havaneselover
Dreaming about a Disney cruise
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2009
Quarterly taxes paid. CIP in the sock drawer.
-
Controversial Topics
Several months ago, I added a private sub-forum to allow members to discuss these topics without fear of infractions or banning. It's opt-in, opt-out. Click Here
I love credit cards so much! v3.0 (see first page for add'l details)
- Thread starter SouthFayetteFan
- Start date
- Status
LovesTimone
Christmas Day 2017
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2009
We have a regular Hilton Honors loyalty card, not connected to our Hilton C-Card that we already have...I did not realize that this was some other ways to add up the points... DH and I will be doing this today.. Thanks a bunch...
miztressuz
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2011
As you probably know, AmEx sign up bonuses are generally "once in a lifetime" so you want to make sure you are going for the best offer for you that you can because it could be the only one you get for that card. I believe there is still an incognito offer available for the Surpass of 150k for 3k. You just missed the all time high of 150k+$100 statement credit for 3k that ended 12/31. So I'd try at least for the higher points offer if you can make the extra spend. The incognito offers can also pull up on support links, if you have a safe avenue to do that (don't self support!!).
The alternative to the Surpass is the Biz card if you are concerned with your 5/24 stats and have a something that qualifies as a business or "business". Same benefits and fee as the Surpass but slightly different bonus earn categories (Surpass has grocery store whereas Biz has wireless, shipping, and some travel; I think it's some airfare and rental cars) The current best offer for that card is 125k +$100 statement credit for 3k. The all time high was 130k+a free night certificate but it had a higher spend req of 5k. So this isn't a bad offer and it's been consistent for some months now.
And the obligatory caution about AmEx, with the pop up it can be harder to get the bonus for additional cards if you don't seem like a "good" customer. If you meet the MSR then go dark for while before coming back for another card then they may give you the 'not eligible for bonus' pop up. There's no specific rules to follow to avoid the pop up because it changes per offer, but consistent spending seems to be a common theme for those that have avoided it. If you are interested in picking up the other Hilton cards too then you'd want to make sure you are in a position to continue high spending on the card. The Hilton cards seem to have a higher threshold for whatever that magic number is because many get a pop up on those, and yet some of those who got it on the Hilton card are able to get bonuses for other AmEx cards. If you are interested in more AmEx cards (not just the Hilton ones) you want to pick them up when in a position to keep AmEx happy.
I'm not yet in a position to be monogamous with AmEx so I'm still sewing my oats and hoping there's still good offers when I'm ready to "settle down" for my AmEx run.
calypso726
Escaping reality one Disney vacation at a time
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2006
While that is certainly true, the math only works for someone who is mostly transferring their miles to airlines and hotels and subjectively values their points at 2 cents. Sadly, this can lead someone to believe the card is not right for them if they don't spend that amount in dining and or travel each year. This line of thinking favors the bank and not the card holder. Let's not forget who TPG is in bed with, both literally and figuratively speaking as it were. Those types of articles, and for many other reasons are why I will only use TPG as a baseline for travel hacking a trip, which to be fair, is quite valuable information. Whatever I'm thinking of doing, he has likley done it and blogged about how he did it. After all, he is the one that put the Al Maha on my radar. So, for as much as most of the travel hacking community derides him as a shill for the banks, I think it is fair and just to give credit where credit is due. No pun intended. Nevertheless, we should still do our due diligence when it comes to his articles on cards, spend and point valuation.
For someone that is consistently redeeming through the UR portal, the CSR card will work for a lower and less subjective valuation of 1.5 since that is what the points can be redeemed for in the UR portal. The math requires no taking into account on what the user does when it comes to annual spend. Of course the bank wouldn't like that type of math as they want people putting spend on the card that creates a higher value for those points. Let's not forget, they are losing money on this card. When it comes to spend on the CSR, I have it as a back up in case a merchant doesn't take my Amex Rose Gold for dining which is rare for us. It is the card I use to pay for tolls on my SunPass account and it is the card I will use to pay taxes on award flights. This spend doesn't come anywhere near $7,750. I'd say I spend about $1500 in tolls per year. Last year I did not put any dining spend on the card. It was tolls and a few taxes here and there on award flights. I kicked off this year and used the $300 travel credit to offset my DVC dues. So, according to that TPG article, this card is not for me and I'd be better off with a CSP or CIP.
