know are reliable and honest!
 
For that price it could be a production cel or possibly a limited edition cel. If it is shipped to you, there must be a "Certificate of Authenticity" acompanying it that tells what it is.

If it is a production cel it should state at least what it is from (naming a movie or TV show, and possibly even the scene and frame number); if it is a LEC it should give both a serial number and edition size. If a sericel you have been seriously overcharged, paying 3 to 4 times the real value.
 
I was also pretty surprised that Disney would allow a business with such a lousy record on their boat. We stayed at the Poly for eight days before the cruise and there was an art gallery/dealer there too (Wyland Galleries) so we didn't really think twice, trusting the Disney name/brand. At this point we are hoping for the best. I'll let everyone know how it turns out but I don't think we'll be going this route again without research!! Cindy
 
Cindy,
Park West grossly overinflates the value of the artwork they auction on the ships.
Unfortunately it sounds like you were a victim of the overpricing, as they usually have sericels on board (in which case the value would be about 1/3 to 1/4 of what you paid.)
It depends on the actual artwork, but I would be willing to bet that they overinflated the value.
They will ship it to your home...check the piece carefully to make sure it was not damaged in shipment.
Good luck.
Sue Ellen
 
Our animation art arrived today from Park West via Fedex. It's in a really nice frame that has a little scratch. I LOVE the cell and drawing and I'm going to try to attach a picture of it if I can figure this out. It didn't come with any kind of appraisal or paperwork. Shouldn't it come with some sort of certificate of authenticity or numbers? We still don't know if it's a cell or sericell. I was hoping the paperwork would tell us that. We can't figure out how to put a picture on here...does anyone know how??? :confused: Cindy
 
Our certificat of authenticity arrived today and lists the piece we bought as "Hand painted production cel with color background and pencil drawing with facsimile signature of Walt Disney. A unique work" It also has an apparasial from Park West as the appraised value pretty much twice the value we paid for it. How do you find the value of a cel? thanks, Cindy
 
Hmmm..... I assume since you did not make mention, the COA has no numbers. The word "production", means it was used in the process of making a film. Does it say what film it is from on the COA? Could be a feature, a short or something made for TV or a special film.

Since it does not say "Color Production Background", that makes sense. The background is color, but not the original used in the production. If this was a production background, you would have paid a lot more.

To tell you more, I would need to see a pic of the cell. Generally, cells used for TV production have thicker lines than those used for features.

Without seeing the actual piece, I'd say you have a real production cell that was used in something.

If you want to really get an honest appraisal, take a close-up pic, and send it to Jon at the site I previously posted. Use my name if you like but he will be very helpful.
 
An interesting thread.

I was also on a cruise (non-Disney) about two weeks ago and also attending Park West auctions. They had a few pieces of animation art, but they sold for around $80 and were just the characters. As I have about 10 pieces, I asked if they had anything else and was told no. I just they reserve those pieces for the Disney ships since they know there are Disney fans on those ships.

I also won one of their pieces of art and waiting for it's arrival.

I hope you enjoy your new acquistion just as much as I enjoy ours.
 
Well, this is what the certificate of authenticity says: “Registration No. XXXXXX.0000; Walk Disney Studios; Winnie the Pooh: Pooh and Tigger bound; 1980; 10 ½” X 12 ½”; Hand painted production cel with color background and pencil drawing with facsimile signature of Walt Disney. A unique work.” I blanked out the reg # as I don't know if that should be a secret or not???:rolleyes1 I did email John so I'll see what he says too. Did you see his new Disney offerings? Thank you, Cindy
 
Yes I did see the latest offerings, but we no longer collect production cels. We still have a lot of them in a closet because we have no wall space left to hang them.

Please let us know what Jon says about the cell.
 
I had long talks with the two people who seemed to be running the Art Auctions on the Magic this week.

Most of the Disney items they have there I would not touch with a ten foot pole.

If I were into Pooh those are legitimate items. They have original production cels framed with the actual drawings. As a prior poster said, these are actual one-of-a-kind production cels.

With the exception of Don "Ducky" Williams, I am not familiar with the names of any of the artists who have done their Disney artwork. They do have some original artwork, but mostly they have reproductions.

They did have some small Sorcerer Mickeys which appeared to be cels. However, I was told that rather than the lines being either hand-drawn or xerographic, the lines were done from a lithograph and the coloring was "water colors". I asked specifically about the paint used; if it was gouache (which traditionally has been used for animation production cels) and was told it was water colors.

They appear to not be liars, but in my opinion they are intellectually dishonest. It appears that they have obtained lithograph stones and etchings plates of artists who are no longer alive, and have made additional, unnumbered copies of these works and are truthfully stating the works are by the specified artists, but you do not get the statement that the copies were done by the artist and obviously there is no signature.

And then they charge the 15% "buyer's premium". In a "normal" auction, where the auctioneer is performing a service for a client, the buyer's preimum and/or seller's premium is how the auctioneer gets paid. In the case of this company, they own the artworks which they are then auctioning, so they are making their profit on the sale of the artwork and then adding onto that profit.
 
Well, I see the error of our ways and won't buy on ship again! I sent information on the Pooh and Tigger cel to Jon and he feels it's an original cel from a short story in the early 80's. So, it's original but we did over pay by several times...lesson learned! We also bought and received three cels from Jon's current sale. He was wonderful to work with and we love the cels! :woohoo: Cindy
 
Yeah! John is a good guy to work with and he knows a lot about animation art!

I have purchased several pieces from him over the years. As I mentioned previously... twenty one years ago, I told him I was looking for a portrait cel of Bruno, the faithful dog in Cinderella. Last year, he emailed me and said he had found the cell I had requested. I'd say that's pretty good service even though it took 2 decades for the piece to surface.

Although you may have overpaid for the Pooh cell on the Wonder, I'm sure it must have been very special or you wouldn't have bid on it, so enjoy having it. Any time you get a great cell in an auction, it will always be special in your collection. Now you know a lot more about it too.

You have now found a new, reliable and reputable animation dealer and got three new cels from him too. I'd say you are now a collector! So just a word of warning... if you find more cells you like in future auctions, this won't be the last time you overpay!

After all is said and done, I say there is a somewhat happy ending here. But please tell us about the new cells you just purchased...
 
We bought a Pluto in a sailor hat (my husband is retired after 20 years and I couldn't resist); Fauna the fairy and two Heffalumps dancing from Blustery Day. They are pretty cool. It's a pleasure to have these on the walls! :goodvibes Cindy
 
I have many pieces of animation art and have bought all directly from Disney.
This doesn't mean I don't attend or buy at auctions. Being at an auction one does tend to get caught up in the excitement and the chase, whether at sea, at the Pin celebration, or on-line.
If you like it and you felt it was worth it, then enjoy it. Don't start second guessing. You may have never found another one like it.
 
If you like it and you felt it was worth it, then enjoy it. Don't start second guessing. You may have never found another one like it.

That's like advocating blissful ignorance. People should not be knowingly ripped off and Disney should not allow this on their property.

I caution people to read the articles, cases and accounts (all very recent) on the Fine Art Registry website about Park West's shady tactics.
 

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