Must read for parents- What if I am accidentally raising a bully?

[Wendy31]

There are only 4 boys allowed to be in the room so the boy least liked by the group was the boy who was picked to not be in the room. There was no choice but to pick someone to be excluded.

I don't have a problem leaving 1 girl, or boy out if the birthday child and their close friends don't get along. And yes, my child has been excluded from birthday parties when most of his friends have been invited. It happens, and we as parents need to teach our children that they aren't always going to be included. That is just as much an important lesson as raising them not to be bullies.

Did the other boy still go on the trip & were there other boys in his room - just not the 4 that are originally in his group? Or was the boy in a room by himself?

If he was in a room w/ other boys, I sort of understand. Only 4 boys to a room - that's just the way it is. But, if he ended up not going or in a room by himself, that's sad. Do you think the mother of the boy that didn't fit in the room had to say to her son, "Well, honey, you're the least liked, so that's why there's no room for you in your friends' room"? I mean, how do you explain that? "Tough luck, kid. Maybe you'll move up the friend chain & be the 4th most liked next year."

Of course not everyone is going to be included w/ everything. And that's fine. That's life. I understand that, & we're teaching our kids that as well.

But how hurtful it must be to a child to realize he/she was the only one NOT invited to a party or something similar.

I think I must be too tenderhearted because I can't imagine leaving one child out. I wouldn't want it to happen to my children, & I'm sad to think about it happening to another child.

(If the one child is mean or a bully, that's different! Our actions & how we treat others have consequences.)

I think, just because life can be cruel, it doesn't mean we harden our hearts & stop being kind & thinking of others & their feelings.

 

[Mkrop]

I do agree that at school some things can't really be a choice, but as a parent I can make the decision to not force my kids to have to be friends with anyone they don't want to be.

Since you mentioned upthread that you advocated for the pain in the neck kid to be included. When you teach "be kind" and include everyone do you also teach "don't be a pain in the neck" so that others will want to include you?

Numerous, countless, over and over...he is a work in progress I have told him many times that his behavior is not acceptable and that people are not going to want to play if he cant learn to be nice and follow the rules. He has made a lot of progress in the last 2 years but he still has his moments.

A came to me and told me he was being left out of the basketball game (it was a knockout shooting game). I asked him why he thought he was being excluded. He said I dont know. I said well lets find out. We walked over to the game. I asked why is A being excluded. I was told by a few of them that A wasnt following the rules that had been established in the beg of the game and was trying to take over. I looked at A and I asked him if that was true. He started to give me some long explanation. I said yes or no. He said yes. I explained to him that is the problem and no one wants anyone coming in taking over, if he was willing to follow the rules then maybe they would let him play. He said he would. I asked the group, I got some whines and more complaining. I told them that we need to give people a chance and he needs to be included now. They said fine (some begrudgingly) and I left them alone. I swung back around to everyone laughing and having what seemed to be a good time. I asked if everyone was good and I got a resounding yes. I asked if A was following the rules and I got a resounding yes. He was smiling, they were smiling. I let them all be. The next day he chose imaginary ninja tag instead of basketball and he seemed fine there.

Now next week may be a different story altogether...like I said a work in progress!

 

[kimblebee]

Does everyone here know three facts about every single person they work with, friends or not? If not, you'd better get on it

 

[Mkrop]

Thank you for doing this. I wish that every school had someone with your heart to help when needed.

Thanks I dont think I am doing anything special, been on the receiving end of being excluded( even as adult), seen it happen to my kids, and see the kids who are heartbroken when it happens to them. I cant just ignore it, maybe some parents dont like that but I am doing what I think is common sense and I would want someone to advocate for me or my kids. So far it seems to be working, the kids are not perfect (nor am I) but everyday is a new day to try to be kind. There are days when I cant "fix" things and I try and have that kid take a moment and sit on the bench and just chill. That seems to help as well.

 

[Hikergirl]

The trip hasn't happened yet, and its maybe half of the 7th grade so that boy will be in a room with other kids. I have no idea if he picked who he was going to be with or if he was put on the list and assigned a room.

The thing is there may be legitimate reasons to not invite that one person, not just being mean or a bully. Everyone seems to focus on how hurtful it would be, or how its mean to exclude. I know kids whose behavior makes them very difficult to get along with, and I would't put their feelings above my own child's when it comes to their own birthday party.

 

[Mkrop]

Does everyone here know three facts about every single person they work with, friends or not? If not, you'd better get on it

That was just the tool that mom used at that time. It is not about knowing the facts, it is about not just discounting a person. Maybe if you did get to know them better they would turn out to be a nice friend to have, or maybe just another person you know in the world. That was what I got out of the article

 

[Wendy31]

Does everyone here know three facts about every single person they work with, friends or not? If not, you'd better get on it

When I worked at a college, no, I didn't know 3 facts about every single employee. However, I did know 3 facts about those w/ whom I came in contact on a regular basis. The guy who brought in our mail was named Tommy. He had a daughter. (It's been years, so I can't remember her name.) He liked fishing. And he had a bad knee.

