Rumor: Disney Vacation Club Raising Sold-Out Resort Prices

[Soap_1984]

Even if they were to reverse them, how would they do this? All the contracts are all out there already written this way.

I got an answer to this question by asking a different question; the provision for the resale restrictions is not located in the individual contracts with buyers but within a reference agreement between DVC and whoever is administrating. If the person who answered my question could chime in they could provide more details since I cannot recall exactly who the other party was in the agreement.

Point is, they can change it without requiring anything from owners.

 

[Candlelady]

You have got to be kidding me! I paid under $15000 for 200 pts at BCV, then just under $2000 for 25 add on pts the first year. That would be over $52000 today!!!! Lol, no way would I spend that kind of money today for DVC. It's not $52000 good.

 

[anomamatt]

Even if they were to reverse them, how would they do this? All the contracts are all out there already written this way.

The documents are written with language that allows them a very clear out and ability to remove the restriction at any time.

I don't think they will do it, but they can very easily remove the restriction if they wanted.

 

[anomamatt]

I actually don't agree that it being brand new resort will cause it to sell slower so we're coming from a differing POV. It is "brand new" in other ways though that might cause it to sell slower. However the post was stating how Riviera was selling better than CCV.

I understand and I think we are making the same argument ("the comparison isn't valid"), but (I think) from opposite ends (you think the comparison is more favorable / forgiving to Riveria than I do).

I do totally agree that these comparisons are too simplistic to the point of being questionable utility to make an argument in any way. None of us that are not DVC employees (I'm not) have enough information to determine whether RVA is selling well or not. There are so many variables. DVC certainly must have projections (that we are not privy to) and we don't know whether they are falling short, exceeding, or meeting those expectations.

I do enjoy reading this kind of stuff here, but there are so many unknown knows** here. It's impossible for anyone without inside information to know how "well" RVA is selling. For all we know, the sales are defying the models in unexpectedly positive ways for DVC.

** variables that cause problems in making historical comparisons include (and not limited to):

- differences in economic climates (customer spending)

- whether the resort is a known entity (people knew what Poly, CCV, GF were. Not so with SSR, Riviera, etc -- plenty of people on these boards saying they will wait until the resort opens to get a "feel" before they decide)

- Differences in point charts

- Differences in maximum room occupancies

 

[Bearval]

I only asked about AKL, the increase is $10/ point

I tried to get a small contract at OKW today and was told I am on the wait list and that if it did not happen by oct31 I would have to pay the new price. I told him that if the point are not available before the price increases I am not interested. Waiting to see what happens.

 

[AdamsMum]

If they had lowered prices instead,

No disrespect intended. You are right though that we read into these moves, what we would like them to mean, but you have to admit, the moves made surrounding selling Riviera, are bizarre. First to restrict the usage of resale buyers and risk your direct purchasers value, then 2 price increases in a year for original resorts where they may be trying to restrict resale is risky. We never know the strategy.

 

[Clarabelle1987]

It's so interesting to see the perspectives on this. When I researched prior to purchasing, I realized that it's a snowball. Those who bought 10 years ago - regardless of when 10 years ago was; got a deal. Even if it was direct. Some examples, BLT was $120 Direct and is averaging $149/pt resale as of Sept 2019. AKV: was $112 Direct vs $114 Resale as of Sept 2019. Sure there's inflation and time value of money, etc. But even with that you have to admit as an owner, it's not a bad deal. It's basically a 2.5% compounded annually increase - that's more than inflation in that timeframe and even beats out a CD rate in that timeframe. So if you were a 10 year buyer/holder then sold, it would have only cost annual fees to pay for your 10 years of vacation.

I just bought Poly at $128/pt. While I plan on using it and not considering it as an investment, I wouldn't be too upset if this causes my resale value to climb. If in 10 years I get sick of Disney, want a new resort, or wahtever it is and want to sell it for $182/point; I'd only have to sell it for $160/pt for a 2.5% return - or slightly better than a CD rate. Raising prices along the way just helps me out.

Of course we can say - well at some point DVC isn't worth it. But that's only true if Disney raises DVC without raising it's cash rooms. The dollar amount stinks, but think about inflation. It's only expensive if it's outpacing everything else. If everything goes up by 10%, it'll normalize. And if everything goes up 10% and Riviera stays at it's current, it'll look like a deal. Sure it's demand levers primarily targetted at protecting Disney; but it has some very real effects on current and future owners as well. These are the things that prevent your purchase from being on a TUG board being listed for $1.

So small world - But I think we bought your "sister" contract at Poly! We are in ROFR for the other Week 52 contract. Wish I had seen your posts on the July-Sept ROFR thread sooner, we offered $2/pt more than you Hoping this change in direct pricing doesn't stop our contract from passing ROFR!

 

[TexasChick123]

I thought they raised prices a small amount last fall too for a total of twice in one year in 2018. I wish I knew where to look, but I could’ve sworn they did it last fall as well as the beginning of 2018.

 

[Madame]

No disrespect intended. You are right though that we read into these moves, what we would like them to mean, but you have to admit, the moves made surrounding selling Riviera, are bizarre. First to restrict the usage of resale buyers and risk your direct purchasers value, then 2 price increases in a year for original resorts where they may be trying to restrict resale is risky. We never know the strategy.

I believe they thought the resale restrictions would make RIV sell itself. So, even though it is selling well, they are still not satisfied.

People continue to want the ability to trade and are still requesting the cheapest L14 direct for blue card status, so they jack up the price instead of reconsidering the value of the restrictions.

