Tell me everything you know about ADHD!

[Lilacs4Me]

We have legally been granted guardianship of DH's great nephew as of last month. He is 11, 6th grade. He apparently used to be on medication for ADHD, but if this is true, his mother took him off of it well before we ever got him. His latest report from school is that he blurts out and talks out of turn too much, which distracts the teacher and other kids. DN11 says he doesn't realize when he does it. He tells me that he can't help it.

We are scheduling therapy for him and meeting with the school, but in the meantime, I am trying to learn everything I can about ADHD. I don't doubt that he may have it, but I also think that the circumstances of his upbringing have taught him to make excuses for his behavior and to not take personal responsibility for his actions. (no abuse issues, he's just been raised by many different people, mostly older ladies, where he has been allowed to push the boundaries and call the shots) His "excuses" are so canned that they sound like he is just repeating things that he has heard adults telling him. "I can't control myself" "I have a hard time remembering that I shouldn't talk." "I need a concentration jar so that I can remove myself from the situation" He seems to enjoy the attention this issue is bringing him more than it is bothering him which has me a little wary of some traditional "aides" they use in the classroom. He was super excited and thrilled to tell me yesterday that he gets to sit in a rocking chair instead of a regular chair in math class so, in his words he can "keep myself distracted so that I don't talk out loud". He has attention-seeking tendancies (lying, tall tales, noise-making, etc) and liked telling the kids around him why he got to have the rocking chair. So, I'm not sure how I feel about this being a solution....

Is teaching/learning/expecting self-control and discipline even a viable option with ADHD kids? Are rocking chairs and "concentration jars" and "fidget spinners" really the way to go? What happens when they don't have this stuff in the real world - is their behavior just excused? How old is too old for these measures? I can see using them when a kid is 6...7...8, but do some kids need this all the way through high school? When does it stop becoming "needed" and start becoming an excuse to act out because you left your concentration jar at home that day or the rocking chair is not available in the science lab, KWIM?

I'm struggling to learn all of these answers in a short time. Websites and reference materials only state facts. I need some real-life advice and "been there, done that" stories!

And please, I would like to keep this thread informative and helpful, and not fight about each other's parenting styles. I have my own way of disciplining my bio-kids because they don't have ADHD and I don't give them excuses or let them get away with this kind of behavior. They know, and would know, that this behavior and disrespect is not acceptable and we have zero tolerance for it! My instincts are to do the same with DN11, but I have a feeling he won't respond to the same kind of parenting, or should I treat him the same and expect the same? If he truly cannot help it, I don't want to punish him for being himself - he's a great kid and loving and kind and sweet overall, but I also want to help him succeed in life and not use every reason in the book to excuse away the bad behaviors that run rampant in his (DH's) family. We are trying to give him a better life, so I feel like it's a balancing act between providing tough love and understanding the issues involved. I'm so lost here, this is all new to me!

Thanks!

 

[katie01]

I have three kids, one who has ADHD, and two who don't, and I want to tell you, ADHD is real. It is very real. And my child with ADHD responds very, very differently to rules and consequences than the other two. After years of beating myself up, and banging my head against a wall wondering why nothing was working, I found an online support group for parents of kids with ADHD, and it is pretty much mind-blowing how similar the behaviors of our kids are, across the board, as well as how astounding it is that the traditional methods of parenting don't really change the behaviors.

I think the important thing to realize is that the executive functioning skills in these kids' brains are not the same as a neuro-typical child. If indeed your great nephew has it, you are likely going to see difficulties with short term memory. Difficulty with understanding cause and effect, such as "If I don't study for this test, I will fail". They will see the effect, in failure on the test, but the next time around, it's like they never learned that at all. Or maybe they do pull that out of their memory banks, and make that connection, but then the execution to get there "What do I have to do to study for this test?" is not there.

Lack of motivation is a big problem here. My neurotypical kids just have it. We do all the parenting things "they" say to do, and yep, the other two kids naturally want to do well. All of our kids know that we love them no matter what, we aren't "mad" at them if they don't do well in school, but two of them understand the big picture of how good grades=more opportunities, and naturally work to get there. The other one still doesn't make the connection, despite numerous talks about it. Not only that, there is some self-perception that is off, where our child with ADHD thinks they can get failing grades and still attend the top college of their choice, despite conversations to the contrary, explaining what colleges look for in accepting students.

Lying and manipulating are common. I posted here once before about this, and was told I obviously must do something as a parent to be controlling or I must show favoritism to my other kids and that's why my child with ADHD lies, and hearing that was devastating to me, because I think I'm pretty honest in my self-evaluating as a parent, and I know I love all my kids the same, and I certainly don't think I'm controlling either. I value honest communication with my kids and it was killing me that we were seeing all the lying, when she knows she can tell us anything. Again, I have since found in the ADHD support group that lying is extremely common with this condition, and not in response to a parenting technique. I don't know the scientific reasons for it in relation to what is going on on the brain, but how we have dealt with it is to remain calm. Luckily DD gives some obvious clues when she is not telling the truth, so we will say, "I'd like you to be honest. Why don't you take your time and think about what really happened, and you can rephrase what you just said". Often she will go back and reverse the lie to the truth, and we do not act angry that she lied the first time, we thank her for telling the truth. If she persists in the lie and we find evidence of the truth, then there is a consequence such as removal of electronics for a set period of time.

DD has had extensive neuro psych testing years after her initial ADHD diagnosis, and they confirmed that she definitely exhibits all the traits of ADHD, they did not find additional learning disabilities. Most kids need six hours to complete the testing, DD needed 9 hours. The doctor attributed this mostly to her ADHD, and said she is just going to need more time to do her work. Years ago DD had also had an auditory discrimination test done by an audiologist, and that test showed that in an environment with distractions, DD was able to pick up less than half of the important information that neurotypical kids her age would be able to pick up. With her medication, those numbers improve significantly. I am a believer in the medication, for her, because it allows her to pass her classes. Some kids are twice exceptional (have ADHD plus giftedness) and can survive without the medication, but DD does not fall into that category, and the medication is vital to her learning in my opinion.