Yeah, that math doesn't work for me. The other way to math whether a CSR is better than a CSP/CIP is to take into account 3 things. One, will the user spend $300 whether or not they have the card in a travel category that year. Between tolls and DVC dues the answer for me is always yes. Two, how much does the user redeem via the UR travel portal by purchasing travel each year. When I've layed out the math before, I've always assumed the user is wavering between a CSP/CIP or CSR. Today I'm going to go a step further and include no fee cards that people are happy to use at 1 cpp.
For the newbies: Understand that I carry a quadfecta of UR family cards and so does PlanePrincess (my DH). We maximize the bonus categories on each of our cards to increase our UR earning each year. Ink+ (no longer available) but is comparable to the CIC and earns 5x on cable, internet and phone as well as office supply stores which sell things like GCs. CF has the quarterly 5x categories. CFU for unbonused categories when a merchant doesn't take my Amex BBP and the CSR to make my points all worth 1.5 cpp via the UR portal.
Current CSR is $550 AF with a $300 travel credit I am spending anyway = $250. Difference between $250 CSR - $95 CIP/CSP = $155
Current CSR is $550 AF with a $300 travel credit I am spending anyway = $250. Difference between $250 CSR - $0 CF/CFU/CIU/CIC = $250
If the user is deciding between a CSR and the other options, and they spend $300 per year in a travel related category, tolls, hotels, car rental, DVC dues etc. They need to figure out their opportunity cost.
I will use my most recent example of a UR redemption that I posted a few days ago.
We booked 4 nights at Ashford Castle in Ireland with UR points for later this year. The price of the hotel was $4,117. We "paid" 274,477 UR points through the UR portal from the CSR account.
If I only had a CSP/CIP I would have had to pay 329,372 UR points. That's a difference of 54,895 points. CSP/CIP value of $686 at 1.25. So that would have cost me a further CSR value of $823 in points or a CF/CFU/CIU/CIC value of $2,333 if that is what I held.
For this one redemption alone saving $155 per year actually costs me $686 in points.
Saving $250 per year with a no fee card costs me $2,333 in points.
In both cases I still come out ahead with a CSR even if I don't spend $300 in a travel category for this particular redemption.
So, what's the break even for someone who consistently redeems and "pays" for travel via the UR portal when deciding between between the CSR and the CSP/CIP? Around $1,000 per year in redemption. Let's say you are going to redeem a $500 RT flight for a party of 2 or $250 for a party of 4. That's $1000. If you hold a CSP or CIP that should cost you 80,000 UR points. If you hold a CSR those flights would cost you 66,666 points. That is a difference of 13,334 points which is equivalent to $166 in the CSP/CIP UR portal. So holding the CIP/CSP over the CSR just cost you $166 in points. If someone is redeeming $1,000 or more via the UR portal each year, then they may be looking at a small loss. If they are redeeming more than that, then they may be looking at a much greater loss.
Morals of my long story: Do the math that works for you and your specific needs. Don't rely on those who have the bank's best interests in mind and not yours to do that math. Don't let a high AF cause a knee jerk reaction. Do the math to find out what saving that AF is actually costing you. Do this for every card.
@reliev - I gather from some of your posts you are an experienced travel hacker/churner so please don't think this was directed at you specifically. It's not. I'm sure you know all of this. I'm using your post as a diving board for my thoughts on UR value in light of the AF increase on the CSR. Newbies and lurkers may wish to consider the value of building their own trifecta or quadfecta of UR earning cards. They may also wish to consider if they plan to do mostly point transfers or pay with points so they know which math to use when it comes to picking their cards.
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StephPlum
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2011
Books:
Read GoT, didn't watch the show (no cable);
Read all the HP books several times. They came out when DD was in 5th grade and we jump on board. I remember waiting for the next book to get released and reading non-stop once it came out. Have seen all the movies. Hate, hate it when they change something from the book. My personal worst is when they are getting the prophecies and they make it look like Harry dropped it by accident vs smashing. Very different meaning.
