Considering CFW, first time buyer

[Cfabar1]

Buying a fixed week doesn’t necessarily cost more points to use the contract. Yes, you need to buy 10% more points for the week you want. It’s only when you KEEP that week (automatically reserved at 12 months) that it costs you the extra points. If you cancel that booking and use the points at 11 months or less, the points all get used as normal.

This is what I think a lot of people forget with fixed week. You can easily cancel it and get the 10% more points...

 

[Hubalorian]

This is what I think a lot of people forget with fixed week. You can easily cancel it and get the 10% more points...

Could I just cancel my favorite week then rebook it for 10% less points?

 

[tidefan]

Please break down your math on why you thinks it’s “objectively nuts”. I’m not agreeing or disagreeing…just looking for more of a detailed answer.

If you buy at least 150 direct you are possibly getting the direct points at 200pp. So over 50 years that’s $4 amortized. Add on $12.15pp and that gets you to $16.15 pp. If the avg night is 25 a night then you are at $404 per night vs cash rate at $616 including the TOT. That’s a 34% discount. Get a guaranteed week to protect yourself on the resale market.

Yes, dues go up…. but inflation goes up too and so will cash rates.

If a family really loves going to the Cabins and wants to lock that in for themselves and future generations with some flexibility to use the points outside WDW if they want…. I wouldn’t fault them for it just like I wouldn’t want anyone faulting my family for buying into VGC and paying a small fortune to do so.

So much for that “break even in 7 years” spiel…

 

[intamin]

Could I just cancel my favorite week then rebook it for 10% less points?

Yep! That's exactly why I bought my second RIV contract as a favorite week. There's no penalty for owning it. Just the upside of knowing you're guaranteed that week if you would like.

The only downside is you might end up buying more points than you had originally intended. For example, I originally wanted a second 150 pt RIV contract, ended up buying a 135 (fixed week) and a 50 point contract to do the minimum to be above the 150 pt threshold.

I now have enough points to be able to book the week with my non fixed week points at 11 months, but if for whatever reason I decide I really want to go still and wasn't able to get it with my non-FW points, I have my fixed week booked in a standard studio in the middle of December for 10% more. Also if it's still available, like you said you can cancel the fixed week and re-book at the regular rate.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Even at $550 a night it doesn’t make sense to purchase this.

A 32-50% discount over that doesn't make sense? That's the general calculations compared to $550/night for all weeks except Thanksgiving and Christmas. It falls in the range of what DVC used to advertise as a main reason to purchase DVC Plus, barring some change to historical experience you still have something to sell if you decided to which would increase that savings a bit more.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Please break down your math on why you thinks it’s “objectively nuts”. I’m not agreeing or disagreeing…just looking for more of a detailed answer.

If you buy at least 150 direct you are possibly getting the direct points at 200pp. So over 50 years that’s $4 amortized. Add on $12.15pp and that gets you to $16.15 pp. If the avg night is 25 a night then you are at $404 per night vs cash rate at $616 including the TOT. That’s a 34% discount. Get a guaranteed week to protect yourself on the resale market.

Yes, dues go up…. but inflation goes up too and so will cash rates.

If a family really loves going to the Cabins and wants to lock that in for themselves and future generations with some flexibility to use the points outside WDW if they want…. I wouldn’t fault them for it just like I wouldn’t want anyone faulting my family for buying into VGC and paying a small fortune to do so.

Looking at the point chart, if you throw out Christmas week and the couple of days around Thanksgiving (only 11 nights total), it appears to be more like 16 pts per night average for a week in the lowest season and slightly below 23 pts avg for a week in the highest.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Looking at the point chart, if you throw out Christmas week and the couple of days around Thanksgiving (only 11 nights total), it appears to be more like 16 pts per night average for a week in the lowest season and slightly below 23 pts avg for a week in the highest.

So that brings it down to $258 to $372 per night (add you own estimate for opportunity cost)…

 

[sethschroeder]

In the nicer resorts can't say I ever hear anyone next door really in a DVC room.

