Cloning of rides at Disney Theme Parks??

[Bob O]

What do you think of disney cloning rides at their theme parks??? Another Voice has a post about DCA and the addition of TOT to the park. I dont like the way disney is going with all the cloning of rides. I think its obviuosly being done to save money and with the reductions to imagineering maybe they dont have the creative team anymore in place to create rides for new parks. I think DL and WDW should be separate entities with separate attractions,escpecially E Ticket rides. Im going to DL later this year because i have never been their but im doubtful i would go in the future if they are going to make the park a best of wdw type park. I like the idea that the Indiana Jones ride is only there and gives you something to look forward too, but with all the copy cats between the parks like muppets/bug's life star tours etc i think that is a negative.
What are your thoughts of the cloning of the theme park experience??? Are they becoming more like Six Flags where almost every park has a boom-er-rang type coaster as a example.

 

[Peter Pirate]

As usual, I disagree. The cloning doesn't bug me at all. I may never get to DL - Been to CA twice but didn't make it to DL. I doubt I'll ever get to TDL or TDS and, again, if I do make it to Japan I don't believe a crowded theme park will be on my 'must do' list. So I'm all for spreading the wealth. If Disney were to give us (WDW) Indy or Saorin' it would in no way diminish my enjoyment of the ride (knowing it was a clone).

I will agree that I'd like to see Disney use more imagination (as in a great dark ride), but they have given us Soarin' recently & will be giving us Space shortly, so they're still imagineering...

 

[All Aboard]

Nope, doesn't bother me either. If Disney cloned Indy & Journey to the Center of the Earth and put them in Central Florida I'd be thrilled to no end.

In fact, if they dragged the cursor completely over Tokyo DisneySeas, clicked on "copy" then moved the cursor over to a nice choice spot within WDW and clicked "paste"... I'd jump for joy.

 

[Eeyore2U]

From all I here I hope the clone Soarin.

If it works there, why wouldn't it work here??

 

[raidermatt]

BobO- Good idea bringing the topic to this board. It'll be interesting to get the opinion of others who still love a lot about Disney, but are not happy with current management.

My 2 cents. I'm fine with it, and here's why:

1- MK is essentially a clone of DL, and I doubt anyone would want every ride that was at DL first pulled out of MK. I know there are some differences, but for the most part, the park is a clone, and a wonderful one at that. Sure it was cheaper than coming up with a whole new park, but it doesn't make it the wrong thing to do.

2- Many Disney visitors can't get to both WDW and DLResort on a regular basis, and sometimes not at all. Never mind Japan or Paris. It would be a shame if attractions like ToT, the three Mountains, Peter Pan, Dumbo, Star Tours, Pirates, Small World, the Railroad, Main Street, Soarin, etc, can never be enjoyed by hardcore Disney fans who just can't get to the other coast. Or even occasional visitors who may only visit once in a great while.


That said, I don't want to see just any old ride copied. And for rides with somewhat marginal appeal, like CBJ, I like having it in at least one instead of none. But if its a hit, send it out west, or back east, as the case maybe.

Another way to clone without it looking like a clone is to re-theme the ride. Dinosaur is a very similar ride to Indiana Jones. I think the main difference is in the themeing and effects. I like this concept a lot, as long as there is sufficient effort put into the different aspects. In the case of Dino and Indy, I absolutely think it works.

 

[Another Voice]

The decision to make the “clone” Magic Kingdom for WDW was in the middle of the last century when the world was very different. In the mid and late sixities when the place was designed, the idea of a family hoping on a jet and flying out for quick trip was limited to only the extremely wealthy. It was never expected that people who went to WDW would ever make it to Disneyland, nor the other way around.

The theory held up through later decades because WDW became a destination, while Disneyland became more a regional park. In other words, people made a special trip to Florida, but very few made a special trip just to see Anaheim.

Times have changed. Along with the rest the nation, a lot of Californians have seen WDW. One of the problems with DCA is that a lot of people have already seen ‘Bugs’ and ‘Muppets’ and ‘Animation’, and no one wants to plop down $43 to see repeats. And in the other side, The Company is trying to make Disneyland a resort and to appeal to vacationers from all over the country. But people who are going to travel to see a Disney theme park likely have already been to WDW. How can Disneyland compete if it offers nothing but a subset of what WDW offers?

Of course, few people on this board care about Disneyland so there’s probably nothing wrong with cloning the rides. It’s simple a matter of convenience. But every time they crank up the old Xerox machine, Disney losses another chance to be creative and to impress. And instead of having two world class resorts in the United States, we get one.

