Covid And The Rest of Us

[NFLDERS]

It would’ve been helpful to see the numbers on the right side of the graphs here. Can you repost them?

I was having difficulty posting anything from that site and gave up. If you can open it, there are lots of graphs. Is your following post showing the graphs you were referring to?

 

[Weedy]

 

[lisaviolet]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...-crossroads-COVID-19-case-numbers-rising.html

Yes we are rising in numbers, so much so that our PM spoke to the nation at some point today. I didn't see it. I was too busy enjoying eighty degree weather. (Annette, please tell me you're not home. It is 9:30 pm and still in the seventies here. EDIT: Just checked Calgary and it is beautiful there tomorrow too.)

It only makes sense for us to be rising. Besides this warm week here (and here is not a whole country!), temperatures have been falling = more inside activity. More and more people are back to work, inside establishments opened etc. It just makes sense. I honestly don't feel that overall people are being a lot more lax, we are simply open to more contact and indoor activities. And because of our climate over time it will just get worse, unfortunately. I know we started out in March but spring was right around the corner in many parts. And people really took themselves outside to appreciate both the beauty and the safety.

It is natural to gravitate indoors as fall sets in, often with loved ones. And that is welcoming the virus. Sigh. Hopefully science brings us closer with insight on helping the sick, more rapid testing and creating a productive vaccine.

Canada, the short answer is a resounding NO. Since pretty early on our political leaders of every stripe and at every level have been very uniform in their support for the information and recommendations provided by our federal and provincial Chief Medical Officers. Public health decisions have been directed by medical professionals, not bureaucrats. Individuals who may be anti-maskers or even the more severe cases of "covidiot" cannot claim any official support for their position, whatever their motivations might be.

I appreciate your words Annette. It is bang on, well written and it comforted me to know that other areas of the country see it that way.

 

[ronandannette]

Yes we are rising in numbers, so much so that our PM spoke to the nation at some point today. I didn't see it. I was too busy enjoying eighty degree weather. (Annette, please tell me you're not home. It is 9:30 pm and still in the seventies here. EDIT: Just checked Calgary and it is beautiful there tomorrow too.)

I appreciate your words Annette. It is bang on, well written and it comforted me to know that other areas of the country see it that way.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/loca...ress-the-nation-on-covid-19-fight-second-waveToday's Speech from the Throne, which is a requirement to re-open Parliament (after the prorogation) addressed many Covid-related financial issues. Trudeau's follow-up address talked more about intangibles. Long-story-short, all the proposed provisions make it obvious that the government does not anticipate an end to the State of Medical Emergency for an indefinite period of time. Interestingly, although the leaders of all other parties were vocal in their criticism of the finances, none of them disagree with the premise of dealing with the virus in whatever measure possible. Honestly, I'm not aware of there ever having been any contention.

ETA: Yes, we flew home yesterday after an absolutely marvelous time. The days were bright and golden, if a little too cool for the wardrobe I packed. We picnicked and picked apples at an orchard outside Ottawa on Sunday and it was glorious.

 

[lisaviolet]

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/loca...ress-the-nation-on-covid-19-fight-second-waveToday's Speech from the Throne, which is a requirement to re-open Parliament (after the prorogation) addressed many Covid-related financial issues. Trudeau's follow-up address talked more about intangibles. Long-story-short, all the proposed provisions make it obvious that the government does not anticipate an end to the State of Medical Emergency for an indefinite period of time. Interestingly, although the leaders of all other parties were vocal in their criticism of the finances, none of them disagree with the premise of dealing with the virus in whatever measure possible. Honestly, I'm not aware of there ever having been any contention.

ETA: Yes, we flew home yesterday after an absolutely marvelous time. The days were bright and golden, if a little too cool for the wardrobe I packed. We picnicked and picked apples at an orchard outside Ottawa on Sunday and it was glorious.

How long did he speak with his more informal address about Covid Annette? I was out but honestly I have difficulty listening to him, laughing. His intonation and flair grate on me, within mere minutes.