I've also been through Divergent and Hunger Games. Didn't watch the movies though.
Twilight - started the first book and maybe made it through the first chapter but doubt it. I found that writing to be awful. Side note - if you visit Olympic NP and like Twilight, visit Forks the town that the author based Twilight on. They have movie memorabilia (trucks) and Twilight tours (we skipped this).
No one has mentioned (I don't think), but Lord of the Rings predate all of these and it worth a read if you haven't done that yet.
Read GoT, didn't watch the show (no cable);
Read all the HP books several times. They came out when DD was in 5th grade and we jump on board. I remember waiting for the next book to get released and reading non-stop once it came out. Have seen all the movies. Hate, hate it when they change something from the book. My personal worst is when they are getting the prophecies and they make it look like Harry dropped it by accident vs smashing. Very different meaning.
I've also been through Divergent and Hunger Games. Didn't watch the movies though.
Twilight - started the first book and maybe made it through the first chapter but doubt it. I found that writing to be awful. Side note - if you visit Olympic NP and like Twilight, visit Forks the town that the author based Twilight on. They have movie memorabilia (trucks) and Twilight tours (we skipped this).
No one has mentioned (I don't think), but Lord of the Rings predate all of these and it worth a read if you haven't done that yet.
MKTokyo
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2018
Yes, please join us! I like to see what everyone is reading
I'm reading The Angel of Darkness to get ready for S2 of The Alienist, and that is DARK, but after GoT nothing can hurt me
I did not like Twilight or Divergent. I loved the Maze Runner books but hated the movies. And, of course I love LotR
When we went to the UK last year I just had to seek out the pub in Oxford where Tolkien & C.S. Lewis used to hang out... I was in book nerd heaven.
StephPlum
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2011
Thanks for reposting this. I do think all the comparisons out there are based on what you spend on the card vs redemptions. I rarely put spend on my CSR (will for the travel credit and dining if not working on a MSR). But I make out on the redemptions using the 1.5x vs a 1.25x. A lot of my redemptions would not be possible through transfers (car rentals, non-chain hotels, experiences). I will be keeping my CSR with the $550 AF.While that is certainly true, the math only works for someone who is mostly transferring their miles to airlines and hotels and subjectively values their points at 2 cents. Sadly, this can lead someone to believe the card is not right for them if they don't spend that amount in dining and or travel each year. This line of thinking favors the bank and not the card holder. Let's not forget who TPG is in bed with, both literally and figuratively speaking as it were. Those types of articles, and for many other reasons are why I will only use TPG as a baseline for travel hacking a trip, which to be fair, is quite valuable information. Whatever I'm thinking of doing, he has likley done it and blogged about how he did it. After all, he is the one that put the Al Maha on my radar. So, for as much as most of the travel hacking community derides him as a shill for the banks, I think it is fair and just to give credit where credit is due. No pun intended. Nevertheless, we should still do our due diligence when it comes to his articles on cards, spend and point valuation.
For someone that is consistently redeeming through the UR portal, the CSR card will work for a lower and less subjective valuation of 1.5 since that is what the points can be redeemed for in the UR portal. The math requires no taking into account on what the user does when it comes to annual spend. Of course the bank wouldn't like that type of math as they want people putting spend on the card that creates a higher value for those points. Let's not forget, they are losing money on this card. When it comes to spend on the CSR, I have it as a back up in case a merchant doesn't take my Amex Rose Gold for dining which is rare for us. It is the card I use to pay for tolls on my SunPass account and it is the card I will use to pay taxes on award flights. This spend doesn't come anywhere near $7,750. I'd say I spend about $1500 in tolls per year. Last year I did not put any dining spend on the card. It was tolls and a few taxes here and there on award flights. I kicked off this year and used the $300 travel credit to offset my DVC dues. So, according to that TPG article, this card is not for me and I'd be better off with a CSP or CIP.
Yeah, that math doesn't work for me. The other way to math whether a CSR is better than a CSP/CIP is to take into account 3 things. One, will the user spend $300 whether or not they have the card in a travel category that year. Between tolls and DVC dues the answer for me is always yes. Two, how much does the user redeem via the UR travel portal by purchasing travel each year. When I've layed out the math before, I've always assumed the user is wavering between a CSP/CIP or CSR. Today I'm going to go a step further and include no fee cards that people are happy to use at 1 cpp.
