People interested in Poly2: are you hoping for new association or same?

[Morganjacar]

This piece is what I think is causing some confusion.

This Tower being built at to the Poly and the access guests will have for what is there now is not depending on how DVD classifies if.

We already know it’s being built as part of Poly resort as that is how it’s announced. That means those guests will have access to everything there based on what has been decided so far.

The difference in associations impacts only booking windows, MFs and potential resale restrictions for owners contracts.

So it can be a new association for DVC purposes but still be part of the property and share everything else.

If they want to limit all Poly tower guests from the use of the current pools, then would need to change course and no longer be building this as part of the Poly at all.

It would then be a brand new resort with a new name and be a 4th location on Seven seas. If that happens, then it ensures a new association.

But, they can keep it associated with the Poly resort and not have it filled into the current PVB.

We could very well end up with two DVC resorts at the Poly just like we do at WL with CCV and BRV.

 

[Morganjacar]

I'd like to see a DVD exec try to get a spot at the volcano pool at 1 pm on a Saturday and let us know how this is going to work

 

[Sandisw]

I'd like to see a DVD exec try to get a spot at the volcano pool at 1 pm on a Saturday and let us know how this is going to work

I think people being concerned about the pool have a valid concern and even if this wasn’t going to be DVC at all, it would cause the same issues.

You are increasing the number of guests at the Poly resort and no matter what is decided for DVC condo associations, that doesn’t change

All I can think of is that they believe the addition of the infinity pool is enough to compensate for more guests.

I mean, I think the BLT pool they built was too small and finding a spot there is crazy hard in the summer.

 

[Prince John Robin Hood]

The pool was the first thing I thought of when I heard the announcement. It gets too busy as it is and will be worse now. Maybe they feel that it won't impact guest satisfaction much?

 

[Sandisw]

The pool was the first thing I thought of when I heard the announcement. It gets too busy as it is and will be worse now. Maybe they feel that it won't impact guest satisfaction much?

Who knows? I do know that, while I have not been to the Volcano pool for several years, every other resort I’ve been at has the same issue with not enough space at the feature pools.

At least they are adding a new one. Can you imagine if they weren’t doing that???

 

[Morganjacar]

Who knows? I do know that, while I have not been to the Volcano pool for several years, every other resort I’ve been at has the same issue with not enough space at the feature pools.

At least they are adding a new one. Can you imagine if they weren’t doing that???

I guess my point is they are going to change the vibe of what we bought into. Which is their right to do. However, least they can do is allow us original owners the opportunity to have home court advantage at the resort that is changing the vibe of what we originally bought.

 

[Lorana]

Sorry, changing my vote now: I think it should/will be the same association.

1. Mainly because this could allow them to fix the bungalow glut gradually over the years after the resort goes on sale by slightly raising the other room type costs. The new Poly2 buyers might be unhappy with that if they bought mostly to book in the new tower, but making the bungalows more attractive would occur to the overall benefit of the membership everywhere (or at least across WDW).

Okay, I keep saying I won't reopen this can of worms, but I feel I really need to, because this is important for owners to keep an eye on and raise holy hell if it happens.

DVC cannot legally do what you are proposing. The POS only allows to make point cost adjustments within units, and the total points for a given year for each unit must remain the same - this is per the POS, your contract, and the condo association documents, due to the fact that points represent the % ownership of a given unit and as the POS states that adjustments are within units.

Bungalows exist within their own units. Thus, DVC cannot raise the points per night of other room types in order to offset the point cost of bungalows. They can only raise or lower the points of the bungalows themselves throughout the year.

Yes, DVC, *did* do this with SSR when it came to the cost of Treehouse Villas, but just because they got away with it because not enough owners called them out/pushed back on, doesn't mean it is actually allowed per the terms of the POS.

Poly owners, if this happens, especially when PVB2 comes out, raise hell. They can't do this.
Likewise, VGF owners, don't let them do this with the new studios, either. Those studios are in their own units, just as the original VGF1 ones are in separate units from them. They therefore cannot lower the Resort Studios to raise Deluxe Studios, or vice-versa.

 

[Sandisw]

I guess my point is they are going to change the vibe of what we bought into. Which is their right to do. However, least they can do is allow us original owners the opportunity to have home court advantage at the resort that is changing the vibe of what we originally bought.

I understand that thought but to play devils advocate, the pool is not a DVC pool so no guests, cash or DVC, would has home court advantage to it.

It certainly does make you realize that Disney can change things up at any time which impacts the feel of a resort,

Like I shared, this could have been a new WDW hotel tower, not associated with DVC at all, and it’s impact on all guests will be the same.

The end result is that the Poly resort complex will be more crowded once this is done.

 

[aka Charles]

I hope we can all agree on the following:
1. The Volcano Pool is a great and much-loved pool.
2. It will always be in high demand by any and all guests that have access to it.
3. It would greatly benefit from a major renovation and expansion.

The question is, how does Disney do a major expansion, that will require the pool to be closed for months, without making all the Poly guests angry?

