DVC Technology and The Dining Plan

[bicker]

That's actually a brilliant idea.

 

[DisFlan]

I don't really care if we get a dining plan or not, but there's a simple way to implement it. Just put it through as its own SEPARATE CARD for each guest. It doesn't even have to be through DVC!

You: "I'd like dining plan cards for two adults for six nights. We're staying on points at BWV as DVC members. Here are my dates...."

CRO: "Thank you for your order, Ms/Mr Jones. At $35 a day for each of you, that will be $420 for a six night stay. The cards will be good for 14 days from first use. Would you like them mailed to you, or will you be picking them up at Guest Relations?"

Big whoop. It's so simple that they'll probably never do it.

Just buy a d@mn dining plan! It wouldn't require extreme or difficult computer programming. It could be set up just like buying ANY ticket from Disney. Order them ahead of time or get them at check-in. Have them put on your room key or keep them separate.

If Disney can offer park tickets for X number of days, they can offer a dining plan "ticket" (for DVC or anyone else) the same way. Just like with the MYW park tickets, they could even offer a "menu" of dining plans. Three TS meals a day, two TS or just one and a CS meal. Like park tickets, they could also be expiring or non-expiring.

The lack of anything happening so far is why I'm convinced that neither DVC (nor Disney) is all that interested in offering a dining plan to DVC members - through MS, CRO or anywhere else. Disney wants dining tied and limited to plan packages right now. DVC doesn't actually HAVE to be connected in any way to a dining plan made available to members. But for whatever reason, DVC will foot-drag and obfuscate about an "in-house plan" and talk about hurdles, programming problems, "communication" problems, expense, potential for abuse - yada yada - until most of us think it just isn't practical to implement it. I don't buy it.

DisFlan

 

[bicker]

I think you're missing the point. The dining plan, as it is presented today, is evidently underwritten by the hotels, and any expenses associated with the program, such as when people get "more than their money's worth" for it, come out of the hotels' revenues. We DVC members don't stay at the hotels, but rather at our own timeshare. So the only way such a program would be offered to us is if they can come up with a way where the program would be profitable, i.e., when people get "less than their money's worth" for it -- an arrangement that Disney knows DVC members generally avoid.

 

[DizWacko]

I think you're missing the point. The dining plan, as it is presented today, is evidently underwritten by the hotels, and any expenses associated with the program, such as when people get "more than their money's worth" for it, come out of the hotels' revenues. We DVC members don't stay at the hotels, but rather at our own timeshare. So the only way such a program would be offered to us is if they can come up with a way where the program would be profitable, i.e., when people get "less than their money's worth" for it -- an arrangement that Disney knows DVC members generally avoid.

Firstly, no offense it was an interesting post. But just because something is profitable for a company, doesnt mean that the consumer loses. Otherwise you might as well just throw our capitalist economy out the window.

I understand your point, but from the responses on this board I believe there are quite a few DVC people who would pay for the dining plan. And it is apparently profitable, I dont think Disney would keep it alive if it wasnt (you CAN get the dining plan without paying rack rate.)

 

[Chuck S]

I understand your point, but from the responses on this board I believe there are quite a few DVC people who would pay for the dining plan. And it is apparently profitable, I dont think Disney would keep it alive if it wasnt (you CAN get the dining plan without paying rack rate.)

Only with a limited number of codes, like AAA. Deeply discounted rooms are NOT eligible, like AP rooms and FL residents. That may change next year, but I don;t expect discounted non-package rooms to be eligible at the same price as package purchasers.

 

[DisFlan]

The dining plan, as it is presented today, is evidently underwritten by the hotels, and any expenses associated with the program, such as when people get "more than their money's worth" for it, come out of the hotels' revenues. We DVC members don't stay at the hotels, but rather at our own timeshare.