 

[Amor4Pooh]

I must agree with AV. DCA is a sad piecing together of too many other elements, carny and WDW alike. About the only unique attractions it has can be counted on one hand. I enjoy having AP's to both WDW and DLR, even though (being born and raised a So Cal girl) I am much more the fan of Disneyland. I also must say that although the 100 years celebration attempt at WDW (parades and merchandise, with some historical artifacts borrowed from DL (and other locations) in an exhibit) seems very nice, I am very dissappointed with Disney for not doing anything really special (or unique) at Disneyland-for it being the Original, and the only park Walt ever truly "lived" in. (Besides releasing some "Commemorative Merchandise") And I fully intend to write a letter to Mr. Pressler and Ms. Harris to tell them so.
I just think that the cloning is a symptom of the bigger problems within Disney, and has only become more noticeable in the last decade. Look at Disney Studios Paris. Sounds great, but I wouldn't make the extra trip accross the Atlantic just to see another Disney-MGM clone with many of the same attractions in the other parks. I am only planning the trip because I haven't been to either Paris park, and now it sounds like there will a bit more to do for my time there. I'm sure many others feel the same. And don't even get me started on the pin campaign they've thought up, and the designs they are cloning around the world. About the only way those lovely suits down in corporate ever really know what we think is when we write them a real letter telling them so. Or if we see one of them (like "good old Mikey" at DL, or "everyone's friendly buddy Paul" at WDW) and ask them why things are the way they are.
I recently attended an event at DL where Marty Sklar spoke and we were able to ask him a few questions. It was quite clear he was only the spokesperson, not the person in power to make the choices, even though he has a wonderful job title. He also mentioned the "one scene" which they wanted to add to the major attractions for DL's 50th. Sounded great, but seeing is believing. I would love to see these things happen at DL, so I want my voice to be heard, and every letter counts. If we at least let them know what we expect, maybe they'll at least think about it. No matter what, please write your letters, they can make a difference.

 

[Bob O]

Of course i agree with Another Voice, just wish i was a wordsmith like he is.
I have no problem with disney using the same ride mechanism more than once but each ride should be its own creation and not just a copy.
Im going to disneyland because i have never been their before but if all they are going to do is import clones from wdw i wont go again.
The rides from Japan arent as bad because not as many americans go their but alot of americans go to Europe and have a chance to see Disneyland Paris but again if its a clone of wdw i wouldnt go their when i do visit Europe.
The ride mechanism from Soarin would be fine IMHO at wdw but the same film, no!!!! How does a CA fit in any theme at wdw???
This just shows the general cheapness of eisner's disney rather than wanting to push forward with new ideas,push forward with new ride technonlgy which was a hallmark of disney pre-eisner.(of course he will do so with other people's money).
When Epcot was built it was totally new and not a clone as is TDS from what ive read, but that wont be done in wdw/dl when disney has to spend their own money.

 

[JeffH]

Yeah, right, like I want to have to travel to California, France, Tokyo, Hong Kong to get the whole Disney experience. No, I want everything these other parks develop, duplicated at Walt Disney World so I get to enjoy it too.

 

[All Aboard]

When Epcot was built it was totally new and not a clone as is TDS from what ive read,

Bob O, I'm dying to know. From what was TDS cloned?????

JeffH, ditto.

 

[d-r]

Originally posted by gcurling
Nope, doesn't bother me either. If Disney cloned Indy & Journey to the Center of the Earth and put them in Central Florida I'd be thrilled to no end.

well, they did a different kind of cloning - they're called "dinosaur" and "test track." So, in a way, we already have them at wdw, just with different dressings. To be honest, I think I'd rather see this kind of "cloning" so that when we go to CA. or make it to Tokyo or Paris it will be a little different (like Phantom Manor to the Haunted Mansion, or the Tokyo Pooh ride, for off the top of the head examples).

I agree with AV about dca, it seemed like a little mgm studios here, a little epcot there, a little animal kingdom here, a little cheap carnival there. I think that tot will help dca a lot, I think that rock n roller coaster would fit well there, too, but I don't think they will (the logic being "we already have a coaster that shoots to a start from a stand still, and a coaster that plays music")

DR

BTW, TDS has clones of test track (journey to center of earth), indiana jones, and the mermaid area looks like well-themed off-the-shelf attractions (kiddie coasters, spinners, tea cups, jumpin jellyfish).

 

[Another Voice]

At DisneySea, their ‘Indiana Jones and the Temple of the Crystal Skull’ is a clone of Disneyland’s ‘Indiana Jones and the Temple of the Forbidden Eye’. The extitors are decorated to different locations (TDS is set in Central America and D/L is set in India), and a few of the major show effects in the ride are different, but the rides are essentially clones.

