Yee Haw Bob Sexual Harrassment

[robinb]

From what I understand, she has not actually seen the photo herself. Apparently, someone else has it.

I find it odd that she sent in a complaint to Disney with a photo she never personally viewed.

 

[amberpi]

But you know the difference between unintentional and intentional really... A brush as someone walks by, a badly placed hand in a photo are different than being grabbed. You have to put effort in to grab someone’s behind. In no way could that be unintentional IMO.

ETA- She said he “grabbed and squeezed”

Ah! you're right! She did say grabbed and squeezed, so not as unintentional as I was thinking it *could* have been.

 

[lisaviolet]

Did everyone read her post?

She said he squeezed her butt. Squeezed. For a prolonged period.

So I'm utterly perplexed about comments about his hand possibly being in the wrong place, in an absolute innocent manner, when she used that verb. I have never had anyone squeeze my upper back or the small of my back while taking a picture.

EDIT: Already posted.

 

[greentea]

I find it odd that she sent in a complaint to Disney with a photo she never personally viewed.

She didn't. Her friend sent the photo in a separate complaint. (eta: Sorry, complaint seems to be the wrong word, more like separate interaction. Which means her complaint did come with the photo, via a friend, who she trusted re: content.)

I would trust my friend's word on whether a photo contained an image of an event that had happened to me. I would trust them to support me by sending that photo for me if it was too upsetting to view it (which is the case here -- she should not have to view a photo of her own assault if she doesn't want to, and she certainly shouldn't be pushed into posting it online for people to stare at and pick apart).

 

[AliceAnn]

I find it odd that she sent in a complaint to Disney with a photo she never personally viewed.

Right! “(I never saw the photo myself - too upsetting)” and she “promptly” tore up the check Disney sent, I imagine she didn’t save the torn up pieces for evidence either. Or possibly take a picture of the check as proof of a payoff from Disney. Something smells fishy here.

 

[wgeo]

I think that sums the situation up perfectly: guilty or innocent, I can't see any easy way out of this for Bob to remain in his job now.

My problem is, no one else really knows the "guilty or innocent" answer for certain except for Bob's and Michelle's own personal interpretations of the same event. Disney obviously believed Bob's version (as there's absolutely no way they would have risked potentially damning brand-damage otherwise, especially if there was a photo sent to them) but Michelle has also made a very clear and compelling case on Facebook countering that opinion with her own side of the story. Sadly, Bob's guilt or innocence is probably now a moot point as this will all come down to whatever spreads fastest on the internet, and I think we all know how that will end.

My own concern, as I stated above, is that this all comes down to interpretation. I would be really amazed if in 20 years of arranging photo opportunities with assorted groups of people, hands had not occasionally landed in places where they should not have been while getting everyone lined up for a photo on that small stage area. And as I understand it, this incident was with quite a big group of Disney race bloggers, and presumably lots of cameras and mobile phones (which thinking about it in hindsight, would be a really stupid time to think about groping someone!).

Michelle clearly interpreted this as a completely deliberate and malicious attempt to "feel her up", and quite rightly she regards this as abuse against her person and in the current climate she is adamant that needs to be addressed and action taken. However this is an interpretation that I suspect Bob may not agree with, but I honestly think that whatever he might say now will just add fuel to the fire and be treated as merely a cover-up - it's now a case of "damned if you, damned if you don't". The internet will have decided.

So I'm not saying who is right and who is wrong as I wasn't there so I can't know - and further evidence may still crop up anyway, as this allegation is only 24 hours old. What I am saying is that I like and trust both Michelle and Bob, so there are still questions in my own mind as to two potential interpretations of the same event, both of which may be utterly accurate in each person's recall.

Now how you resolve that I have no idea, but as I said above I can't see any good outcome of this for Bob no matter whether this situation was actually accidental or malicious.

Andre

I gotta say - this is an incredibly complicated issue. And I think that you and I probably come down on slightly different sides, however I find your posts to be very well reasoned and thought out. It shows just how much grey there is on all sides of this.

 

[MJ6987]

Did everyone read her post?

She said he squeezed her butt. Squeezed. For a prolonged period.

So I'm utterly perplexed about comments about his hand possibly being in the wrong place, in an absolute innocent manner, when she used that verb. I have never had anyone squeeze my upper back or the small of my back while taking a picture.

EDIT: Already posted.

I actually think I have had similar to this - some people are just naturally tactile and / or very friendly - but not necessarily being deliberately inappropriate.

 

[robinb]

Did everyone read her post?

She said he squeezed her butt. Squeezed. For a prolonged period.

So I'm utterly perplexed about comments about his hand possibly being in the wrong place, in an absolute innocent manner, when she used that verb. I have never had anyone squeeze my upper back or the small of my back while taking a picture.