When I worked at a small school, yes, I knew at least 3 facts about everyone who worked there.

And the point was not "you have to know 3 facts about every person." The point was to teach her daughter to at least take the time to give the other girl a chance - to not deliberately shun or ignore the other girl, to be inclusive rather than exclusive.

 

[ronandannette]

Does everyone here know three facts about every single person they work with, friends or not? If not, you'd better get on it

LOL - I even know 3 facts about YOU...

• Lives in Winnipeg
• Relatively newly-wed
• Doesn't love her DH's dog

 

[VandVsmama]

in my opinion, what the author was able to teach her child was a very valuable lesson - don't judge a book by its cover. In the personal example I mentioned earlier, I used to be in the camp of "Other Mom is crazy." Yet once I got to know her even a little bit underneath the surface, learned that she was a pretty cool person. On religious & political topics, she and I are about as different as night & day, but we are good friends regardless.

Same thing with a former coworker...initially, I thought he was annoyind and rude. But at work, you have to work with all sorts of people and you don't get to pick and choose. So I got to know him a little better and learned that he's a really great guy and we have remained friends since he left the company to pursue another job elsewhere.

There are some lessons in life that you can lecture your kids about until the cows come home, but they won't really "get it" until they have to go through it and the situation with the author's daughter was one of those moments. I mean, you do have to give some kudos to the parent for at least trying to figure out what was REALLY going on instead of blowing it off and ignoring it...and likely having your kid perpetuate the Mean Girl behavior at school.

Compassion and acceptance are important lessons for kids to learn but sometimes they have to learn those lessons in a slightly different way.

 

[Hikergirl]

Numerous, countless, over and over...he is a work in progress I have told him many times that his behavior is not acceptable and that people are not going to want to play if he cant learn to be nice and follow the rules. He has made a lot of progress in the last 2 years but he still has his moments.

A came to me and told me he was being left out of the basketball game (it was a knockout shooting game). I asked him why he thought he was being excluded. He said I dont know. I said well lets find out. We walked over to the game. I asked why is A being excluded. I was told by a few of them that A wasnt following the rules that had been established in the beg of the game and was trying to take over. I looked at A and I asked him if that was true. He started to give me some long explanation. I said yes or no. He said yes. I explained to him that is the problem and no one wants anyone coming in taking over, if he was willing to follow the rules then maybe they would let him play. He said he would. I asked the group, I got some whines and more complaining. I told them that we need to give people a chance and he needs to be included now. They said fine (some begrudgingly) and I left them alone. I swung back around to everyone laughing and having what seemed to be a good time. I asked if everyone was good and I got a resounding yes. I asked if A was following the rules and I got a resounding yes. He was smiling, they were smiling. I let them all be. The next day he chose imaginary ninja tag instead of basketball and he seemed fine there.

Now next week may be a different story altogether...like I said a work in progress!

Thanks for answering. I think what you are doing is great, and I do think that in a school setting where there is a game during recess that all kids should be included. I don't see this as forcing a friendship, and I think its very different for a parent to involve themselves and force their child to be friends with someone.

 

[Mkrop]

The trip hasn't happened yet, and its maybe half of the 7th grade so that boy will be in a room with other kids. I have no idea if he picked who he was going to be with or if he was put on the list and assigned a room.

The thing is there may be legitimate reasons to not invite that one person, not just being mean or a bully. Everyone seems to focus on how hurtful it would be, or how its mean to exclude. I know kids whose behavior makes them very difficult to get along with, and I would't put their feelings above my own child's when it comes to their own birthday party.

Just me but I NEVER could exclude just one kid. Now in DS13's class there are two I would like to exclude bc even though DS is nice they are just plain bullies plain and simple and seem to like to target DS but even then if I was inviting the whole class or all the boys I would not exclude them I would just keep an eye on them.

And I didnt feel like the mom in the article was forcing a friendship but using a tool so that her daughter could get to actually know the girl.

 

[Hikergirl]

Just me but I NEVER could exclude just one kid. Now in DS13's class there are two I would like to exclude bc even though DS is nice they are just plain bullies plain and simple and seem to like to target DS but even then if I was inviting the whole class or all the boys I would not exclude them I would just keep an eye on them.

And I didnt feel like the mom in the article was forcing a friendship but using a tool so that her daughter could get to actually know the girl.