DD has a very difficult time making and keeping friends. We have tried different schools and activities for her, and as it stands right now, she pretty much has no friends in her life. This is an interesting article about why kids with ADHD often struggle. https://www.additudemag.com/why-add-kids-struggle-to-make-friends/ I think it may possibly be worse for girls, DS does not have ADHD, but has friends with ADHD, and I think boys aren't ostracized as much if they don't have self control or good conversational skills. A lot of boys can fit in if they have ADHD and are good at sports. DD has fine and gross motor issues and doesn't enjoy sports and other kids further ostracize her for her lack of coordination.

You know, I totally agree with you that disrespect is not acceptable. It's not something I would excuse either. But I have developed an understanding that DD's ability to emotionally regulate is just not the same as other kids. So I call her on the disrespect, but it is very important that I don't show anger. I need to model the control she sometimes lacks. As difficult as it is in the moment when I am feeling angry too, she sometimes just needs a hug and to know she is loved. I can say, "I can tell you are angry that you can't find your red shirt. It is not ok to scream at me and blame me for it though. I can give you a hug if you need to calm down, or you can go in your room to get yourself together. I will help you look for it if you can ask me nicely". With my other kids, I could just say, "Knock it off! Stop screaming at me about your lost shirt!" and they'd snap out of it. I have found with my child with ADHD though, this flippant approach can cause her to spiral completely out of control. There were days when she'd have a two hour meltdown over something so trivial, she didn't even remember what it was at the end of the two hours.

Also, I have learned to recognize it takes her about 10 times more repetition to learn something. Sometimes even more. Not an exaggeration. That applies to learning material for school, or learning the rules. It does no good for me to get angry and ask "Do I have to tell you 50 times that you don't throw wet towels on the carpet?" or whatever it is. Because the answer is yes. Yes, I need to tell her 50 times LOL. And it does help to have a sense of humor! Realize that kids with ADHD most often already have a low self esteem, already know they are different than other kids, already know their behavior annoys the people around them. I really feel that no one would WANT to annoy others, want to perform poorly in school, or get fired from jobs at a rate much higher than others, but that is the reality of ADHD. Do a google search on the rate of alcoholism and drug use with ADHD too. Every day my goal is to keep building up and recognizing the good, and gently correcting what has gone wrong. She got an A on a test last week, for the first time in years. She was thrilled and so were we. You may not have these same struggles with your nephew, he may have more of an affinity for learning. It's hard to say. Just don't be so sure that his upbringing led to him making excuses, like you mentioned in your post. I think that is another hallmark trait of ADHD, as I mentioned before: not seeing the connection between their actions and results. Also, maybe they just get tired of having to work so much harder than everyone else, and they make excuses for self-preservation. If your brain was darting in and out, basically shutting it's "attention" switch on/off on/off all day long, I'm sure you'd get weary too. When DD does apply herself, she works way harder than most kids, often to achieve much less positive results. It's wearying and I understand why she wants to blame something outside of herself. I just tell her, "You're right, you do have to work harder than other kids at a lot of things, and ADHD is tough to deal with. But you will have learned resilience and persistance. You have learned compassion. Don't worry about what the letter grades say, just concentrate on doing your best, and learning something from every class you take. Look at everything as an opportunity to bring you closer to fulfilling your purpose in life".

I wish you lots of luck, it is great that you are willing to raise your great nephew. He will likely need even more reassurance that he is loved, if his bio parents weren't up to the job of parenting. Just try to show him you love him no matter what, and try to find lots of time to laugh and have fun together!

 

[FlightlessDuck]

What I know about ADHD is that people who don't have first hand experience with it will complain it's used to diagnose children who just don't behave or is caused by sugar or flouride or chemtrails or something.

 

[katie01]

What I know about ADHD is that people who don't have first hand experience with it will complain it's used to diagnose children who just don't behave or is caused by sugar or flouride or chemtrails or something.

Yep. But you forgot to say they will also blame it on bad parents who don't discipline their children, and are too lazy to parent. Or kids that are lazy. Never mind that in most cases, the kids and the parents are probably working twice as hard as most parents/kids to do what others take for granted.

I do think that maybe others are seeing cases where a parent has undiagnosed ADHD, and has struggled all their lives too. To the outside it may look like poor parenting or laziness, but there are real challenges going on based on the brain chemistry of both the parent and child. In our case, we don't share our child's DNA, and neither DH nor I know what it's like to live with that struggle in our own brains. But it is very real. Telling a child with ADHD to "just focus and behave" is like telling a clinically depressed person to "snap out of it and be happy"

 

[Magpie]

I used to be suspicious of ADHD diagnoses. In large part because I was given that diagnosis as a child. And the psychiatrist who did academic testing on my kids (who I know aren't ADHD), made passing comments about considering it for both of them. Also, a teacher tried to suggest our daughter might have it. And, one of my students, when I first started tutoring, had that diagnosis for awhile despite having no attentional difficulties that I could see (eventually they decided she was actually just dyslexic). There's definitely something to the criticism that ADHD is over diagnosed.

But then I met a child who really truly wanted to pay attention, and couldn't. He couldn't even keep his eyes on the page in front of him. His speech was jumbled and he kind of moved inside of his own clothes constantly. He would literally smack himself on the head with both hands, trying to force himself to sit still and pay attention. I told his mother I couldn't work with him - it wasn't fair to him and I felt that I was causing him distress by asking him to do something he clearly couldn't do.

Six months later, she asked me to try again. He was a totally different boy! Happier. Coherent speech. Still a bit scattered, and slow (I mean, in terms of processing speed, not in terms of his intelligence), but finally able to complete a learning task. He'd been tested at the local hospital, and put on medication for ADHD. I might have thought that he'd just matured, except for the day he showed up at my door saying happily, "I didn't get my pill this morning!" and his mother shouted, "Sorry!" from the car as she drove off. The difference was obvious, and I showed his mother the next time I saw her what his work looked like that day. On the medication, his writing was typical for a 7 year old. Off of it, the page was nothing but scratches, scribbles and rips where he'd jammed his pencil all the way through.

