GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[71 Truck]

I have read every post in this thread. Not every one is right not every one is wrong in their opinions on why people act and think the way they do. This is my opinion that is include in that statement.
A lot has happened in the last six months around the world that most have never experienced in their life time and hope to never experience again.
If you read history on pandemics we have lived through several in the last 50 years and most know nothing about them because at the time we did not have 24 hour news.
In 1969 the world went through the Hong Kong Flu. It killed over 1 million people world wide. CDC said it could have killed as many as 100,000 Americans. The flu finally burned out around 1969 to 1970. It came back again in 1970 and is still around today.
What I an getting at is people learned to live with it and live their lives. I do not remember the world shutting down for the flu or when it showed up again.
Every year in this country 65,000 Americans die from the seasonal flu. We except this as normal and go about living our lives.
What number of COVID19 infections and deaths do we have to get to to except this as normal like we do for the seasonal flu?
I can tell you this, most of the people of this country (United States) will never let the government shut down the country the way the did for the last several months. They will just go about living their lives and take the risk of getting sick just like we do every year for the seasonal flu.
The scary thing to think about is not a virus that has a lower mortality rate like this virus, it is to be scared for a virus that has a mortality rate of between 20 and 30%.
I think when this all started the government was making decisions was trying to do what thy thought was right. After a while I think it became political.
Someone once told me the scariest word to hear were "we are the government and we are here to help you"

 

[cabanafrau]

I have read every post in this thread. Not every one is right not every one is wrong in their opinions on why people act and think the way they do. This is my opinion that is include in that statement.
A lot has happened in the last six months around the world that most have never experienced in their life time and hope to never experience again.
If you read history on pandemics we have lived through several in the last 50 years and most know nothing about them because at the time we did not have 24 hour news.
In 1969 the world went through the Hong Kong Flu. It killed over 1 million people world wide. CDC said it could have killed as many as 100,000 Americans. The flu finally burned out around 1969 to 1970. It came back again in 1970 and is still around today.
What I an getting at is people learned to live with it and live their lives. I do not remember the world shutting down for the flu or when it showed up again.
Every year in this country 65,000 Americans die from the seasonal flu. We except this as normal and go about living our lives.
What number of COVID19 infections and deaths do we have to get to to except this as normal like we do for the seasonal flu?
I can tell you this, most of the people of this country (United States) will never let the government shut down the country the way the did for the last several months. They will just go about living their lives and take the risk of getting sick just like we do every year for the seasonal flu.
The scary thing to think about is not a virus that has a lower mortality rate like this virus, it is to be scared for a virus that has a mortality rate of between 20 and 30%.
I think when this all started the government was making decisions was trying to do what thy thought was right. After a while I think it became political.
Someone once told me the scariest word to hear were "we are the government and we are here to help you"

Interesting that countries all around the world shut down for this virus. That seems to mark this as something different. I don't understand what makes America's socio-political structure provide some sort of super immunity to this pandemic? Within the past few weeks a UK health minister publicly stated that if they had shut down one week earlier than they did (their original strategy had been to ride it out) they would have halved their death rate.

 

[shelemm]

There are plenty of people in this board who have said we should all be staying home and not going anywhere.

I do not see any of those posts. When were they made? Can you point me to them?

For me, it's being smart about opening. We are clearly in a period of decreased transmissiveness, so that's a good thing. Plus we know more that it's relatively safer outdoors and moving around. Where I live and work, office buildings have put up signs, and people have been wearing face masks and seriously social distancing, (including 2 to an elevator) so it's a good way to open things up. I am all in favor of that. Retail operations have been very good about providing hand sanitizers and protection for their employees.

The fact is that, although we have decreased the deaths from 2,000 per day to 1,000 per day in the US, that is still an alarming daily toll, especially considering this is a a safer period. At this point it would be reasonable to project even a higher death rate than before if the relief is only seasonal.

 

[JimMIA]

I live here and when I wear my mask out in public I get looked at like I have 5 heads.

I think the difference is the infection rate where you live.

Brevard County, where you live, and Vero Beach where Holden's relatives were visiting, have very low infection rates.

I live in Miami, which is THE hotspot for Florida. We reported 533 new cases yesterday; Brevard County has 597 cases TOTAL.

We are doing a LOT more testing in the last several weeks and our positive rate has crept up from <3% to 6.14% last week (we were >20% early on!).

Brevard's positive rate has also increased...to 2.25% last week.

So I think it's natural for people to take things much more seriously where infection rates are significant. Here, you don't go in open businesses without a mask. They throw you out.

 

[Feralpeg]

Yesterday, Major Demmings responded to a question at a news conference. The county has reclosed several area bars due to reported cases of the virus coming out of those bars. The major was asked if he would consider another lockdown. He responded that they are watching the numbers. He doesn't want to issue another lockdown and he doesn't want to require people to wear masks, but it is a possibility. He asked that the people of Orange County voluntarily wear masks and maintain social distancing.