Enjoy if you buy but your kids being a little louder wouldn't be a thing for me to decide on because that's only maybe 3 of 50 years?

 

[DisneyFamAdventure]

I am not following. If you want to stay somewhere else, how would you book that other stay? What would you do with your points? I have not rented points in years, but 16.65 per point to stay at most resorts seems like a pretty good deal.

We have not rented DVC in the past we simply have paid cash. I am a Southern Californian girl that was used to traveling to Disneyland all throughout my childhood, now that we reside in Texas we have been traveling more to Florida and have fallen in love with Fort Wilderness. Our second favorite resort is Wilderness Lodge. But you are right, $16.65 per point to stay at most of the resorts is a lot less than renting DVC points to stay.

Seeing everyone's responses is helping us make the decision and we are definitely going to buy at CFW.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I’ve read that some people have purchased a 25 point resale contract and as long as they are past ROFR (i.e have not even fully closed on the contract yet) DVC has let them buy into the new resorts at the member pre-sale incentive levels….

You need to have a membership number in the system. When we decided to buy Aulani, we purchased resale first, but because it was a different UY to our WDW points, it was obviously a new membership. When we asked about member pricing to add-on a few more points, we were told by our guide (who’s sold us several contracts in the past and is one of the more senior guides), that we’d have to wait for the new membership number to appear, then he could sell us the direct points. Even though we were already members, because the UY meant a new membership number, nothing else mattered and we needed the resale membership to show up. Points didn’t need to be loaded, but the membership had to be set up.

 

[achinforsomebacon]

We haven't considered buying a guaranteed week. We will need to look over the numbers to see what makes sense.

Others have pointed out some details of the favorite weeks or whatever they're called now but I think the key aspects that people don't understand is that you don't pay more per point for the points and you don't have to use the week at the 10% higher rate. You pay the same price per point, you just might end up getting more points than originally planned. You can also cancel the week and rebook at the normal rate if it's still available at 11 months. Or cancel and use the points however you want.

If the points worked out, I would only buy a favorite week if going direct. The only real downsides are buying more points (is that really a downside?) and potentially having to cancel the fixed week reservation that's automatically made if you don't want to use it.

 

[DanCali]

So we are considering buying CFW as first time buyers into DVC. I know, unpopular opinion right now considering the new "Trust" and the high maintenance dues of $12.15. The point charts are great but we still do not know what the price per point will be, I am guessing $225 ppp.

Reasons:
We love visiting Fort Wilderness, we enjoy "looping" in our golf cart, visiting the Tri-Circle D Ranch to say hello to the horses, seeing nature, being able to spread out, movie nights under the stars, taking a boat ride to MK, the list is endless with all of the activities offered at that resort that we literally take days off between visiting the parks to simply just enjoy the Fort.

In regards to the cabins, we enjoy the fact that our boys can just be kids, play and talk as loud as they want inside our cabin without worrying about bothering the next door neighbors because we don't share walls. We can step out in our porch and just enjoy our meals there under the trees. We have picky eaters so we tend to cook a few meals in our cabin. We don't mind not having a washer and dryer since we have used the commons area to do a load or two during our stay which is right next to the pool, so we can just enjoy some time at the pool whenever we do our laundry. Anyhow, my husband travels a lot for work and often stays in many hotels/resorts and he says that by far he feels the most comfortable and at peace when he stays in the Cabins in Fort Wilderness. We enjoy visiting the parks but the big crowds do drain us so we like taking a day off to just relax at the Fort between park visits. Our typical stay is usually Saturday through Thursday, so about 5 night stay.

I ran the comparisons using DVC Resale Market numbers for current Direct vs resale price per point plus dues (numbers obtained are as of Jan. 19th, 2024 they will change once the price increase for Direct sales happens 01/29/2024), total years remaining on the deed (or call it trust for CFW), for a stay in Oct. 12 to the 17th, 2024 staying at a 1 bedroom accross all the other DVC resorts as a hypothetical booking. Granted for the Poly there are only studios and not 1 bedrooms. Also, I tried using the standard 1 bedroom points, where applicable, for my comparison.