That kid made me a believer.

As for other folks with ADHD... my son's best friend has a more subtle variant of it. He's not on medication and he seems fairly pulled together most of the time, but he's severely absentminded. I've seen him lose focus halfway through a sentence, because something distracted him. Like Dug from Up, "Squirrel!" And, where it becomes disabling, is when it prevents him from doing things he really wants to do. He never completed high school (though he's working on getting his GED now, apparently). He accidentally stood his girlfriend up at her own graduation, and made her cry in the bathroom. He's let people down and hurt people, despite being one of the sweetest young men you'll ever have the pleasure of meeting. I remember my son's anger and disappointment when concert plans they'd made would fall through because his best friend had vanished and couldn't be reached. His grandmother actually called our house, recently, because they'd lost track of him and he hadn't contacted anyone in his family for weeks. They were worried (fortunately, my son keeps tabs on him).

ADHD is real. With my son's friend, I think it must perhaps be like living in a thick fog. It's sad, and difficult, and the last thing in the world I'd ever want to tell a person with ADHD is that they aren't trying hard enough or they lack self control. As with any other learning disability, what's needed isn't stricter parenting or more discipline, it's understanding, coaching, and accommodation where required.

 

[rwdavis2]

Based on our daughter, diagnosed early junior year in HS. First off, find a reputable psychologist/psychiatrist to have a thorough evaluation done. The testing can take a couple of hours. The one we found pretty much nailed it. But he does not treat patients. We then took the eval to the psychiatrist/counseler she had been seeing and she was prescribed Daytrana patches. A time-release form of ritalin(sp?).

It worked very well up through about late college years. The meds were no longer working well at that point. She lost her job out of college due to ADHD issues. She moved home and the only condition was to agree to see a different psychiatrist. The new one was excellent. She took her off the meds and substitured Wellbutrin. She went through serious withdrawal for about a month with no Daytrana.

It turns out that Daytana is no longer effective after a few years. The first doctor had turned into nothing more than a script writer. By that time she was an adult and we could not intervene with the doctor.

So, keep a close watch if the child is prescribed medication to make sure it's still working. Counseling is usually required in tandem with medication for kids that young.

 

[LJSquishy]

I do not have children and don't have ADHD myself, but have been around multiple kids diagnosed with ADHD and wanted to share that those who switched their families over to a Paleo lifestyle saw huge improvements in multiple areas. A clean diet free from added sugars, artificial ingredients & food dyes, grains, legumes, and dairy, and full of protein, lots of vegetables, and healthy fats can do wonders.

 

[QueenIsabella]

I second the suggestion of having a thorough work-up done, by a psychologist that specializes in behavioral pediatrics.

Our DS20 has had issues with school, pretty much since preschool. He's a smart kid, but had tons of struggles. He was tested in first grade, by the school psychologist, and he scored either 95th%, or 5th%, on pretty much everything. He was in occupational therapy for years, with absolutely no results. We suspected Asperger's, and probably a learning disability (his dad has one), but nobody could seem to give us a proper diagnosis.

In high school, he was diagnosed with ADHD. I kind of objected--he wasn't the slightest bit hyperactive--but the meds they gave him did seem to help him focus. His grades improved, although he still struggled socially.

Finally, last summer, we were able to get him tested by someone who really knew her stuff. They did 8 hours of testing. The results were: Asperger's (technically autism, they no longer differentiate, but he's high functioning). Depression. Social anxiety. Extremely introverted. Auditory processing disorder. And finally, dyspraxia (extreme difficulty writing). He also has quite a high IQ, which was masking his struggles to some extent. The one thing he didn't have was ADHD! He's now on meds for anxiety, which helps quiet the voices in his head, allowing him to concentrate on school. It's also helped him to be somewhat more social--participating in class, talking to his fellow students, and so forth. He also uses specialized study techniques--for example, he doesn't take notes in class, because writing is such a challenge for him. Instead, he reads the chapter ahead of time, taking notes as needed, and then attends the lectures to reinforce what he's read.

My point is, you need to know exactly what you're dealing with. We've gone through a few different meds/dosages to find the right one for our son. We also spent a lot of time going down rabbit holes, trying to find out what was actually wrong with him. It has been quite the journey. But I'll tell you, sitting in the neuropsychologist's office was like having someone shine a beacon in the darkness!

 

[rwdavis2]

I second the suggestion of having a thorough work-up done, by a psychologist that specializes in behavioral pediatrics.

Our DS20 has had issues with school, pretty much since preschool. He's a smart kid, but had tons of struggles. He was tested in first grade, by the school psychologist, and he scored either 95th%, or 5th%, on pretty much everything. He was in occupational therapy for years, with absolutely no results. We suspected Asperger's, and probably a learning disability (his dad has one), but nobody could seem to give us a proper diagnosis.

In high school, he was diagnosed with ADHD. I kind of objected--he wasn't the slightest bit hyperactive--but the meds they gave him did seem to help him focus. His grades improved, although he still struggled socially.

Finally, last summer, we were able to get him tested by someone who really knew her stuff. They did 8 hours of testing. The results were: Asperger's (technically autism, they no longer differentiate, but he's high functioning). Depression. Social anxiety. Extremely introverted. Auditory processing disorder. And finally, dyspraxia (extreme difficulty writing). He also has quite a high IQ, which was masking his struggles to some extent. The one thing he didn't have was ADHD! He's now on meds for anxiety, which helps quiet the voices in his head, allowing him to concentrate on school. It's also helped him to be somewhat more social--participating in class, talking to his fellow students, and so forth. He also uses specialized study techniques--for example, he doesn't take notes in class, because writing is such a challenge for him. Instead, he reads the chapter ahead of time, taking notes as needed, and then attends the lectures to reinforce what he's read.