Then I'm not sure what the rationale is for the DDE discount. Disney has already "lost money" on many DVCers with discounted APs, and then they've added the DDE discounts on top of it. I don't see how the hotels are "underwriting" the DDE part of this. And what happens with the restaurants that aren't connected to hotels?

With our DDE discounts on our last trip, we came in close to what we would have paid for the dining plan for our group. And there's less control over what the DDE discounts are used for. They're all for the more expensive table service places and lounges - including alcohol. None of the cheaper counter services are included. (Disney would probably have lost less on us if we HAD been on a dining plan.)

It's really not clear to me as to why any form of dining plan has to be considered solely as "underwritten by the hotels". Or why they would lose LESS money on DVC members with discounted APs and the DDE cards. I'd think the logical approach for Disney would be to bypass the AP/discount/DDE/discount workaround and offer some form of dining plan to DVCers. They'd probably make more (or lose less).

Offering a plan is one thing, utilization is another. How many DVCers would actually purchase a dining plan? Personally, I prefer the current AP/DDE setup. The dining plan has too many limitations.

DisFlan

 

[bicker]

DDE has a membership fee.

 

[tjkraz]

DDE is also only offered to AP holders and FL residents--established frequent WDW guests. It's an incentive to get these guests into Disney restaurants rather than eating off-site or, in the case of many DVCers, instead of using their own kitchen.

You have the annual fee. For FL residents, you're leveling the playing field between other cheaper non-Disney alternatives. For AP holders, you have the prerequisite of purchasing an AP.

MYW Dining can only be purchased when you book a room AND park tickets through Disney. As stated, you can't get the most deeply discounted room rates with the dining package. And, by purchasing park tickets through Disney, more money is going directly into their pockets instead of Ticketmania or any other third-party vendor.

I have mixed feelings on MYW dining being offered to DVC members. I think that DVC / WDW hoped offering DDE would satisfy people, but that isn't always the case. I think they would be clearly justified in charging higher rate to DVC members (since we're not paying hundreds for our cash room and many would not be buying MYW tickets either), but also think there's a small chance Disney will just bite the bullet and give us the prevailing prices.

 

[bicker]

I did a quick eval about how much value we'd get out of the dining program and it would add up to well over $50 per day per adult, so I cannot imagine that there would be an offering priced at $38 per day per adult with no other strings attached. We're going to spend that $50 if they don't offer us a dining program, so they're going to want to offer us something whereby they can get, say $55, perhaps with the incentive for us to get more expensive breakfasts or lunches than we would have otherwise: So they get an extra $5 and we get an extra (I don't know, let's say) $8 or $9 worth of value. Win-win. There's no sense in offering us more, for less than we're already willing to pay.

 

[DisFlan]

The $50 DDE fee we pay is ameliorated by the DVC AP discount. It still comes in as less paid out than regular cost. We made up the cost of the DDE card on our first day. We didn't change our eating habits because of the DDE. We got a discount on what we would have normally spent on food.

Yes, I'm aware that as a group we rarely buy packages or use the hotels heavily or buy as many park tickets, etc. etc. - but that's not what I'm questioning. What I don't understand is why all the excuses and foot dragging when they've already stated that a DVC plan IS in the works. What decade are they planning to introduce it?

DisFlan

 

[tjkraz]

What I don't understand is why all the excuses and foot dragging when they've already stated that a DVC plan IS in the works. What decade are they planning to introduce it?

My guess is that coming up with an agreeable financial model is part of the hold-up.

MYW dining is a loss-leader incentive to get people to buy additional products. In DVC, there simply is no equivalent. You can't make people pay additional dues or buy more points to get the MYW dining. At the same time, members who aren't privy to this level of discussion would think Disney is taking advantage of them if they (understanably) charge more to DVC members for the dining than cash guests.

Catch 22.

 

[DisFlan]

tjkraz -

You may have hit on why it won't work. I can hear the howls now. "$40 a day? Forget it!" You'd think DVC might have thought about this little problem before they said anything.