For the newbies: Understand that I carry a quadfecta of UR family cards and so does PlanePrincess (my DH). We maximize the bonus categories on each of our cards to increase our UR earning each year. Ink+ (no longer available) but is comparable to the CIC and earn 5x on cable, internet and phone as well as office supply stores which sell things like GCs. CF has the quarterly 5x categories. CFU for unbonused categories when a merchant doesn't take my Amex BBP and the CSR to make my points all worth 1.5 cpp via the UR portal.
Current CSR is $550 AF with a $300 travel credit I am spending anyway = $250. Difference between $250 CSR - $95 CIP/CSP = $155
Current CSR is $550 AF with a $300 travel credit I am spending anyway = $250. Difference between $250 CSR - $0 CF/CFU/CIU/CIC = $250
If the user is deciding between a CSR and the other options, and they spend $300 per year in a travel related category, tolls, hotels, car rental, DVC dues etc. They need to figure out their opportunity cost.
I will use my most recent example of a UR redemption that I posted a few days ago.
We booked 4 nights at Ashford Castle in Ireland with UR points for later this year. The price of the hotel was $4,117. We "paid" 274,477 UR points through the UR portal from the CSR account.
If I only had a CSP/CIP I would have had to pay 329,372 UR points. That's a difference of 54,895 points. CSP/CIP value of $686 at 1.25. So that would have cost me a further CSR value of $823 in points or a CF/CFU/CIU/CIC value of $2,333 if that is what I held.
For this one redemption alone saving $155 per year actually costs me $686 in points.
Saving $250 per year costs me $2,333 in points.
In both cases I still come out ahead with a CSR even if I don't spend $300 in a travel category for this particular redemption.
So, what's the break even for someone who consistently redeems and "pays" for travel via the UR portal when deciding between between the CSR and the CSP/CIP? Around $1,000 per year in redemption. Let's say you are going to redeem a $500 RT flight for a party of 2 or $250 for a party of 4. That's $1000. If you hold a CSP or CIP that should cost you 80,000 UR points. If you hold a CSR those flights would cost you 66,666 points. That is a difference of 13,334 points which is equivalent to $166 in the CSP/CIP UR portal. So holding the CIP/CSP over the CSR just cost you $166 in points. If someone is redeeming $1,000 or more via the UR portal each year, then they may be looking at a small loss. If they are redeeming more than that, then they may be looking at a much greater loss.
Morals of my long story: Do the math that works for you and your specific needs. Don't rely on those who have the bank's best interests in mind and not yours to do that math. Don't let a high AF casue a knee jerk reaction. Do the math to find out what saving that AF is actually costing you. Do this for every card.
Best line worth repeating Do the math that works for you and your specific needs on all your cards.
Lain
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2014
Oh hey there again!
How is planning for Japan in November 2020 going? I don't think I've see you around since last July. Did you sign up for reddit? Because that's where we're keeping our more sensitive and higher level discussions about earning credit card points.
You really, really, really need to follow along because aside from all our off topic chatter (we're all friends here), the credit card space does change quickly and often unexpectedly. And if you haven't already, you really should sign up for DISchurners on reddit. I think it's time to step off the sidelines and ask questions, tell us what you're planning or doing, what credit cards you're interested in or signed up for.
The difficulty with recommending you get the Amex Hilton Surpass card now is Amex has a once per lifetime bonus policy. That is, generally, you get one shot at a card product for the purposes of a signup bonus. Almost all of Amex's cardmember agreements include the term that a signup or welcome bonus is not available if you have or have had this card product before. So this creates an incentive for anyone considering a new Amex card to sign up only for the highest and best signup bonus for that card because you may never get another shot at getting a big bonus from that card.