My point is, you need to know exactly what you're dealing with. We've gone through a few different meds/dosages to find the right one for our son. We also spent a lot of time going down rabbit holes, trying to find out what was actually wrong with him. It has been quite the journey. But I'll tell you, sitting in the neuropsychologist's office was like having someone shine a beacon in the darkness!

Great post. I agree on getting a good psychologist. I would not at all rely on anyone the school provides.

 

[katie01]

QueenIsabella, I'm so glad you were able to find the answers for your son. I hope things are going well with all of you.

It just made me think, isn't it interesting, with autism, you don't really hear people nowadays saying, "There's no such thing as autism. It's bad parenting, the parents just need to force their child to speak/not be sensitive to noises/make eye contact/learn self control". Or, "the kids just need to stop making excuses and communicate like they are supposed to". I do think this happened many years ago, the whole concept of "refrigerator mothers" and blaming it on a lack of nurturing, which has obviously been disproved.

It just makes me wonder why these myths still persist with ADHD then. ADHD has been around at least as long as autism. Why does the general population accept that there is a "real" condition (autism) that affects communication and social skills, among other things, but cannot accept there is also a condition that causes hyperactivity, behavioral problems, and inability to focus. Certainly, some people do accept this, but it seems like it's a bigger mental hurdle for most people to grasp than it was for people to understand that autism is real. Maybe it's the whole idea of behavioral conditioning, how we generally can shape behavior, good or bad, in people or animals. But what if those shaping skills don't work, even when you repeat them over and over and over? And the negative behaviors still persist? That's the part of ADHD I wish people would understand. That the behavioral modification works with neurotypical kids, but either takes many more years in kids with ADHD, or fails to work at all.

(And I'm not saying that one is easier to live with than another. Both have their own unique challenges. I'm just interested in the varied perceptions)

 

[Lilacs4Me]

I have three kids, one who has ADHD, and two who don't, and I want to tell you, ADHD is real. It is very real. And my child with ADHD responds very, very differently to rules and consequences than the other two. After years of beating myself up, and banging my head against a wall wondering why nothing was working, I found an online support group for parents of kids with ADHD, and it is pretty much mind-blowing how similar the behaviors of our kids are, across the board, as well as how astounding it is that the traditional methods of parenting don't really change the behaviors.

I think the important thing to realize is that the executive functioning skills in these kids' brains are not the same as a neuro-typical child. If indeed your great nephew has it, you are likely going to see difficulties with short term memory. Difficulty with understanding cause and effect, such as "If I don't study for this test, I will fail". They will see the effect, in failure on the test, but the next time around, it's like they never learned that at all. Or maybe they do pull that out of their memory banks, and make that connection, but then the execution to get there "What do I have to do to study for this test?" is not there.

Lack of motivation is a big problem here. My neurotypical kids just have it. We do all the parenting things "they" say to do, and yep, the other two kids naturally want to do well. All of our kids know that we love them no matter what, we aren't "mad" at them if they don't do well in school, but two of them understand the big picture of how good grades=more opportunities, and naturally work to get there. The other one still doesn't make the connection, despite numerous talks about it. Not only that, there is some self-perception that is off, where our child with ADHD thinks they can get failing grades and still attend the top college of their choice, despite conversations to the contrary, explaining what colleges look for in accepting students.

Lying and manipulating are common. I posted here once before about this, and was told I obviously must do something as a parent to be controlling or I must show favoritism to my other kids and that's why my child with ADHD lies, and hearing that was devastating to me, because I think I'm pretty honest in my self-evaluating as a parent, and I know I love all my kids the same, and I certainly don't think I'm controlling either. I value honest communication with my kids and it was killing me that we were seeing all the lying, when she knows she can tell us anything. Again, I have since found in the ADHD support group that lying is extremely common with this condition, and not in response to a parenting technique. I don't know the scientific reasons for it in relation to what is going on on the brain, but how we have dealt with it is to remain calm. Luckily DD gives some obvious clues when she is not telling the truth, so we will say, "I'd like you to be honest. Why don't you take your time and think about what really happened, and you can rephrase what you just said". Often she will go back and reverse the lie to the truth, and we do not act angry that she lied the first time, we thank her for telling the truth. If she persists in the lie and we find evidence of the truth, then there is a consequence such as removal of electronics for a set period of time.

DD has had extensive neuro psych testing years after her initial ADHD diagnosis, and they confirmed that she definitely exhibits all the traits of ADHD, they did not find additional learning disabilities. Most kids need six hours to complete the testing, DD needed 9 hours. The doctor attributed this mostly to her ADHD, and said she is just going to need more time to do her work. Years ago DD had also had an auditory discrimination test done by an audiologist, and that test showed that in an environment with distractions, DD was able to pick up less than half of the important information that neurotypical kids her age would be able to pick up. With her medication, those numbers improve significantly. I am a believer in the medication, for her, because it allows her to pass her classes. Some kids are twice exceptional (have ADHD plus giftedness) and can survive without the medication, but DD does not fall into that category, and the medication is vital to her learning in my opinion.

DD has a very difficult time making and keeping friends. We have tried different schools and activities for her, and as it stands right now, she pretty much has no friends in her life. This is an interesting article about why kids with ADHD often struggle. https://www.additudemag.com/why-add-kids-struggle-to-make-friends/ I think it may possibly be worse for girls, DS does not have ADHD, but has friends with ADHD, and I think boys aren't ostracized as much if they don't have self control or good conversational skills. A lot of boys can fit in if they have ADHD and are good at sports. DD has fine and gross motor issues and doesn't enjoy sports and other kids further ostracize her for her lack of coordination.