My take, from the conference, was that we could see at least a limited lockdown, if the number of new cases continues to rise. People, in this area, are not being careful. Many think the virus is over. I actually heard someone say that that they don't understand why some people are still wearing masks since the pandemic is over.

 

[shelemm]

I can tell you this, most of the people of this country (United States) will never let the government shut down the country the way the did for the last several months.

There was never a (United States) government shutdown. Individual jurisdictions, whether they are state or local, decided. In many places people themselves used behavior modification that went beyond what they were asked to do. You are framing this with prejudice. Naturally, you wind up framing any shutdown as a political tool.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I do not see any of those posts. When were they made? Can you point me to them?

For me, it's being smart about opening. We are clearly in a period of decreased transmissiveness, so that's a good thing. Plus we know more that it's relatively safer outdoors and moving around. Where I live and work, office buildings have put up signs, and people have been wearing face masks and seriously social distancing, (including 2 to an elevator) so it's a good way to open things up. I am all in favor of that. Retail operations have been very good about providing hand sanitizers and protection for their employees.

The fact is that, although we have decreased the deaths from 2,000 per day to 1,000 per day in the US, that is still an alarming daily toll, especially considering this is a a safer period. At this point it would be reasonable to project even a higher death rate than before if the relief is only seasonal.

Yes, go read through the Should We Be Worried thread. Or truthfully any other thread related to Covid. I will not take the time to find individual posts for you, but since I’ve responded to them, I know they exist.

I have NEVER advocated for anything more than a safe reopening, so I’m not sure where the disconnect is coming from what you’re reading from me. The post you originally quoted from me was in response to somebody believing we were opening too fast and needed to stay in longer. You and I may have a difference of opinion on what fast looks like, but I’ve also been clear throughout these threads that I am speaking for MY area and MY choices and that my area doesn’t have numbers that show we have reopened too fast.

But deaths in the US have been trending downwards from between 400-1000 this entire month. I agree it’s too many, but considering many of the states have actually been open for awhile, a downward trend is good. And no, it’s not just NY. California’s has been trending downward as well and only had 25 on the 14th. I have never said we were out of the woods or we can do what we want, but I have advocated that people stop looking at just new cases as their basis of doing things because it doesn’t give a complete picture - nor does it contradict what they told us would happen from the start.

 

[Christine]

I have read every post in this thread. Not every one is right not every one is wrong in their opinions on why people act and think the way they do. This is my opinion that is include in that statement.
A lot has happened in the last six months around the world that most have never experienced in their life time and hope to never experience again.
If you read history on pandemics we have lived through several in the last 50 years and most know nothing about them because at the time we did not have 24 hour news.
In 1969 the world went through the Hong Kong Flu. It killed over 1 million people world wide. CDC said it could have killed as many as 100,000 Americans. The flu finally burned out around 1969 to 1970. It came back again in 1970 and is still around today.
What I an getting at is people learned to live with it and live their lives. I do not remember the world shutting down for the flu or when it showed up again.
Every year in this country 65,000 Americans die from the seasonal flu. We except this as normal and go about living our lives.
What number of COVID19 infections and deaths do we have to get to to except this as normal like we do for the seasonal flu?
I can tell you this, most of the people of this country (United States) will never let the government shut down the country the way the did for the last several months. They will just go about living their lives and take the risk of getting sick just like we do every year for the seasonal flu.
The scary thing to think about is not a virus that has a lower mortality rate like this virus, it is to be scared for a virus that has a mortality rate of between 20 and 30%.
I think when this all started the government was making decisions was trying to do what thy thought was right. After a while I think it became political.
Someone once told me the scariest word to hear were "we are the government and we are here to help you"

The Hong Kong flu killed around 100,000 Americans, yes. But there were ZERO mitigation efforts in place. It was unfettered/unchecked. That was the worst outcome of the Hong Kong flu.

For COVID, we locked down and we also have put in (in most places) pretty strict distancing controls. After 3 months with many mitigations, we are over 100,000 and seeing increases now. Your comparison does not work.

For the regular, seasonal flu, we may have 60,000+ deaths. That's with no mitigation and vaccines that may or may not work well and with most of the population not getting vaccinated.

Had we not done what we did with mitigations, that death toll would have been far higher.

 

[msjprincess]

The Hong Kong flu killed around 100,000 Americans, yes. But there were ZERO mitigation efforts in place. It was unfettered/unchecked. That was the worst outcome of the Hong Kong flu.

For COVID, we locked down and we also have put in (in most places) pretty strict distancing controls. After 4 months with many mitigations, we are over 100,000 and seeing increases now. Your comparison does not work.