-------

Wonderful that you had fun.

 

[ronandannette]

How long did he speak with his more informal address about Covid Annette? I was out but honestly I have difficulty listening to him, laughing. His intonation and flair grate on me, within mere minutes.

-------

Wonderful that you had fun.

Well, when your strongest credential is as a drama teacher, you go with what you know, right? Seriously though, I didn’t catch the entire thing - I was at work and listening to Global’s coverage on the radio. The main gist was that “normal” is nowhere on the horizon.

 

[NFLDERS]

A gathering in the GTA (Toronto) the other night garnered the party guests $850. fines, still watching to read what the host gets. This is exactly that which I wanted to see transpire. Sooner would have been so much better...

 

[Karin1984]

Oh look, we were able to make it to the British newspapers with our little scandal! https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...utch-celebrities-rebel-over-covid-constraints

The Guardian is a decent newspaper, right ;-)

 

[ford family]

Oh look, we were able to make it to the British newspapers with our little scandal! https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...an is a decent newspaper, right ;-) [/QUOTE]

I understand that The Guardian is highly valued by people who keep caged parrots!

ford family

 

[mumto3girls]

[QUOTE="lisaviolet, post: 62338556, member: 39928After being at one of these gatherings I strongly believe that there is a strange and troubling mentality that if you love or care about someone you are somehow immune to having and sharing the virus. Like friendship or love is a superpower against it.
[/QUOTE]

Well put! I have noticed the same sort of thing in my own life—a family member thinking I’m “safe” because I’m family. I tell my dad that I would never knowingly expose him to some type of illness, but I could just as easily have COVID-19 as a stranger. I take precautions, but you never know.

 

[Weedy]

In Florida today

 

[BadPinkTink]

In Florida today
View attachment 528060

meanwhile in Ireland, my county is in Level 3 local lockdown until October 10, a second county has just been put back to the same restrictions and my electoral district has a case rate of 159 per 1000 population.

 

[lisaviolet]

Seriously though, I didn’t catch the entire thing - I was at work and listening to Global’s coverage on the radio.

You know I never understood the *centre of the universe* quip. Until I said, Why was Annette still at work at 6:30 pm and onward?

Oh wait there are other time zones in Canada, besides mine.

Well put! I have noticed the same sort of thing in my own life—a family member thinking I’m “safe” because I’m family. I tell my dad that I would never knowingly expose him to some type of illness, but I could just as easily have COVID-19 as a stranger. I take precautions, but you never know.

You do never know.

I realized after I wrote that it is indeed playing out that way. It isn't just our thoughts. I heard yet another story of a family hit hard.

In the States especially we have seen stories of multiple family members dying within days of each other. I can't imagine.

There have been many days lately where I have had the blasphemous thought of being thankful my parents have passed away. One, both were so damn social I wouldn't have had a moment's sleep sighing over their choices or stubbornness. Two, I still remember the stress of keeping my mother healthy while looking after her with a chronic condition. The flu - a bad cold - a fall. I can't imagine Covid.

And this is what I don't get with people and their choices. I know we can't control anything. And it can come through any of us with family. But I personally could not emotionally survive being/feeling responsible for anyone's virus if they passed away or became very ill.

 

[ronandannette]

...There have been many days lately where I have had the blasphemous thought of being thankful my parents have passed away. One, both were so damn social I wouldn't have had a moment's sleep sighing over their choices or stubbornness. Two, I still remember the stress of keeping my mother healthy while looking after her with a chronic condition. The flu - a bad cold - a fall. I can't imagine Covid.

And this is what I don't get with people and their choices. I know we can't control anything. And it can come through any of us with family. But I personally could not emotionally survive being/feeling responsible for anyone's virus if they passed away or became very ill.