You know, I totally agree with you that disrespect is not acceptable. It's not something I would excuse either. But I have developed an understanding that DD's ability to emotionally regulate is just not the same as other kids. So I call her on the disrespect, but it is very important that I don't show anger. I need to model the control she sometimes lacks. As difficult as it is in the moment when I am feeling angry too, she sometimes just needs a hug and to know she is loved. I can say, "I can tell you are angry that you can't find your red shirt. It is not ok to scream at me and blame me for it though. I can give you a hug if you need to calm down, or you can go in your room to get yourself together. I will help you look for it if you can ask me nicely". With my other kids, I could just say, "Knock it off! Stop screaming at me about your lost shirt!" and they'd snap out of it. I have found with my child with ADHD though, this flippant approach can cause her to spiral completely out of control. There were days when she'd have a two hour meltdown over something so trivial, she didn't even remember what it was at the end of the two hours.

Also, I have learned to recognize it takes her about 10 times more repetition to learn something. Sometimes even more. Not an exaggeration. That applies to learning material for school, or learning the rules. It does no good for me to get angry and ask "Do I have to tell you 50 times that you don't throw wet towels on the carpet?" or whatever it is. Because the answer is yes. Yes, I need to tell her 50 times LOL. And it does help to have a sense of humor! Realize that kids with ADHD most often already have a low self esteem, already know they are different than other kids, already know their behavior annoys the people around them. I really feel that no one would WANT to annoy others, want to perform poorly in school, or get fired from jobs at a rate much higher than others, but that is the reality of ADHD. Do a google search on the rate of alcoholism and drug use with ADHD too. Every day my goal is to keep building up and recognizing the good, and gently correcting what has gone wrong. She got an A on a test last week, for the first time in years. She was thrilled and so were we. You may not have these same struggles with your nephew, he may have more of an affinity for learning. It's hard to say. Just don't be so sure that his upbringing led to him making excuses, like you mentioned in your post. I think that is another hallmark trait of ADHD, as I mentioned before: not seeing the connection between their actions and results. Also, maybe they just get tired of having to work so much harder than everyone else, and they make excuses for self-preservation. If your brain was darting in and out, basically shutting it's "attention" switch on/off on/off all day long, I'm sure you'd get weary too. When DD does apply herself, she works way harder than most kids, often to achieve much less positive results. It's wearying and I understand why she wants to blame something outside of herself. I just tell her, "You're right, you do have to work harder than other kids at a lot of things, and ADHD is tough to deal with. But you will have learned resilience and persistance. You have learned compassion. Don't worry about what the letter grades say, just concentrate on doing your best, and learning something from every class you take. Look at everything as an opportunity to bring you closer to fulfilling your purpose in life".

I wish you lots of luck, it is great that you are willing to raise your great nephew. He will likely need even more reassurance that he is loved, if his bio parents weren't up to the job of parenting. Just try to show him you love him no matter what, and try to find lots of time to laugh and have fun together!

Thank you for writing all this out! I am learning that ADHD is so much more than a kid being overly active and not sitting still. So many of the things you described are what we are seeing with DN11. The repetition of telling him things we have told him over and over, the seemingly lack of ability to form habits like "first you wash your face, then brush your, teeth, get dressed, and come down for breakfast" Every day seems like a brand new world to him sometimes, but then again, my two boys act like that sometimes too until I tell them to knock it off! lol And the oldest is 17!

It's interesting have two 11 year old boys in the house at the same time. DS11 is neurotypical and healthy, although he gets migraines and had some gastro issues most of last year, plus we have a sneaking suspicion he has some level of anxiety issues that get in the way of him completing the task at hand sometimes. But he is a decent student and controls himself, whereas DN11 also wants to be a decent student but has these seemingly self-control problems that get him into trouble. DS11 and he share 3 classes during the day and I think having DS there "policing" him helps in those classes, although I have made it CLEAR with both of them that neither are responsible for each other's behavior and they both need to mind their own business! DS11 tries to get DN11 to behave, and DN loves to come home and tattle on DS for not getting his work done. At least they are acting like real brothers already! lol

DN11 does really seem like he WANTS to behave and do the right thing, I have no doubt about that! He is really a nice boy and respectful and agreeable to the rules when he remembers. It's weird, the kind of holes he has in his social awareness. He was taught to jump to attention and agree "yes, ma'am", "OK", "sure, right away", but then at the same time, he wasn't taught table manners or a whole lot of personal hygiene or how to take care of himself. He's been catered to in a weird way because most of his caretakers were grandmother-types who made sure he ate everything on his plate whether he liked it or not, and bathed, and made his bed, and went to bed at 8pm, etc. But they have always TOLD him what to do, what to wear, what to think instead of letting him make decisions on his own, so he is really immature in those ways. I am left wondering what came first in the old chicken vs. egg story - did the ADHD affect his upbringing or did the lack of teaching him self-control and responsibility exacerbate symptoms that mimic or worsen the ADHD? Probably a combination of both, IMO, but it leaves me confused as to how to handle the discipline part of it. It's a circle that I go round and round with every day! Because like I said, I don't want to expect or force him or punish him into doing something his brain simply isn't wired to do, but at the same time I feel we will be remiss in just accommodating all these things for him if it's within his ability to control all, some, or at least a little bit of it. I guess it's just another one of those parenting dilemmas and an exercise in experimentation.

Therapy is definitely in the works, and a support group to learn more about this is a great idea! I know that I can patiently remind him of his daily tasks until I am blue in the face if needed, I can, but at some point he will have to start taking responsibility for his actions and life, and that scares me right now! Time has gone by so fast since DS17 was in 6th grade and now he is graduating in the spring and going off to college. I tease him all the time that I will need to move there with him because he cannot even make himself a sandwich lol, but of course I am teasing and I know he will be perfectly fine on his own, but I don't see DN11 even close to getting to that point if he stays on the track he is on. I don't want him to struggle in life! And I feel this big urgency since we are entering into this when he is already becoming an adolescent and missed those opportunities for help he could have had growing up if we had gotten him sooner

Thanks again! I'm printing your message out to show DH if you don't mind!