The end result for a 5 night stay in mid Oct of 2024, buying DIRECT is as follows:

Buy Direc/Resale?	Resort	Price Per Point	Years Remaining in Deed	Cost per point	2024 Dues	Cost pp +dues	Points needed for a 5 night stay	Cost per 5 night stay
Direct	Animal Kingdom	$210	33	$6.36	$9.08	$15.44	148	$2,285.66
Direct	Aulani	$225	38	$5.92	$9.76	$15.68	182	$2,853.95
Direct	Bay Lake Tower	$275	36	$7.64	$7.59	$15.23	173	$2,634.60
Direct	Beach Club	$275	18	$15.28	$8.63	$23.91	183	$4,375.12
Direct	Boardwalk	$240	18	$13.33	$8.67	$22.00	145	$3,190.48
Direct	Boulder Ridge	$215	18	$11.94	$8.68	$20.62	182	$3,753.65
Direct	Cabins at Fort Wilderness	$225	50	$4.50	$12.15	$16.65	113	$1,881.45
Direct	Copper Creek	$250	44	$5.68	$8.09	$13.77	182	$2,506.47
Direct	Disneyland Hotel	$230	50	$4.60	$9.53	$14.13	206	$2,910.78
Direct	Grand Californian	$310	36	$8.61	$8.55	$17.16	204	$3,500.87
Direct	Grand Floridian	$230	40	$5.75	$7.57	$13.32	223	$2,970.36
Direct	Hilton Head	$165	18	$9.17	$11.31	$20.48	152	$3,112.45
Direct	Old Key West	$205	18	$11.39	$9.87	$21.26	146	$3,103.80
Direct	Old Key West – Ext	$205	33	$6.21	$9.87	$16.08	146	$2,347.99
Direct	Polynesian (studio)	$250	42	$5.95	$8.23	$14.18	130	$1,843.71
Direct	Riviera Resort	$225	46	$4.89	$8.85	$13.74	206	$2,830.71
Direct	Saratoga Springs	$205	30	$6.83	$8.14	$14.97	154	$2,305.89
Direct	Vero Beach	$150	18	$8.33	$13.86	$22.19	113	$2,507.85

Buying Resale (but only option buying direct for the Cabins at Fort Wilderness)

Buy Direc/Resale?	Resort	Price Per Point	Years Remaining in Deed	Cost per point	2024 Dues	Cost pp +dues	Point needed for a 5 night stay	Cost per 5 night stay
Resale	Animal Kingdom	$116	33	$3.52	$9.08	$12.60	148	$1,864.08
Resale	Aulani	$106	38	$2.79	$9.76	$12.55	182	$2,284.00
resale	Bay Lake Tower	$132	36	$3.67	$7.59	$11.26	173	$1,947.40
resale	Beach Club	$136	18	$7.56	$8.63	$16.19	183	$2,961.96
resale	Boardwalk	$123	18	$6.83	$8.67	$15.50	145	$2,247.98
resale	Boulder Ridge	$111	18	$6.17	$8.68	$14.85	182	$2,702.09
Direct	Cabins at Fort Wilderness	$225	50	$4.50	$12.15	$16.65	113	$1,881.45
resale	Copper Creek	$146	44	$3.32	$8.09	$11.41	182	$2,076.29
resale	Disneyland Hotel	$180	50	$3.60	$9.53	$13.13	206	$2,704.78
resale	Grand Californian	$281	36	$7.81	$8.55	$16.36	204	$3,336.53
resale	Grand Floridian	$163	40	$4.08	$7.57	$11.65	223	$2,596.84
resale	Hilton Head	$66	18	$3.67	$11.31	$14.98	152	$2,276.45
resale	Old Key West	$89	18	$4.94	$9.87	$14.81	146	$2,162.91
resale	Old Key West – Ext	$115	33	$3.48	$9.87	$13.35	146	$1,949.81
resale	Polynesian (studio)	$155	42	$3.69	$8.23	$11.92	130	$1,549.66
resale	Riviera Resort	$117	46	$2.54	$8.85	$11.39	206	$2,347.06
resale	Saratoga Springs	$106	30	$3.53	$8.14	$11.67	154	$1,797.69
resale	Vero Beach	$58	18	$3.22	$13.86	$17.08	113	$1,930.29