Not a terrible thought, and certainly not one that's exclusive to you. I've discussed this with many people and we're all of the same consensus. Wouldn't it just be impossible? My own DMom died at 99 while under palliative care on a dementia ward. I just KNOW I could not have let her remain in the facility once news emerged of the conditions within them. I may have had to quit my job and rent an apartment that would have been suitable to care for her in. It would have been a devastating.

 

[elphaba91]

So, in Victoria our 14 day average is now 22.1 and 7 of the last 8 days have been in the teens. Today we’ve moved to the second stage of re-opening which, for me, means absolutely nothing. The steps announced include:

• No more curfew (this one I’m actually annoyed about as I think it was actually beneficial and I think it is only being dropped for political reasons)
• Outdoor gatherings for up to 5 people from 2 households (but must be within your 5km radius - so if your family and friends don’t live locally you’re SOL)
• Primary school (prep to grade 6) and year 11 and 12 students returning to school
• Daycare available for all children (previously you needed a permit)
• Increased capacity at building sites, distribution centres, manufacturing sites, abattoirs
• Sole trader outdoor workers (e.g. gardeners) allowed to operate on their own
• Dog groomers open
• Private real estate inspections permitted
• Dentists and other allied health open for non-urgent matters
• Outdoor pools open (the only thing on the list that I may take advantage of)
• Weddings with up to 5 people plus celebrant
• Outdoor religious gatherings with up to 5 people plus a faith leader

I actually found it very disheartening; it was a bit like Christmas except everyone got presents except for me. The one thing I would really have liked is for the 5km radius to be dropped/extended, at least for outdoors, but that did not happen.

They also announced that they are tightening restrictions on face coverings and will require an actual mask to be worn; a face shield or a bandana is no longer acceptable. For my mother, who has to enforce the rules at her work and cops a lot of abuse for doing so (she was even spat on the other day!) that isn’t good news.

The one piece of good news is that as we have done so much better than the modelling predicted, we now don’t have to wait until October 26 to move to the next stage; that will happen when we reach the target of a 14 day average of less than 5 cases per day and a total of less than 5 cases of unknown origin in 14 days. We are on track to reach that by around October 19. They’ve also indicated that there may be some flexibility if case numbers are higher but seem contained to aged care for example.

The other interesting development this weekend was the sudden resignation of the Health Minister. There is currently an inquiry into the bungled hotel quarantine scheme and it would seem that absolutely nobody knows whose idea it was to engage private security firms. The Health Minister not only claimed that she didn’t know, she also claimed that she wasn’t even aware it was happening until June (despite being on the podium at the press conference when it was announced in March!). On Friday afternoon the Premier testified that he believed the Health Minister and her department were in charge of the scheme. On Saturday morning she resigned, stating she could no longer be part of his cabinet.

 

[ronandannette]

So, in Victoria our 14 day average is now 22.1 and 7 of the last 8 days have been in the teens. Today we’ve moved to the second stage of re-opening which, for me, means absolutely nothing. The steps announced include:

• No more curfew (this one I’m actually annoyed about as I think it was actually beneficial and I think it is only being dropped for political reasons)
• Outdoor gatherings for up to 5 people from 2 households (but must be within your 5km radius - so if your family and friends don’t live locally you’re SOL)
• Primary school (prep to grade 6) and year 11 and 12 students returning to school
• Daycare available for all children (previously you needed a permit)
• Increased capacity at building sites, distribution centres, manufacturing sites, abattoirs
• Sole trader outdoor workers (e.g. gardeners) allowed to operate on their own
• Dog groomers open
• Private real estate inspections permitted
• Dentists and other allied health open for non-urgent matters
• Outdoor pools open (the only thing on the list that I may take advantage of)
• Weddings with up to 5 people plus celebrant
• Outdoor religious gatherings with up to 5 people plus a faith leader

I actually found it very disheartening; it was a bit like Christmas except everyone got presents except for me. The one thing I would really have liked is for the 5km radius to be dropped/extended, at least for outdoors, but that did not happen.