DisFlan

 

[InstImpres]

The $50 DDE fee we pay is ameliorated by the DVC AP discount. It still comes in as less paid out than regular cost. We made up the cost of the DDE card on our first day. We didn't change our eating habits because of the DDE. We got a discount on what we would have normally spent on food.

I am happy with my DDE but I will say it did change or habits. With the 20% off at sit down resturants it really bridged the gap between "fast food" and sit down. We did more sitdown than ever now that we have the card.

 

[DisFlan]

We didn't do more sit-downs than usual with the DDE card, but we sure enjoyed them more! We saved quite a chunk.

We don't do many counter service meals, but it's hard to pass up a burger at Pecos Bill's. It's a first day tradition: Pecos Bill's...then Pirates!

DisFlan

 

[bicker]

You'd think DVC might have thought about this little problem before they said anything.

As far as I know, DVC, itself, has not said anything. Rather, when pressed for an answer, some DVC employees have said something along those lines. BIG difference.

Chances are that the reason why DVC hasn't made any official statements is because they haven't found a viable pricing model yet. By the same token, that doesn't mean that conditions may not change sufficiently to make a pricing model viable. An economic boom, as we had in the mid 1990s, would probably be enough to pave the way for sufficient receptiveness to a $45 or $50 per day dining program.

 

[CarolMN]

As far as I know, DVC, itself, has not said anything. Rather, when pressed for an answer, some DVC employees have said something along those lines. BIG difference....(snip)....

Jim Lewis - head of DVC told DVC members on the last members' cruise that DVC was working on a dining plan for DVC members. While I grant that there has not been any "official announcement in writing", it seems to me if the Head of DVC says so, it's a lot more credible than "some DVC employees".

FWIW, I really do believe that DVC is getting a computer "makeover" and that many of the things we want are associated with it. In spite of all the computer industry workers we have posting here, AFAIK, none of them have any experience or direct knowledge of DVC's system. Therefore, I tend to believe DVC rather than those who are only speculating based on their experience elsewhere.

For many of the reasons already listed by others, it also makes sense to me that DVC's Dining plan will be different than that currently offered as an add on to room & ticket packages. I fully expect to see several posts complaining about whatever is offered when it finally does get announced. Maybe we short start a poll / contest to guess how many "complaint posts" there will be about it in the first week or two, LOL!

Best wishes -

 

[mom2alix]

The dining plan is profitable to disney because the participants pay rack rates for their rooms.

Just FYI - I was talking to a friend who works as a campus recruiter for Disney. He attended some seminars at WDW last year where the lecturer was the head of counter service/outdoor foods for MK. Anyway, I was asking him about the dining plans, etc. and the discussions here. He said that DPs are NOT subsidized by the hotels (at least not the paid plans, that free dining thing was a marketing deal).

According to the lectures he attended, dining plans are profitable for Disney mostly because the majority of people who buy them don't fully utilize them. (Hard to believe if you read these boards, but not everyone who goes to WDW is a planning freak like the folks here. I know, I know, how do they live like that? )

Disney already has the money, but most people will leave with unused credits still on their account. They simply have a hard time actually eating that much. Another reason the DP works for Disney is they have a guaranteed sale. Once you've purchased DP you're not very likely to eat off-site. The DP also works better for Disney than the old voucher systems because they lock you into 1 TS and 1 CS PER DAY/PER PERSON, whereas with the vouchers, people could just buy the number they needed (less potential waste). That's also why we should expect to see more reports where folks are required to use a credit for each person present who's on the plan (no more paying OOP for the child and using their credit later).


The dining plan is also advantageous to Disney because they can increase/decrease traffic to specific restaurants based on whether they participate in the program (Or like CRT, by charging more credits since the demand is so high). Based on dining plan purchases, it is also easier to predict overall capacity. They can also adjust menus to ensure profitablilty under the plan as we've seen reported here.