The answer? Poly2, and its Polyflections Pool. (Yes, that should be its name. lol)

Not that I want this to happen, but I believe there is a good chance that as soon as they get the Poly2 pool built, they will open it up to all Poly guests.
Then they will close down the Volcano Pool, move the construction equipment over, and do a very ambitious renovation and expansion.
If they do this, it will be painful for everyone, but hopefully the results will be worth it.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

It certainly does make you realize that Disney can change things up at any time which impacts the feel of a resort,

This is why I still think one of the options DVC/Disney could implement is restricting access to the Volcano pool to the Poly2 guests. Will they do that? Probably not, but it is an option. Like you said in your comment, Disney can (and has!) change things up at any time which impacts the feel of a resort.

Your point about the reasoning why Disney won't do this (Poly2 will be part of Poly, so the guests of Poly2 will have access to all the Polynesian amenities) is a very good one. I think that is a very valid point based on how things have been due up until this point...as in, Disney has never restricted anything at a resort to any subset of guests at that resort. If you believe in the principle "The best predictor of future actions is past actions", then it is HIGHLY unlikely Disney would restrict that Volcano pool so the Poly2 guests can't use it.

But that doesn't mean Disney can't restrict the Volcano pool. I am assuming Disney evaluated the benefits and potential consequences of opening the Poly2 addition. During that process of due diligence, I am assuming Disney had several discussions with the GM of the Polynesian to see how this would affect the resort. What if the GM expressed how much this would negatively impact an already stressed Volcano pool? Then Disney thinks "one solution is to make Poly2 a separate association and then build a really nice pool at Poly2 and the guests of Poly2 can only use that pool, which would keep the Poly2 addition from adding to the already crowded situation at Volcano pool".

Again, I am not saying this will happen but I think saying that it is impossible for Disney to do this is not accurate. They have shown they are willing to change the rules.

 

[Sandisw]

This is why I still think one of the options DVC/Disney could implement is restricting access to the Volcano pool to the Poly2 guests. Will they do that? Probably not, but it is an option. Like you said in your comment, Disney can (and has!) change things up at any time which impacts the feel of a resort.

Your point about the reasoning why Disney won't do this (Poly2 will be part of Poly, so the guests of Poly2 will have access to all the Polynesian amenities) is a very good one. I think that is a very valid point based on how things have been due up until this point...as in, Disney has never restricted anything at a resort to any subset of guests at that resort. If you believe in the principle "The best predictor of future actions is past actions", then it is HIGHLY unlikely Disney would restrict that Volcano pool so the Poly2 guests can't use it.

But that doesn't mean Disney can't restrict the Volcano pool. I am assuming Disney evaluated the benefits and potential consequences of opening the Poly2 addition. During that process of due diligence, I am assuming Disney had several discussions with the GM of the Polynesian to see how this would affect the resort. What if the GM expressed how much this would negatively impact an already stressed Volcano pool? Then Disney thinks "one solution is to make Poly2 a separate association and then build a really nice pool at Poly2 and the guests of Poly2 can only use that pool, which would keep the Poly2 addition from adding to the already crowded situation at Volcano pool".

Again, I am not saying this will happen but I think saying that it is impossible for Disney to do this is not accurate. They have shown they are willing to change the rules.

Of course, Disney (not DVD or DVC) can restrict who uses the pool. It is part of their hotel. That is true.

They can give the Poly tower guests access and limit PVB to just the quiet pool.

They could decide to limit the Volcano pool to only those staying on cash and leave DVC out completely.

But I thought we were discussing whether it could happen via the decision on whether it is a new or the same DVC condo association.

You don’t need a different association to limit pool access. You don’t need the same association to grant access. The association designation has nothing to do with it.

It is the terms of the POS which gives DVC owners the rights..or lack there of..to amenities at a resort and has nothing to do with how the condo association is created.

Do you really think Disney would agree to limiting cash guests who are paying them to stay at one of their hotel locations who choose the tower villas from using any of the 3 pools at that location?

No they would not and because Disney, not DVD, controls the operations and the amenities of their own hotels…we pay them our share for the use of the facilities,,.it’s their decision on how things roll out.

Why do you think those staying at BCV after the closure but before BC opened didn’t have the use of SAB? Because the DVC condo association there had no say or right to tell Disney they needed to open it as it’s part of their hotel.

As I said, this tower, regardless of what types of rooms it has changes then number of guests at the Poly and that will have a great impact on pool use. which is why they are building a 3rd pool.

So, my point regarding the pool access being based on the association is accurate

Now, they could change their minds and decide to not advertise this as part of Poly. If they do that, then those guests would be limited from using Poly pools because its no longer part of that resort.

So, that option is something that they could decide to do.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

It is the terms of the POS which gives DVC owners the rights..or lack there of..to amenities at a resort and has nothing to do with how the condo association is created.