The catch is if we buy Direct at CFW, it will appear that our points, with the high dues, will only be beneficial to use ONLY for bookings at the CFW (granted we would have the 11 month booking advantage and it will be save us $$ in comparison to the other DVC properties but only buying direct. The exception would be buying resale at the other properties like AK and SS would be less and Poly studio but we do not wish to stay in a studio). This means that it will be unwise to book at any of the other resorts using CFW points for a room that is at least a 1 bedroom since the cost per point plus yearly dues per point will be way too much since all other DVC resorts will cost more points per night. In sum, the low point charts for CFW are great, the dues are too high, and even if we buy DIRECT WITHOUT any restrictions it will be unwise to use the CFW points at any other DVC resort other that the CFW home resort. I believe we are going to have to just wait for the first resale of a CFW contract, even with all the restrictions, since it appears that even if you buy CFW DIRECT it will cost too much to use CFW points at any other DVC property. Now, if the price per point is less than $180 after incentives then we might consider buying direct but I doubt it.

This is a very nice analysis. The main issue I see with it is that is it a snapshot today. Going forward, after you own it, the things that will matter more are the annual dues and resale values, in case you decide to sell it. And on both of those front, CFW may not look so good.

As the years pass, your analysis of cost pp will start to flip. Suppose that in 10 years all dues go up by 50% (which is about 4% per year annualized). At that point CFW will be at $18.22 dues ($22.72 cost pp with upfront buy) and BLT dues will be at $11.38 ($15.05 cost pp with resale upfront buy and $19.02 cost pp with direct upfront buy). So you can see that the resorts that start with lower dues become more cost effective over time if all dues increase at the same rate. So the tables in your original post will look a lot different in 10 years and any economic advantage you see for CFW today will likely erode. This is also why I strongly favor the Aulani subsidized contracts, but that's a topic for separate threads

Moreover, if you look at resale prices, they tend to be at least somewhat inversely related to annual dues. Aulani and AKV have higher dues but cost less on the resale market than BLT and VGF (obvious location is a factor as well). But, even ignoring resale restrictions, I can't see CFW having great resale value down the road with dues like VB and HHI and the difference relative to other resorts likely just increasing over time.

 

[DanCali]

You need to have a membership number in the system. When we decided to buy Aulani, we purchased resale first, but because it was a different UY to our WDW points, it was obviously a new membership. When we asked about member pricing to add-on a few more points, we were told by our guide (who’s sold us several contracts in the past and is one of the more senior guides), that we’d have to wait for the new membership number to appear, then he could sell us the direct points. Even though we were already members, because the UY meant a new membership number, nothing else mattered and we needed the resale membership to show up. Points didn’t need to be loaded, but the membership had to be set up.

That was our experience too, but we've also learned that when a sale is on the line, and as long as the deed has been recorded and info sent to DVC, the new membership can be created in a matter of hours with some pixie dust and the guide calling the right people to make it happen.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

Yep! That's exactly why I bought my second RIV contract as a favorite week. There's no penalty for owning it. Just the upside of knowing you're guaranteed that week if you would like.

The only downside is you might end up buying more points than you had originally intended. For example, I originally wanted a second 150 pt RIV contract, ended up buying a 135 (fixed week) and a 50 point contract to do the minimum to be above the 150 pt threshold.

I now have enough points to be able to book the week with my non fixed week points at 11 months, but if for whatever reason I decide I really want to go still and wasn't able to get it with my non-FW points, I have my fixed week booked in a standard studio in the middle of December for 10% more. Also if it's still available, like you said you can cancel the fixed week and re-book at the regular rate.