Anyway, I thought his insights were pretty interesting. FWIW

 

[BCV23]

All of that is very interesting and makes perfect sense to me.

And aside from the free dining, I would doubt that WDW loses money on the dining portion of the plan even on those visitors who use every last credit. WDW certainly wouldn't make as much money as it would for someone paying cash but the tradeoff is that they have guests who are committed to eat at WDW rather than offsite.

 

[dizplanner]

<QUOTE>
Just FYI - I was talking to a friend who works as a campus recruiter for Disney. He attended some seminars at WDW last year where the lecturer was the head of counter service/outdoor foods for MK. Anyway, I was asking him about the dining plans, etc. and the discussions here. He said that DPs are NOT subsidized by the hotels (at least not the paid plans, that free dining thing was a marketing deal).

</QUOTE>
I was wondering about this. People are assuming there is a hotel subsidity when there might will not be one. If there is no subsidity, then it is up the restaurants to participate or not - if they don't, people won't eat there if they are on the dining plan and if a large number of people are on the dining plan, then they have to offer it or risk going out of business. I'm sure Disney owned restaurants don't have a choice - Disney decides that for them - they may just have a choice of 1 or 2 credits.

The advantage to the restaurants is to get people to eat more table service meals (how many posts have you seen where the person said they normally only eat counter service and maybe one or two character meals), eat more appetizers and desserts and they win through unused credits.

Now Disney made rules for the program based on marketing decisions - i.e. packages only with room and tickets - they wanted people to stay onsite, purchase their tickets from Disney and now, eat on site.

So what does this mean for DVC? Well, if true, the room subsidity becomes an non-issue. So they can offer the plan at the same price. But I do think they will still tie it to the number of nights and for everyone in the room (to increase the likelyhood of unused credits) and to a ticket purchase. So AP holders will be out of luck at DVC just like they are at the regular hotels.

So why is it taking so long? First of all, given the evidence we have seen of lack of communication between different parts of Disney, I wouldn't be surprised that DVC found about about it the same time the rest of us did. So some months passed before DVC realized there was a significant issue here - after all, there was the Wishes dining plan previously that wasn't a big deal that DVC owners didn't get. Then they had to decide they wanted to do something, decide how to do it and negociate with the restaurants to be included (and this could potentially take a long time particularly if they were busy dealing with other issues - like how popular the plan actually was). Now we get to the technical issues, most likely months later. Changing an existing system is not as simple as just changing the code. You have to corridinate releases, do extensive testing to make sure you didn't break something as well as making sure your changes work in all the corner cases that people will think up, update your training documentation, train users, etc. Then there are the marketing issues - I can see it being very likely that the dining people agreed to inclusion, but only after the start of the year - after the already announced price increase. DVC may have decided that they want to announce it at the annual meetings, even if it could have been ready sooner.

I think I want the dining plan for the freedom of it, but I'm not positive that it is a cost savings for me. Because if I get it, I am assuming everyone has to purchase tickets - and an annual pass might be a good idea for me and my husband if we go back within a year. And for the rest, we would purchase the tickets from Ticketmania for a discount - we would lose some of that discount (I assume we still get the Disney advance purchase discount.

 

[bicker]

While I grant that there has not been any "official announcement in writing", it seems to me if the Head of DVC says so, it's a lot more credible than "some DVC employees".

I wouldn't say that. My experience is that if a company isn't willing to guarantee something in writing, the promises aren't worth relying on. If an executive isn't willing to sign their name to something, then they're basically just another random employee saying something. That's why it'll be interesting to see how such a question is answered at the condominium meeting -- or actually, to see how the answer to such a question at the condominium meeting is recorded in the minutes.

I fully expect to see several posts complaining about whatever is offered when it finally does get announced. Maybe we short start a poll / contest to guess how many "complaint posts" there will be about it in the first week or two, LOL!

Heck. There would be complaint posts even if the plan offered is identical to what the revenue customers are offered. Some people will never be satisfied.