I've done it and my ds did struggle with the decision, he felt bad but he was stressing out about having the kid at his party. I told him it was okay to not invite the kid. I felt his reasons were valid, it wasn't just a case of "I don't like him".
I didn't want my kid to be stressed and miserable at his own party, and I also didn't want my child to think I was putting someone else's feelings above his own. That isn't to say there aren't situations where you can and should think of others first, I just didn't think this was one of them.

ETA, I just wanted to say it wasn't just one kid out of the whole class. There were other that weren't invited, this kid considered my ds a good friend, but my ds felt very differently.

 

[nugov2]

Just me but I NEVER could exclude just one kid. Now in DS13's class there are two I would like to exclude bc even though DS is nice they are just plain bullies plain and simple and seem to like to target DS but even then if I was inviting the whole class or all the boys I would not exclude them I would just keep an eye on them.

And I didnt feel like the mom in the article was forcing a friendship but using a tool so that her daughter could get to actually know the girl.

Me too and why I end up with every member of my dd's soccer team either here hanging out or sleeping here. Once more than one is invited over, im always like well ask everyone. If my kids are outside playing with neighbors I always tell them hey don't forget to see if so and so is around too, but I never, ever say go knock on their door or you will come inside, be grounded or not taken to school and that is what IMO changed what the mom did. Encouraging her dd to not judge a book by its cover is great, but when you force the issue with threats and punishments it is less impactful. I just don't think kindness can be instilled in our kids by punishing them or threatening to.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I think the mom in the story was passionate about it because she'd experienced exclusion before and she understood how difficult it was for the excludee. I'm not going to fault a caring mom who's trying to impart what she sees as an important life lesson to her kids, so I support the mom.

Thanks for sharing the story, Asta. It reminds me of the Starfish story.

 

[suzanna1066@comcast.]

It sounds to me the woman's daughter had no reason to dislike this girl and once she did find out 3 things about her they developed a friendship. So if teaching your child a lesson about the dangers of following a pack and passing judgement on people you do not know is considered overreacting and bad parenting, I will gladly join that club.
My child does not have to be friends with or even like every single person but, while deliberately casting someone out of a group may not be bullying, it sure is cruel and I won't tolerate it.

 

[Allons-y!]

I like what the mom did. I often see this kind of behavior, and I applaud any parent who tries to curb it instead of either ignoring or, sadly, encouraging it. I know a few too many parents who have no problem with their child climbing the social ladder using other children as the rungs.

As for the group of 5 mentioned above, I believe that a kinder solution would have been for the kids to split up into 2 and 3 and fill in the other spaces in their rooms with other boys. That way one boy wouldn't have been left out.

 

[Hikergirl]

I like what the mom did. I often see this kind of behavior, and I applaud any parent who tries to curb it instead of either ignoring or, sadly, encouraging it. I know a few too many parents who have no problem with their child climbing the social ladder using other children as the rungs.

As for the group of 5 mentioned above, I believe that a kinder solution would have been for the kids to split up into 2 and 3 and fill in the other spaces in their rooms with other boys. That way one boy wouldn't have been left out.

None of the 4 boys wanted to room with the one boy, they have their reasons that I'm not really going to get into here. Since they are allowed by the teachers to pick their groups for the trip they did nothing unkind, they each picked the 3 boys they wanted to room with. If the teachers wanted things done so that nobody had hurt feelings they would just assign room mates. They don't probably because they understand that being excluded is part of life, and sometimes its going to happen to you.

 

[Allons-y!]

Well, you went from:

Well of course there are 5 boys in the group, so someone has to be excluded. My ds and 3 of his friends decided that they would room together because they just didn't get along with the 5th boy as well as they did with eachother so he was left out.

to:

None of the 4 boys wanted to room with the one boy, they have their reasons that I'm not really going to get into here.

The article in the OP was about a child who was left out for no reason. If there really is a legitimate reason for your son and his friends to leave a group member out, then what you initially posted wasn't really relevant, since the two situations are apples and oranges. That would explain my confusion, since your first post said that the 4 boys simply like each other better than the 5th boy. You added in the bit about there being an actual reason later after you were questioned.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

 

[DawnM]

None of the 4 boys wanted to room with the one boy, they have their reasons that I'm not really going to get into here. Since they are allowed by the teachers to pick their groups for the trip they did nothing unkind, they each picked the 3 boys they wanted to room with. If the teachers wanted things done so that nobody had hurt feelings they would just assign room mates. They don't probably because they understand that being excluded is part of life, and sometimes its going to happen to you.

But for some it happens all the time. I am sad for those who may not fit in socially, who struggle to adapt to social norms or ideas. Those are often the ones who grow up and do great things, but the kid years are hard on them.

I was not this kid, but I see these kids all the time.

They know they won't be included this time. Or the next. Or the next.

I try to help those kids find "each other" so that they do have friends to spend time with. it doesn't always work, but I try.