 

[BernardandMissBianca]

My youngest boy (DS15) has ADHD. I discipline him as I do the other 3 because ADD or not, he knows right from wrong etc. But in saying that, all 4 have different currency. DS15's is video games. Do something wrong and you lose screen time. I don't find that he lies, he's actually pretty brutally honest but he may get that from his dad, plus I was a master liar growing up so I can smell a lie a mile away. I would lean more towards your DN11 is using it as an attention seeking tool.

I would talk to his DR about being officially diagnosed even if he was before because you will need this when you get to the school part. DS15 takes Vyvanse. We had him on Vyvanse and Adderall but the Adderall made him stay up all night. We opted to up the Vyvanse and drop the Adderall and it gets him through homework but he still sleeps at night. Vyvanse does suppress his appetite so he normally doesn't take it on the weekends if we don't have anything to do so he will catch up on food over the weekend. On occasion he will take melatonin at night to help him sleep if he is particularly amped up (usually around midterms and finals). I also make sure his pill is taken before 10:30 am, I have found that anything past that, and he's up all night. It may take some trial and error on the Dr's part to find the right med and dosage so you will just have to bare with your DN11 til you find the right one. What I like most about Vyvanse is DS is still DS, he's a quirky kid and on the meds he's just a calmer version of himself, he's not a zombie and it didn't change his personality.

When you talk to the school set up a PPT meeting and talk about getting him on a 504 plan, this is where you will need that diagnosis. The key parts of DS15's are he gets preferential seating at the front of the class, he gets written followup for things like study guides etc. He struggles with verbal commands so they will say his name before asking a question, making a statement when speaking directly to him etc. and if there is an oral test they must followup with written if he fails the oral. The one thing he did ask for that I squashed was he likes to pace when he's thinking, I said no. He will not disrupt the rest of the class to benefit himself. He can pace at home til the cows come home but he won't do it in school. I let DS15 run the PPT meeting because at the HS level I felt he knew what he needed better than I did. I told him to advocate for himself so he felt he had some control over what the plan was, it really helps him adhere to the guidelines set in place for him. Oh and we utilized an assignment book in middle school that the teacher signs off on at the end of the day. He was responsible for writing the assignment down but they checked it just to make sure. Now in HS they use classroom and google docs but the assignment book was a lifesaver.
We also told the teachers not to take away recess as a punishment, he needed that time to burn some energy off. His old school was famous for taking away recess, they relished that punishment so when I moved him to private school that was a hard line I drew in the sand.

As for the rocking chair, hard to say. Our old 2nd grade teacher had yoga balls in a stand for her class and she saw vast improvement in production and behavior so one of these chairs might be worth it. It goes up to their desk so they can still work but they can wiggle around and burn off some of that energy. As long as he's using the chair as a tool and not to get out of doing work then it could be as asset.

One important thing about a kid with ADHD is don't give him more than 2 directions at a time, you have to limit the steps. If DH tells DS to do 4 things, the last 2 are the ones that get done. DH is really bad about telling the kids, clean up your plate, wipe up the table, take out the trash, and do whatever. But he never waits for them to finish task one before throwing task 2 and 3 at them. So task 1 may not get done 100% before task 2 and 3 are skipped entirely and task 4 is the only one that gets done.

I would also look into either a sport or some kind of thing that uses his mind, chess, fencing, something that can burn some of his energy and challenge his mind DS15 runs cross country and does fencing. XC is good for the energy and fencing is very logical like chess, so it keeps his mind moving forward at a speedy rate. Robotics is another good one, my friends son has severe ADHD and is the captain of the robotics team.

And as LJ said, diet is really important. Things like red dye, yellow dye, sugar, white starches etc will trigger the ADHD. We do a lot of brown rice and grains, veggies, and lots of protein.

It's going to be a lot of trial and error, but if you are all on the same page your nephew can be hugely successful in managing his ADHD. And if you have any specific questions don't hesitate to ask.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

I do not have children and don't have ADHD myself, but have been around multiple kids diagnosed with ADHD and wanted to share that those who switched their families over to a Paleo lifestyle saw huge improvements in multiple areas. A clean diet free from added sugars, artificial ingredients & food dyes, grains, legumes, and dairy, and full of protein, lots of vegetables, and healthy fats can do wonders.

QueenIsabella, I'm so glad you were able to find the answers for your son. I hope things are going well with all of you.

It just made me think, isn't it interesting, with autism, you don't really hear people nowadays saying, "There's no such thing as autism. It's bad parenting, the parents just need to force their child to speak/not be sensitive to noises/make eye contact/learn self control". Or, "the kids just need to stop making excuses and communicate like they are supposed to". I do think this happened many years ago, the whole concept of "refrigerator mothers" and blaming it on a lack of nurturing, which has obviously been disproved.

It just makes me wonder why these myths still persist with ADHD then. ADHD has been around at least as long as autism. Why does the general population accept that there is a "real" condition (autism) that affects communication and social skills, among other things, but cannot accept there is also a condition that causes hyperactivity, behavioral problems, and inability to focus. Certainly, some people do accept this, but it seems like it's a bigger mental hurdle for most people to grasp than it was for people to understand that autism is real. Maybe it's the whole idea of behavioral conditioning, how we generally can shape behavior, good or bad, in people or animals. But what if those shaping skills don't work, even when you repeat them over and over and over? And the negative behaviors still persist? That's the part of ADHD I wish people would understand. That the behavioral modification works with neurotypical kids, but either takes many more years in kids with ADHD, or fails to work at all.

(And I'm not saying that one is easier to live with than another. Both have their own unique challenges. I'm just interested in the varied perceptions)

Those are the exact same questions I am asking!

I do not doubt this is real for so many people. I totally believe it is true and real. And seeing it with DN11 is really an awakening to seeing how "normal" measures simply do not work like they do for other people.