They need to use a carrot, not a stick They will not, however. This new management is not the type to admit to nor re-examine anything. Easier to find multiple things to blame instead of admitting that maybe they’ve reached the limit on pricing and what the market will support.

 

[Jenniebee]

They need to use a carrot, not a stick They will not, however. This new management is not the type to admit to nor re-examine anything.

Agreed - they need to offer real incentives, not be punitive. Disney used to be about features and benefits and offering that "plus-one" thing over the standard. Now it's about having to upgrade to meet the standard.

 

[Bing Showei]

No disrespect intended. You are right though that we read into these moves, what we would like them to mean, but you have to admit, the moves made surrounding selling Riviera, are bizarre. First to restrict the usage of resale buyers and risk your direct purchasers value, then 2 price increases in a year for original resorts where they may be trying to restrict resale is risky. We never know the strategy.

If we look at the overall trend of what we’ve seen with The Walt Disney Company, Inc., I would say the move to continue raising the prices on “sold out” resorts, a second time notwithstanding, is consistent with everything else we have seen lately.

- sudden overnight increase in APs
- steadily increasing gate prices
- increasing EMM offerings while decreasing EMH
- increased prices on moderate and value resorts on an unproven Skyliner
- increased food costs across all parks

This, of course, all speaks to your reaction to the inane notion that Disney would ever lower prices, but it also shows a continued pattern that should surprise no one. The restrictions are merely an extension of this pursuit of increasing the bottom line.

To that end, with the influx of direct purchases being diverted from Riviera due to the restrictions, of course Disney is going to raise prices where the money goes. We are at the height of Disney timeshare popularity. Why would Disney not try to capitalize on that if people continue to buy?

I’m just not convinced it can be attributed to Riviera sales results, however we choose to see them.

 

[CarolMN]

I thought they raised prices a small amount last fall too for a total of twice in one year in 2018. I wish I knew where to look, but I could’ve sworn they did it last fall as well as the beginning of 2018.

From the DIS DVC RESOURCE CENTER:

Post #4

 

[TexasChick123]

From the DIS DVC RESOURCE CENTER:

Post #4

Thank you! I knew they did this last year too because when someone quoted some direct price last fall, I had missed the increase.

***THE IMPORTANT TAKEAWAY IS THAT THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME THEY'VE INCREASED DIRECT PRICES TWICE IN ONE YEAR!!! RIVIERA WASN'T EVEN ON SALE YET LAST TIME THEY DID THIS!

 

[SL6827]

Thank you! I knew they did this last year too because when someone quoted some direct price last fall, I had missed the increase.

***THE IMPORTANT TAKEAWAY IS THAT THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME THEY'VE INCREASED DIRECT PRICES TWICE IN ONE YEAR!!! RIVIERA WASN'T EVEN ON SALE YET LAST TIME THEY DID THIS!

Ahhhh, well it is not the first time then.

 

[kboo]

Thank you! I knew they did this last year too because when someone quoted some direct price last fall, I had missed the increase.

***THE IMPORTANT TAKEAWAY IS THAT THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME THEY'VE INCREASED DIRECT PRICES TWICE IN ONE YEAR!!! RIVIERA WASN'T EVEN ON SALE YET LAST TIME THEY DID THIS!

Yeah but this time they are doing it because ... [insert a reason about killing resale or Riviera Desperation]

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Here's a link I found on DVC resale market:
https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/blog/anticipated-direct-price-increase-coming-january-16/
So for people who say "just add on a small direct purchase" that small add will be upwards of $20k.

I thought the current direct price on SSR was $156? Says $151 in the article.

 

[SL6827]

Well I wonder if twice a year will be the new norm for every year? Until recession hits at least?

 

[Jenniebee]

I thought the current direct price on SSR was $156? Says $151 in the article.

That article is from Jan 2019, so when they say current, they mean what it was prior to the change in January. If you were to buy it today it's saying it is $160, and it is rumored to be going up again this week to $165.

 

[ScubaCat]

To that end, with the influx of direct purchases being diverted from Riviera due to the restrictions, of course Disney is going to raise prices where the money goes. We are at the height of Disney timeshare popularity. Why would Disney not try

I agree with this completely. The new resale booking restrictions effectively made the original 14 resorts more valuable. I'm just looking forward to the day when many unknowing Riviera owners go to sell their contracts and/or buyers buy them and learn of the restriction after the fact. Somebody is going to be pretty angry!

 

[ELMC]

I don't think Disney cares about resale prices. They don't view the resale market as a true competitor. They view people renting DVC points out as a competitor, but not the resale market itself a competitor. They view the direct prices at other WDW DVC resorts as their main competition to getting people to buy direct at Riviera.

I respectfully disagree. When people buy resale Disney does not get their money. Listen to the salespeople...they care a lot.

That said, I agree with your statements regarding CRO reservations being the competition for sales as well as the fact that they care about point renters for the same reason that they care about resale...they're not getting the money. On every rental transaction the owners are getting paid and the brokers are getting paid and Disney is getting zip, zilch, zero, nada. You know they're not happy about that.

With every monthly sales report that comes out, the little bit of wishful thinking that I’m grasping for (that the restrictions will be reversed), slowly withers away. The final nail for me is going to be the spike we see in sales when the resort goes live.

I'm glad to see you haven't given up hope and I'm also glad to see that you're moving on. I'm fairly convinced that these restrictions are part of a much bigger plan surrounding the future of the DVC system as a whole. Ripping the bandaid off hurts, but once you do it, it's done. The noise around the restrictions will die down and if sales are slow, Disney can simply offer incentives.