For the regular, seasonal flu, we may have 60,000+ deaths. That's with no mitigation and vaccines.

Had we not done what we did with mitigations, that death toll would have been far higher.

Exactly. It killed 100,000 people over a much longer period of time with people just going about their business as usual.

I see people use the Hong Kong flu as an example of why we shouldn't shut anything down. I don't think they're making the point that they think they are making.

 

[Christine]

Exactly. It killed 100,000 people over a much longer period of time with people just going about their business as usual.

I see people use the Hong Kong flu as an example of why we shouldn't shut anything down. I don't think they're making the point that they think they are making.

No they are not. And I believe the death toll spanned from 1968 through 1969 (possibly 1970).

I was about 9 years old when that flu hit. My mother got it and locked her self in her room for about 8 days and kept away from us. I don't know how my father avoided it. I didn't get it either.

 

[Searc]

Florida added almost 2800 more cases today, with over a 6% positive rate, more than double what it was in late May.

 

[RamblingMad]

Florida added almost 2800 more cases today, with over a 6% positive rate, double what it was in late May.

Their cases are spiking. But it looks like it’s really about Miami.

 

[cmp3400]

I think the difference is the infection rate where you live.

Brevard County, where you live, and Vero Beach where Holden's relatives were visiting, have very low infection rates.

I live in Miami, which is THE hotspot for Florida. We reported 533 new cases yesterday; Brevard County has 597 cases TOTAL.

We are doing a LOT more testing in the last several weeks and our positive rate has crept up from <3% to 6.14% last week (we were >20% early on!).

Brevard's positive rate has also increased...to 2.25% last week.

So I think it's natural for people to take things much more seriously where infection rates are significant. Here, you don't go in open businesses without a mask. They throw you out.

That comparsion is very interesting, thank you!!

Orange County's positive rate today is 8.3% (with a 5 day average of over 6.5%----2 weeks ago our 5 day average was under 2%---best I can tell from the graph one week early one we were right around 9% )

It is SOOO different county to county, but when it comes to Reopening Florida I assume most people on this Disney oriented board are (at least a little bit) wondering about the Disney area

That said, the only place I see people wearing masks in large numbers is Costco--where they don't give you the choice.

 

[SaintsManiac]

The Hong Kong flu killed around 100,000 Americans, yes. But there were ZERO mitigation efforts in place. It was unfettered/unchecked. That was the worst outcome of the Hong Kong flu.

For COVID, we locked down and we also have put in (in most places) pretty strict distancing controls. After 4 months with many mitigations, we are over 100,000 and seeing increases now. Your comparison does not work.

For the regular, seasonal flu, we may have 60,000+ deaths. That's with no mitigation and vaccines that may or may not work well and with most of the population not getting vaccinated.

Had we not done what we did with mitigations, that death toll would have been far higher.

It's a shame that this still needs to be explained to people. You would think after 4 months it wouldn't be necessary. Bless you for still having patience.

 

[Searc]

It's a shame that this still needs to be explained to people. You would think after 4 months it wouldn't be necessary. Bless you for still having patience.

I sure don't.

 

[sam_gordon]

I do not see any of those posts. When were they made? Can you point me to them?

Oh please. Those posts have been around about as much as those who say "open everything back up fully". I don't keep track of who said what, so trying to find the handful of posters who have said that out of the thousands of posts on the dozens of COVID threads would be like finding a needle in a haystack. But there have definitely been posters who have said everyone should just stay in their homes.

After 4 months with many mitigations

Really? All the lockdowns started in the middle of February? Semantics, I know, but you're the one who stressed 4 months.

 

[msjprincess]

Oh please. Those posts have been around about as much as those who say "open everything back up fully". I don't keep track of who said what, so trying to find the handful of posters who have said that out of the thousands of posts on the dozens of COVID threads would be like finding a needle in a haystack. But there have definitely been posters who have said everyone should just stay in their homes.

Really? All the lockdowns started in the middle of February? Semantics, I know, but you're the one who stressed 4 months.

You're right, it's even worse. It was a little over 2 months

 

[sam_gordon]

You're right, it's even worse. It was a little over 2 months

It's been 4 months since the first death.
It's been a little over 2 months since the lockdowns/cancellations started.

 

[osufeth24]

Since the first official death. It wouldn't surprise me at all if someone had died back in January, or earlier, but it was just coded as a flu death. Especially since more and more evidence is coming out it was in the states a lot earlier than people originally thought (with some evidence suggestion as early as December, possibly November)

 

[JimMIA]

Florida added almost 2800 more cases today, with over a 6% positive rate, more than double what it was in late May.

Florida's positive rate for the most recent week is 4.24%, down slightly from 4.67% the week before.