They also announced that they are tightening restrictions on face coverings and will require an actual mask to be worn; a face shield or a bandana is no longer acceptable. For my mother, who has to enforce the rules at her work and cops a lot of abuse for doing so (she was even spat on the other day!) that isn’t good news.

The one piece of good news is that as we have done so much better than the modelling predicted, we now don’t have to wait until October 26 to move to the next stage; that will happen when we reach the target of a 14 day average of less than 5 cases per day and a total of less than 5 cases of unknown origin in 14 days. We are on track to reach that by around October 19. They’ve also indicated that there may be some flexibility if case numbers are higher but seem contained to aged care for example.

The other interesting development this weekend was the sudden resignation of the Health Minister. There is currently an inquiry into the bungled hotel quarantine scheme and it would seem that absolutely nobody knows whose idea it was to engage private security firms. The Health Minister not only claimed that she didn’t know, she also claimed that she wasn’t even aware it was happening until June (despite being on the podium at the press conference when it was announced in March!). On Friday afternoon the Premier testified that he believed the Health Minister and her department were in charge of the scheme. On Saturday morning she resigned, stating she could no longer be part of his cabinet.

What I think will be interesting to see is what happens when certain restrictions are lifted - most specifically kids going back to school and people returning to their places of work. You've locked down HARD twice now and dwindled your cases to extremely low numbers under those conditions. If world-wide trends hold, you will see a rise in cases. I simply don't believe we can entirely eradicate transmission and I don't see that as a target to aim for with revolving-door restrictions.

 

[Jrb1979]

What I think will be interesting to see is what happens when certain restrictions are lifted - most specifically kids going back to school and people returning to their places of work. You've locked down HARD twice now and dwindled your cases to extremely low numbers under those conditions. If world-wide trends hold, you will see a rise in cases. I simply don't believe we can entirely eradicate transmission and I don't see that as a target to aim for with revolving-door restrictions.

The goal be to keep cases as low as possible so contact tracing can happen. The problem at least in Ontario is that many of the under 40 refuse to as they call it "rat on their friends"

 

[ronandannette]

How long did he speak with his more informal address about Covid Annette? I was out but honestly I have difficulty listening to him, laughing. His intonation and flair grate on me, within mere minutes.

-------

Wonderful that you had fun.

Oh good gravy Lisa, you are so right and you are wrecking me. I just tried to watch a brief JT address regarding vaccines and all I could picture was:

 

[mommasita]

Chiming in from Montreal. What to say, what to say. 896 new cases in the Province of Quebec today, I believe 360 in Montreal. We are to become red tonight, tomorrow ? Nobody really knows what this means. We were asked to do NOTHING for 28 days. No socializing at all. Please stay home.

I believe it was stated school will not be closed no matter what, we will see if this is retracted. We only have medical exemptions for online learning, soooo... our health minister says he is trying to find a way to keep our economy going while avoiding a shutdown.

The photos of the bars, mont-royal, etc, from this weekend are downright embarrassing. I realize it was 90 degrees, and I once was young too, and so I keep trying to tell myself what would you have done at 20, I hope I would not have been in a crowd of thousands in a pandemic in the worst hit city in the country, who is now once again emerging as the same.

Personally, this is very hard week for me and my family. Friday will be 3 years that I have lost my daughter , and we have never been home, in this house, we always leave, it is just that much harder mentally that we can not. My sister has offered her place in Tremblant, and they won’t be allowing Montrealers, they will once again be stopping on the highway and asking Id.

 

[ronandannette]

The goal be to keep cases as low as possible so contact tracing can happen. The problem at least in Ontario is that many of the under 40 refuse to as they call it "rat on their friends"

I was in Ontario last week and was surprised that all restaurants were taking contact information before they would seat you. I'm curious what happens next. Will I get a call if any person that was present reports testing positive? Who will report it to whom? Who would contact all of us? FWIW, collecting contact information isn't happening like that here in Alberta so I'm not sure how contact-tracing is taking place or what priority is being put on it.