I don’t really consider using the same ride system – but putting on a completely different show – to be cloning.

And Rock'n Rollercoaster was planned as the first addition to DCA when the place opened last year. It was cut within a month of the park's opening because of the disasterous attendance. It was decided that a 'Tower' clone produced at the same time the attraction was also being built for Tokyo and Paris would be cheaper.

 

[fklhou]

Are there any plans to clone Indiana Jones at WDW? I for one would love to see this attraction cloned at WDW.

 

[marty3d]

Add my vote to copying and pasting DisneySea to WDW.

I have no issue with cloning attractions from one park to another (with some minor changes thrown in so that it can still be a "new" experience if you do visit multiple parks) as long as it isn't within the same resort (Dumbo, Aladdin and Triceratops Spin at WDW come to mind - though my 2 1/2 year ols son loved all three!).

 

[Another Voice]

On the matter of ‘Indiana Jones and The Temple of Whatever’ coming to WDW… It was my memory that the original license deal between Disney and Lucas didn’t allow for any cloning of Indiana Jones rides between any of the Disney parks. George wanted a different experience at each location – the ride at Disneyland, the show at WDW and the traditional thrill ride at Euro Disney.

I don’t know if this deal was changed for DisneySea, or if there’s a separate agreement between the Oriental Land Company and Lucas (since Disney has no ownership or rights to the Tokyo parks), or if changing the ‘Forbidden Eye’ to the ‘Crystal Skull’ is just enough to make the lawyers feel all warm and fuzzy in their reptilian hearts. In any case, the relations between Disney and Lucasfilm are so bad right now I wouldn’t be too optimistic about any new rides at any Disney park.

 

[HBK]

I really feel copying is ok if done in moderation...although I'm not sure why they can't use the same ride vehicles and change the story (Indy & CTX for example).

Do I want to ride Soarin? Yes. Do I want it in WDW? Selfishly yes....but I don't think in the long run it's good for either property to mirror each other.

If all of the "good" attractions from WDW are imported to CA why would any west coasters head out to Orlando? You regionalize your company in a manner similar to six flags. I wasn't aware Disney was in that business.

 

[larworth]

I think cloning is a perfectly acceptable practice. If just makes sense for Disney to leverage it’s most popular attractions by making sure they are exposed to the maximum amount of people around the world.

Now, getting the most out of their intellectual property surely doesn’t mean exact carbon copies. Some change in story/theme seems like a good practice. For a small cost it adds an element of novelty for resort hoppers, creates debate (whose is better) which is a good thing, and allows tailoring for local demographics.

You would also like to see them have a practive of making the next incarnation a better experience. The beauty of having actual operating experience is you see what works best. They should take full advantage of their learning curve opportunities.

When a clone is a great fit for an individual park need than invest away. As long as satisfying customers is utmost it should not be a problem. However, the danger comes when what is really in the best interest of the customer starts to take a back seat to the fact that they can stick in a clone for less upfront money and partially meet the need.

Recent trends regarding WDI’s charter all seem headed in the wrong direction (smaller size, more transient staff, more off-the-shelf rides, more value engineering). Should we add an over-reliance on clones to the list?

I know long-term I'd much rather have a portfolio of attractions in my quiver, instead of just a few that now have to be shoehorned into every park.

 

[Bob O]

gcurling, my mistake!!!! I didnt properly proofread my comment about TDS.
Why doesnt disney do something cutting edge like Unviersal did with Spiderman rather than their version of the attack of the clones???

 

[All Aboard]

Bob O, I would consider Indy & Journey to the Center of the Earth to be "cutting edge".

Spidey's budget was $200m. In fact, IOA's total budget was enormous. And it shows. But, I think the jury is still out on whether that level of capital investment will pay off in the long run. I hope it does. That would encourage further cutting edge development, whether it be from Universal, Disney or whoever.

 

[HBK]

Spidey's budget was $200m. In fact, IOA's total budget was enormous. And it shows. But, I think the jury is still out on whether that level of capital investment will pay off in the long run.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Mission Space a $300+ Million budgeted ride? And further, the budget for TDS was "bloated" in Anahiem's eyes, but it's been a wild success according to the reports I've read....heck at least they'll celebrate it's 1 year anniversary.

To make money, you need to spend money. DCA is the proof.

And scoop...

I think Disney's technological response will be Mission:Space...its all speculation now...but I believe M:S may well raise the bar come late next year...

Part of the appeal of Spidey is just about anyone can ride. It's tame enough for the youngsters, but cool enough for the adults.

Mission Space is going to spin you until you get sick. It's more of a niche ride, while spidey covers a more broad audience.