I think the hardest thing for me is that I am never quite sure HOW MUCH the ADHD part is the problem, and how much is DN11 using it as an excuse to not care about behaving. That sounds mean, but I swear that sometimes it seems like he has been told so many times that he has ADHD that he thinks its a free pass to do whatever he wants! I'm trying to sort through what part of that, if any, is true and what is TRULY him not being able to control himself. He seems to be able to turn it off and on sometimes, when it is good for him to do so, but then I wonder if he exhausts himself to the point where he just can't do it anymore.

It's hard just not knowing. DS11 has some health issues that weren't always visible, yet are very real at least to HIM, and it is so hard to determine if they just don't want to do something or if there truly is a problem.

What's your "bottom line" with your ADHD child? By that I mean - what behaviors do you try to shape and mold the most, and what do you let slide or are willing to repeat over and over? I think we are going to have to figure this out sooner than later, and I'm curious as to what other parents draw the line at?

 

[rwdavis2]

As was mentioned in several posts, a child with ADHD can be socially awkward and immature for their age. Our daughter had both. She's finally maturing to her age at 26. She's a 6th grade teacher now and it was either mature or get eaten alive by her students.

 

[rwdavis2]

What's your "bottom line" with your ADHD child? By that I mean - what behaviors do you try to shape and mold the most, and what do you let slide or are willing to repeat over and over? I think we are going to have to figure this out sooner than later, and I'm curious as to what other parents draw the line at?

Work with the therapist. But I think you're on the right track in that not everything can be dealt with all at once. Getting school work/behavior under control is important. Our daughter had problems picking up social cues from other and I wish we would have worked on that early on as well.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

Work with the therapist. But I think you're on the right track in that not everything can be dealt with all at once. Getting school work/behavior under control is important. Our daughter had problems picking up social cues from other and I wish we would have worked on that early on as well.

Yes, so does DN11. He had an issue earlier this year where he would go up to a new friend and slam his locker shut. The friend was getting annoyed and kept telling DN to stop, but the social cue just wasn't being picked up on. The kid finally turned around one day and pushed DN to the ground and yelled at him to stop!

I didn't have to do anything about it. DN never did it again. He finally got the message, but it took the kid to get to a point of almost rage before DN picked up on it.

I think having "siblings" and not being the only child in households of elderly adults is helping too. My kids have no problem telling each other when they are being annoying or calling each other out on stuff, and they include DN right in there along with it now lol And DN is starting to learn how to stand up for himself and call them out too, which is fun to listen to And DN adores DS17 and really looks up to him, so many times I will talk to DS17 about these issues and he will talk to DN11 - he really listens to him as a role model and older cousin.

Thank you!

 

[cabanafrau]

QueenIsabella, I'm so glad you were able to find the answers for your son. I hope things are going well with all of you.

It just made me think, isn't it interesting, with autism, you don't really hear people nowadays saying, "There's no such thing as autism. It's bad parenting, the parents just need to force their child to speak/not be sensitive to noises/make eye contact/learn self control". Or, "the kids just need to stop making excuses and communicate like they are supposed to". I do think this happened many years ago, the whole concept of "refrigerator mothers" and blaming it on a lack of nurturing, which has obviously been disproved.

It just makes me wonder why these myths still persist with ADHD then. ADHD has been around at least as long as autism. Why does the general population accept that there is a "real" condition (autism) that affects communication and social skills, among other things, but cannot accept there is also a condition that causes hyperactivity, behavioral problems, and inability to focus. Certainly, some people do accept this, but it seems like it's a bigger mental hurdle for most people to grasp than it was for people to understand that autism is real. Maybe it's the whole idea of behavioral conditioning, how we generally can shape behavior, good or bad, in people or animals. But what if those shaping skills don't work, even when you repeat them over and over and over? And the negative behaviors still persist? That's the part of ADHD I wish people would understand. That the behavioral modification works with neurotypical kids, but either takes many more years in kids with ADHD, or fails to work at all.

(And I'm not saying that one is easier to live with than another. Both have their own unique challenges. I'm just interested in the varied perceptions)

ADHD has indeed been around a very long time. Back in my father's day he was just labeled a bad kid. When my brother was struggling and was then diagnosed my dad looked at the doctor and said, that was me, I went through this too, nobody knew there was a reason for it. Even at the time my brother was diagnosed the basic answer was Ritalin. My mother had a very hard time accepting that meds would be ultimately better than simply struggling and missing out on education and social potential. Sadly Ritalin made my brother's issues ten times worse. If you're familiar with a child with serious ADHD issues imagine compounding it by the power of ten. He was very fortunate that it was just at the cusp of the development of some other meds by the time my mother was ready to accept medication treatment -- and that the second med worked for him for a period of two to three years, and that by that time there were more options to move to when the initial success of that med wore off. Consistent monitoring and counseling should always be a part of any treatment involving psychotropic meds.

I notice all of the references in this thread seem to be of ADHD, none of ADD, which also involves attention deficits. It involves the same struggles of staying focused on task, without some of the challenging behavior tendencies that are wrapped up in the hyperactivity component.

Unfortunately some people still do say there's no such thing as autism, it's just an invention of parents and doctors. I hope none of these people have an autistic child, because the kids deserve better.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

My youngest boy (DS15) has ADHD. I discipline him as I do the other 3 because ADD or not, he knows right from wrong etc. But in saying that, all 4 have different currency. DS15's is video games. Do something wrong and you lose screen time. I don't find that he lies, he's actually pretty brutally honest but he may get that from his dad, plus I was a master liar growing up so I can smell a lie a mile away. I would lean more towards your DN11 is using it as an attention seeking tool.