From the time you joined us last July until now, you missed out on the Surpass offering a signup bonus of 130,000 Hilton points + a Free Weekend Night Certificate that could have been used for a free Friday, Saturday, or Sunday night at any Hilton property around the world; you also missed out on another signup bonus offering 150,000 Hilton points + a $100 statement credit; and you may have missed out on a simple elevated offer of 150,000 Hilton points (may still be available in incognito mode) instead of the 130,000 Hilton points you're seeing right now. I don’t mean to rub it in; the sense of FOMO is very real in this hobby and something a lot of us experience. But that's the problem if you apply for the 130,000 Hilton points offer now. You see that the Surpass has come out with much higher and better welcome offers and probably will again, but you don't know when and you're wanting to apply for this card now. If you go for the 130,000 Hilton points offer, you won't be eligible for a higher or better offer on the Surpass if it comes along. Amex won't match a subsequent offer, and you can't close and reapply for the card because you will "have had" the same card product under Amex's lifetime restriction on welcome bonuses (in the latter instance, you'll also piss off Amex, risk clawback of any bonus you've earned, and probably end up on their naughty list).
The Surpass is a solid card if you're planning to earn rewards to stay at a Hilton. As you know, it comes with complimentary Gold elite status, which gets you free breakfast. It earns 12x Hilton points on spend directly with Hilton, but we try to avoid paying for hotel rooms here; it earns 6x Hilton points at restaurants, supermarkets, and gas stations, which can be a big earner if your supermarket often runs deals on gift and prepaid cards; and 3x Hilton points on everything else. The benefit I like most about the Surpass card is you can earn one of those Free Weekend Night Certificate after you put $15,000 of spend on the card in a calendar year. (Of course, if you had gotten in on the 130,000 Hilton points + a Free Weekend Night Certificate offer, you could've gotten one FWNC free and another after spending $15k.)
Have you also considered the Hilton Aspire card? It currently has a 150,000 Hilton points signup bonus, and comes with complimentary Diamond status. Diamond status will get you much better perks than Gold. It does come with a $450 annual fee, which is offset by a $200/calendar year airline fee credit, a $250 resort credit, and a Free Weekend Night Certificate shortly after card opening and after every card anniversary. Since you're planning a trip to Japan, and perhaps visiting Tokyo Disneyland, one of the things we've discussed on reddit is, with Diamond status, you can ask to charge park tickets to your room and use the resort credit to cover that charge.
The tricky thing about Amex is they are not an issuer you want to just hit for bonuses and then "sockdrawer" or not spend on their cards after you've gotten the bonus. Amex has been very aggressive with using data analytics to root out suspected "gamers" or "churners," the kind of customers who sign up for one of their cards, spend on it to meet the minimum spending requirement to get the bonus, then stop spending on their cards afterwards until it's time to cancel the card a year later. This will land you on their naughty list, and the next time you apply for another Amex card you'll probably see a pop up warning you that based on your history with Amex cards, you're ineligible for the bonus even if they approve you for another card. So when applying for an Amex card, don't just be attracted by the signup bonus. You should look at the card's benefits and its earning structure (what bonus multiple do you get for certain kinds of spend), and think carefully whether those benefits and spending bonuses fit your needs and in your wallet so you continue to use the card and keep Amex happy.
I don't recall if you've answered @SouthFayetteFan's questionnaire on page 1 so we can give better advice. One more thing hesitation with recommending the Surpass and/or Aspire cards is they are personal credit cards that will add to your "5/24" count if you have any plans to apply for Chase cards. Chase's cards have some of the most lucrative signup bonuses, but in order to be eligible for any of them you need to be under 5/24 -- in other words, Chase has to see when they pull your credit report that you've open less than 5 credit cards from any issuer in the past 24 months. So generally, it makes sense to get your Chase cards before opening up cards from other issuers like Amex, which may add to your "5/24" count.
One more thing, if you have a Player 2 (e.g., DH) who has Amex cards, he may be able to "support" you to the Hilton Surpass. Then, P2 can earn the support points and you can earn the signup bonus. If you don't have a P2 who can "support" you or P2 doesn't have the right cards to do so, I'd encourage you to sign up for DISchurners and use one of the support links there if it pulls up the same or better welcome offer. (This applies to any new card you apply for that you don't have a support link for!) Amex's Hilton support links do not always offer the same or better as the public or incognito offers, so obviously don't use someone else's link if it generates a worse offer. You might still use P2's link if it generates a worse offer, because at least in that case you're looking at the net of the support and signup bonus points. But if a DISchurner's link pulls up the same as or a better offer than the public or incognito offers, then pay it forward and help this community by using their link. I've now spent over 30 minutes typing this up, but I have no Amex links up so I have no skin in this. Others on this thread spend just as much or more of their time dispensing fantastic advice and experience that makes this community what it is. We always try to pay it forward and support each other when we can.