Thank you for the detailed response. That all makes perfect sense. The part I quoted above is why I was thinking they could restrict access to those Poly2 DVC guests. If Poly2 is it’s own association, it could have a POS different from the original Poly. In that Poly2 POS is where it could restrict access to the Volcano pool. Doing it this way wouldn’t affect the original Poly DVC owners or cash guests. It would only restrict those new Poly2 DVC contracts/owners.

You know a lot more about these things and the DVC/Disney relationship than I do, and I trust your assessment of what is most likely to happen. I am just trying to think through things that could be on the table to mitigate the situation. It appears I am way off base, which is fine. It wouldn’t be the first time

 

[lovethesun12]

Just curious, why are you hoping for the same association?

So I could book at the tower at 11 months out with my current points (along with direct points I purchase to become a blue card member).

 

[Sandisw]

Thank you for the detailed response. That all makes perfect sense. The part I quoted above is why I was thinking they could restrict access to those Poly2 DVC guests. If Poly2 is it’s own association, it could have a POS different from the original Poly. In that Poly2 POS is where it could restrict access to the Volcano pool. Doing it this way wouldn’t affect the original Poly DVC owners or cash guests. It would only restrict those new Poly2 DVC contracts/owners.

You know a lot more about these things and the DVC/Disney relationship than I do, and I trust your assessment of what is most likely to happen. I am just trying to think through things that could be on the table to mitigate the situation. It appears I am way off base, which is fine. It wouldn’t be the first time

If they want to make the Poly tower the only DVC resort that is not given access to all the pools at the resort it is located, they can put it in the POS.

However, even if it is there, Disney controls access to that pool and they can decide to allow all guests to use it regardless of what the POS says. They may decide it would be too much of a hassle to monitor. That is what is key. It really doesn’t matter what DVC does..it’s up to Disney.

Plus, as long as guests have access, then owners get to share in the costs, That is why I think Disney would never agree to restrict it as expenses get split snd having Poly tower as part of Poly, it does mean that those owners now pay part of the shared expenses.

Not to mention the issues it would cause for those staying on cash who are not DVC owners.

Can you imagine? “Wait, I am staying at the Poly and I have access to everything at the Poly but not the main Poly pool? “

And restrictions wouldn’t be a one way street. If they restrict Volcano pool, they’d need to restrict the new pool. That’s a lot of restricting.

This is a unique situation that has not really occurred in which they added so many new rooms to a hotel location. Even CCV and VGF were replacement rooms

 

[Frugal Fairy Tales]

If a separate association means restricted resale points, I don’t understand why anyone would want it to be a separate association.

 

[Paul Stupin]

The more I think about the Poly2 pool, the more I think it has to be more grand and unique than they’re telling us now. The new tower is a huge investment, and sales could very well be undermined if it doesn’t have a pool with a genuine wow factor. I have zero interest in ever dealing with the massive crowds at the volcano pool. As a potential buyer I’d want Poly2 to provide a fun, genuine appealing water recreation alternative.

Everyone is just assuming that the one image of a sliver of pool in the initial renderings means the pool is going to have an infinity edge and not much else. Maybe it’s going to be way cooler than we think. One thing’s for certain. DVC has not yet shown all their Poly2 cards and or come close to divulging all the features of this new tower.

 

[Jelly563]

It seems very simple to me. The new pool will be equal to or better than the volcano pool. That will balance out the issue. Everyone knows Beachclub is popular because of SAB. Build it and they will come. A top knotch pool makes all of these issues moot. Go to volcano pool or the new & improved Jurassic pool. win / win

 

[Sandisw]

If a separate association means restricted resale points, I don’t understand why anyone would want it to be a separate association.

Because not all of us think restricted resale points is a big deal

I want it to be a new association because I don’t want to complete at 11 months with all of the current Poly owners for the 1 and 2 bedrooms.

The current Poly villas are not my favorite, but I love the tower concept so I want the best possible chance to book those rooms if I decide to buy.

If it’s rolled into one, It’s not worth buying for me.

 

[Sandisw]

The more I think about the Poly2 pool, the more I think it has to be more grand and unique than they’re telling us now. The new tower is a huge investment, and sales could very well be undermined if it doesn’t have a pool with a genuine wow factor. I have zero interest in ever dealing with the massive crowds at the volcano pool. As a potential buyer I’d want Poly2 to provide a fun, genuine appealing water recreation alternative.

Everyone is just assuming that the one image of a sliver of pool in the initial renderings means the pool is going to have an infinity edge and not much else. Maybe it’s going to be way cooler than we think. One thing’s for certain. DVC has not yet shown all their Poly2 cards and or come close to divulging all the features of this new tower.

This is a great point. We have no idea about what it will truly be in the end!

 

[Paul Stupin]

Because not all of us think restricted resale points is a big deal

I want it to be a new association because I don’t want to complete at 11 months with all of the current Poly owners for the 1 and 2 bedrooms.

The current Poly villas are not my favorite, but I love the tower concept so I want the best possible chance to book those rooms if I decide to buy.

If it’s rolled into one, It’s not worth buying for me.

Totally agreed.