I would talk to his DR about being officially diagnosed even if he was before because you will need this when you get to the school part. DS15 takes Vyvanse. We had him on Vyvanse and Adderall but the Adderall made him stay up all night. We opted to up the Vyvanse and drop the Adderall and it gets him through homework but he still sleeps at night. Vyvanse does suppress his appetite so he normally doesn't take it on the weekends if we don't have anything to do so he will catch up on food over the weekend. On occasion he will take melatonin at night to help him sleep if he is particularly amped up (usually around midterms and finals). I also make sure his pill is taken before 10:30 am, I have found that anything past that, and he's up all night. It may take some trial and error on the Dr's part to find the right med and dosage so you will just have to bare with your DN11 til you find the right one. What I like most about Vyvanse is DS is still DS, he's a quirky kid and on the meds he's just a calmer version of himself, he's not a zombie and it didn't change his personality.

When you talk to the school set up a PPT meeting and talk about getting him on a 504 plan, this is where you will need that diagnosis. The key parts of DS15's are he gets preferential seating at the front of the class, he gets written followup for things like study guides etc. He struggles with verbal commands so they will say his name before asking a question, making a statement when speaking directly to him etc. and if there is an oral test they must followup with written if he fails the oral. The one thing he did ask for that I squashed was he likes to pace when he's thinking, I said no. He will not disrupt the rest of the class to benefit himself. He can pace at home til the cows come home but he won't do it in school. I let DS15 run the PPT meeting because at the HS level I felt he knew what he needed better than I did. I told him to advocate for himself so he felt he had some control over what the plan was, it really helps him adhere to the guidelines set in place for him. Oh and we utilized an assignment book in middle school that the teacher signs off on at the end of the day. He was responsible for writing the assignment down but they checked it just to make sure. Now in HS they use classroom and google docs but the assignment book was a lifesaver.
We also told the teachers not to take away recess as a punishment, he needed that time to burn some energy off. His old school was famous for taking away recess, they relished that punishment so when I moved him to private school that was a hard line I drew in the sand.

As for the rocking chair, hard to say. Our old 2nd grade teacher had yoga balls in a stand for her class and she saw vast improvement in production and behavior so one of these chairs might be worth it. It goes up to their desk so they can still work but they can wiggle around and burn off some of that energy. As long as he's using the chair as a tool and not to get out of doing work then it could be as asset.

One important thing about a kid with ADHD is don't give him more than 2 directions at a time, you have to limit the steps. If DH tells DS to do 4 things, the last 2 are the ones that get done. DH is really bad about telling the kids, clean up your plate, wipe up the table, take out the trash, and do whatever. But he never waits for them to finish task one before throwing task 2 and 3 at them. So task 1 may not get done 100% before task 2 and 3 are skipped entirely and task 4 is the only one that gets done.

I would also look into either a sport or some kind of thing that uses his mind, chess, fencing, something that can burn some of his energy and challenge his mind DS15 runs cross country and does fencing. XC is good for the energy and fencing is very logical like chess, so it keeps his mind moving forward at a speedy rate. Robotics is another good one, my friends son has severe ADHD and is the captain of the robotics team.

And as LJ said, diet is really important. Things like red dye, yellow dye, sugar, white starches etc will trigger the ADHD. We do a lot of brown rice and grains, veggies, and lots of protein.

It's going to be a lot of trial and error, but if you are all on the same page your nephew can be hugely successful in managing his ADHD. And if you have any specific questions don't hesitate to ask.

Thank you!

We do have him in a sport right now being watched closely by DH (he is the coaching and safety director on the board for the league), and he wants to play basketball in the winter and possibly try out Lacrosse with DS11 in the spring. We told him he can try any sport except hockey lol because the closest rink is 40 min away and I just don't have time or money for that! But anything else - football, baseball, basketball, lax, fencing, swimming, soccer, tennis, golf etc we actually require our kids to play a sport - whichever one they want, and it doesn't have to be a team sport, it can be anything - but they have to be active and not sit around playing video games all day every day.

We are working on the diet...he grew up eating one type of (fat and carb laden mexican) food, and fast food or prepackaged junk like Ramen noodles and cans of pasta. He will eat veggies not because he wants to but because he's been trained to clean his plate. He doesn't enjoy fresh fruit and veggies and will lie and say he tried it before and didn't like it, but when pressed ("really? You have eaten eggplant before? When?") he WILL try it, but we are slowly introducing him to a wider variety than just canned corn and peas. He ate asparagus with us a while back and actually liked it Yay!

 

[Lilacs4Me]

ADHD has indeed been around a very long time. Back in my father's day he was just labeled a bad kid. When my brother was struggling and was then diagnosed my dad looked at the doctor and said, that was me, I went through this too, nobody knew there was a reason for it. Even at the time my brother was diagnosed the basic answer was Ritalin. My mother had a very hard time accepting that meds would be ultimately better than simply struggling and missing out on education and social potential. Sadly Ritalin made my brother's issues ten times worse. If you're familiar with a child with serious ADHD issues imagine compounding it by the power of ten. He was very fortunate that it was just at the cusp of the development of some other meds by the time my mother was ready to accept medication treatment -- and that the second med worked for him for a period of two to three years, and that by that time there were more options to move to when the initial success of that med wore off. Consistent monitoring and counseling should always be a part of any treatment involving psychotropic meds.

I notice all of the references in this thread seem to be of ADHD, none of ADD, which also involves attention deficits. It involves the same struggles of staying focused on task, without some of the challenging behavior tendencies that are wrapped up in the hyperactivity component.

Unfortunately some people still do say there's no such thing as autism, it's just an invention of parents and doctors. I hope none of these people have an autistic child, because the kids deserve better.

I was under the impression that the D part of ADHD also refers to the hyperactivity going on in the wiring of the brain, not just the outward physical hyperactivity? Not that I am an expert in any way! But I wonder if that's why the ADHD diagnosis is more prevalent nowadays?

 

[cabanafrau]

I was under the impression that the D part of ADHD also refers to the hyperactivity going on in the wiring of the brain, not just the outward physical hyperactivity? Not that I am an expert in any way! But I wonder if that's why the ADHD diagnosis is more prevalent nowadays?

I know there are changes in the way it's referenced today, and I know the meds have come quite a long way since my brother was diagnosed more than 30 years ago.