I'm not going to lie I definitely scoffed at the idea of fixed weeks when reading those threads on these boards, thinking this is DVC not a traditional timeshare why would I ever buy a fixed week, but when it's put in this context I almost will definitely be looking to go the FW route if purchasing a direct contract in the future. It actually does seem like a great idea. Being able to convert it into the full allotment of points and even being able to rebook the week at a cheaper point cost...makes a lot of sense. Plus the resale value if the week chosen is in high demand.

 

[DonMacGregor]

That was our experience too, but we've also learned that when a sale is on the line, and as long as the deed has been recorded and info sent to DVC, the new membership can be created in a matter of hours with some pixie dust and the guide calling the right people to make it happen.

I could see that happening, but @AstroBlasters said “as they are past ROFR (i.e have not even fully closed on the contract yet)”, and in that scenario, you’d be out of luck.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I could see that happening, but @AstroBlasters said “as they are past ROFR (i.e have not even fully closed on the contract yet)”, and in that scenario, you’d be out of luck.

I am just stating what I have read from previous posters…. that they were able to get member pricing before they officially had a member number, but after they had passed ROFR…. perhaps those posters did not include all of the information… such as that they had closed on the contract and their resale got pushed to the top of the line to get the direct contract sold….

I bought my direct contract after I had a member number and so therefore have no first hand experience.

 

[AwfulWaffle]

Being able to convert it into the full allotment of points and even being able to rebook the week at a cheaper point cost...makes a lot of sense

Yea and no. If you convert your fixed week into points to “save some points” then you loose the advantage of fixed week, booking at the 12 month window. And your allotment of points is ready for use at the 11 month window with everyone else so good luck!
I am only converting my fixed week if I know I won’t be there that week in that year because I’ll gladly pay the 10% point markup to not have to deal with walkers during peak season.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

Yea and no. If you convert your fixed week into points to “save some points” then you loose the advantage of fixed week, booking at the 12 month window. And your allotment of points is ready for use at the 11 month window with everyone else so good luck!
I am only converting my fixed week if I know I won’t be there that week in that year because I’ll gladly pay the 10% point markup to not have to deal with walkers during peak season.

Is there a consensus "best week at best resort"? The ultimate fixed week for the MOST in demand time and resort? WL at Christmas? GF at Christmas? Epcot resorts for food and wine?

 

[Cybertruck]

Do you need a direct benefits, another consideration. I own at BLT (resale) and VGF (direct on recent incentives), but those are not my favorite locations, though I don't mind staying at either. I've found I've been able to reserve my home resorts at 11 mths and often switch to more desirable one afterward. It might be a gamble, but getting a value priced lower point resale contract with a long horizon and lower dues, might work. BLT has pretty low resale right now. Still a risk and not really a popular opinion on these boards, but a possible consideration.

Agree. We purchased right when BLT started on the resale market. It was a serious consideration but could not stretch our funds for the 2-week stay we wanted with the family. It is hard to believe it is over 11 years now. Over the years our priorities have changed so have the resorts we prioritized that vacation year. We have stayed at all the Disney World DVC resorts and do not regret our Saratoga resale purchase. We only attended Moonlight Magic event 4 times now. It is a nice perk but not something we miss. The estimated $12.15 dues are a showstopper for us. We stayed at Cooper Creek Christmas week with our SAP. While new trust gives us some pause thinking how flexible our SAP will be in the future only time will tell how the DVD 2.0 will work for all members.

The only thing we would have done different was purchased sooner. We are looking to add more points at Poly2.

 

[intamin]

Is there a consensus "best week at best resort"? The ultimate fixed week for the MOST in demand time and resort? WL at Christmas? GF at Christmas? Epcot resorts for food and wine?

I just went with what was popular but also I took into account when my family would most likely go. Weeks 48 and 49 are early December and obviously are some of the most in demand times. I bought a week 50 fixed week because we figured we were most likely to go the week leading up to Christmas and it's still an in-demand time. The problem I had with week 48 and 49 is it would interfere with our kids being in school or if our kids are in college I know finals can go into that first week of December. I'd imagine a VGF/CCV fixed week 48-50 would sell like hotcakes on the resale market.

Other people go based off of other things like runDisney events and etc.