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wed100105
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2010
@LovesTimone you've been given great advice from a couple of other posters. I just wanted to say that we love our HHonor Surpass cards and felt we did get our money's worth out of them. For our family, the gold free breakfast really was "worth" it. Since then we've upgraded to the HHonors Aspire. I don't know if we'll keep them or downgrade (if that's an option), but we have made the most out of them. Happy spending and saving!
Happy spending and saving!
miztressuz
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2011
Oh, and since you say you normally stay at Hilton's, have you mathed out the Aspire card? I know the AF is high but if you normally stay at Hilton's the increased status (Diamond) and earn rates in addition to the annual FNC and all the credits can make that card better than the mid range ones.
Haley R
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2017
Apparently I’m Hufflepuff and Abnegation.
calypso726
Escaping reality one Disney vacation at a time
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2006
Whew! Finally caught up.
Read the HP books numerous times and have listened to the books numerous times. Narrator, Jim Dale is awesome! The movies are meh and do no justice t the books.
Depending on the quiz I come up as Gryffindor or Ravenclaw. If we go with Pottermore, I'm a Ravenclaw so that's what I stick to.
Listened to GoT and loved the series for the most part. I highly doubt that GRRM will ever finish the series which is really sad.
D&D absolutely ruined a great show and story!
Read the HP books numerous times and have listened to the books numerous times. Narrator, Jim Dale is awesome! The movies are meh and do no justice t the books.
Depending on the quiz I come up as Gryffindor or Ravenclaw. If we go with Pottermore, I'm a Ravenclaw so that's what I stick to.
Listened to GoT and loved the series for the most part. I highly doubt that GRRM will ever finish the series which is really sad.
D&D absolutely ruined a great show and story!
mechteach1
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2019
Did you just change your avatar, or have I been oblivious?
Alexle2007
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2013
Haley R
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2017
Idk if anyone can use it but the dvc rental store has a confirmed reservation for Saratoga 1/31-2/1 for $180 and 1/30-2/1 for $345. I wish we could take advantage of these since we’ve never stayed there but Dh doesn’t have that Friday off (he gets every other Friday off).
Haley R
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2017
Here are some pictures from our day yesterday at Blue Springs State Park and Leu Gardens. I was underwhelmed by the manatees but LOVED Leu Gardens! I’m not much of a plant/flower person but it was so pretty.
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Ok, this year I vow to read Lord of the Rings. Don’t know why I haven’t; people have been telling me I should for years. I read all the HP and Game of Thrones books, but never saw GoT because I don’t have tv.
Although the storyline is kind of meh, I’d recommend people go see Harry Potter and the Cursed Child when in nyc purely for the special effects. Truly amazing. I bought cheap $40 per part tickets in the balcony, and they were fine. Just don’t get the first few rows of the side balcony, because there are iron railings that may block your view. A few rows back is actually better.
Off to see what house I’m in.
ETA: Ravenclaw
Although the storyline is kind of meh, I’d recommend people go see Harry Potter and the Cursed Child when in nyc purely for the special effects. Truly amazing. I bought cheap $40 per part tickets in the balcony, and they were fine. Just don’t get the first few rows of the side balcony, because there are iron railings that may block your view. A few rows back is actually better.
Off to see what house I’m in.
ETA: Ravenclaw
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Alexle2007
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2013
Can you actually play the Chess set? DS would love that. He went to chess camp for a couple of years.
Alexle2007
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2013
Let me know if you see Valentine’s weekend or 3/12-15. We are still deciding where to stay for those trips.
wendow
We create happiness.
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2012
Where do you find these last minute reservations? I still need a room for feb 1-3 (have 3-5 at ASMo).
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