EDIT: Already posted.

Yes. I read it that. Again, I don't doubt that's what she thought happened. That still doesn't mean that Bob actually intentionally squeezed her and assaulted her. It's a small bench so I could see that he might have put his arm around her to keep her from falling off. Are you saying you have never had someone hold on to you firmly during a photo in close proximity? I certainly have.

She didn't. Her friend sent the photo in a separate complaint.

I would trust my friend's word on whether a photo contained an image of an event that had happened to me. I would trust them to support me by sending that photo for me if it was too upsetting to view it (which is the case here -- she should not have to view a photo of her own assault if she doesn't want to, and she certainly shouldn't be pushed into posting it online for people to stare at and pick apart).

Whoops, I missed the friend was interviewed and sent the photo. I just re-read it. I still stand by my opinion that if she's going to speak up to ruin someone's career and reputation over being groped and she has proof that he groped her then the friend should provide it. I understand that maybe it was too painful for her to view at the time but she is the one making the allegations now. I would guess that the photo is probably inconclusive because of the chump change that Disney offered her.

 

[lisaviolet]

I actually think I have had similar to this - some people are just naturally tactile and / or very friendly - but not necessarily being deliberately inappropriate.

I actually was thinking of changing the wording in my post from anyone to stranger, when I gave life more thought.

_____________________________________

So a stranger has squeezed your butt, or I guess you would mean any part of you, while taking a picture? And you just thought that they were being friendly and not deliberate in their intent.

Not being sarcastic at all MJ6987, really just trying to follow.

 

[Colleen27]

So this is turning into a one-person driven internet witch hunt now? Surely the police would be a much more appropriate course of action rather than an internet viral smear campaign based on one person's post which could utterly destroy another person's career and life without any conclusive evidence?

You try calling the police to report someone grabbing your butt and see what their reaction is. It is so easy for men to brush this one away with "innocent until proven guilty", knowing full well that actions like this don't quite cross the line into criminal behaviour so there will certainly be no "proven guilty" at all. There's generally no way to prove someone grabbed your butt, not in the moment and certainly not days/weeks/months later. There's no physical evidence. There's only he said/she said, often in situations where "he" has reputation, power, or position on his side while "she" is a nobody to whom many people will automatically ascribe ulterior motives (money, fame, attention, revenge).

I understand the feeling that accusations alone can ruin lives and careers, but I literally don't know a single woman who hasn't had her butt or boob grabbed against her will at some point. Saying that the appropriate course of action is to call the police is akin to telling people offended by swear words to call the police on people who cuss in public. It is so common, and viewed as so minor/tolerable, that there's no category of legal action that fits. It isn't sexual harassment if it isn't at work. It isn't serious enough to be treated as assault under rape/criminal sexual conduct laws. It is just part of being female in our society, and I think changes to that sad reality, rather than ruined careers or financial compensation, is what most women are hoping to see come from the #MeToo campaign. I know that's true for me. I don't give a crap if the specific men who thought it was "cute" or acceptable to pinch or grab my butt or make comments about my breasts when I was working on their computers suffer for it. Its been almost 20 years, I don't even remember their names. But I would like to see the world change enough that if the same happens to my daughter, her boss's reaction when she reports it isn't "Just ignore it, he's harmless."

 

[AngiTN]

This makes me very, very sad.

If it’s true, then Bob has been using his position and fame to assault young women. That is disgusting.

If it’s not true, I think his reputation will be too damaged for him to go on. He is ruined even if innocent.

In any case, I think we will hear of his retirement very soon.

Exactly. Even if there is lots of proof that shows this never happens, NO ONE EVER READS THE RETRACTION/CORRECTIONS!
Ever. The damage is done with the accusation.

I don't know her, and I don't even know who he is. If she is willing to tell her story and name him and tell everyone that she has proof IMO she should post those pictures.
She could be telling the truth, or she could be lying. I"m of the opinion if you are going to publicly accuse someone of something that has the potential to ruin that person's life, and in the same token help other to avoid what you went through then you should post that proof. She named his name, why not show the act. She doesn't owe it to anyone, but I believe proof, I don't just believe her because she's a woman and she says it happened. YMMV.

Exactly. This is huge. Big, giant, huge accusation. The photo she mentions exists should be provided. To not provide only seems to make her story appear curious.

Haha! $500 isn’t hush money. That’s empty claim money. “Here you were slightly inconvenienced” money. Obviously people looked at this picture. (I’m positive some females too) and said “This person is being a little sensitive.”

Unless more people come forward I highly doubt out of the thousands of pictures this man has taken with people he decided to go all sex offender with this one woman.

Yep. No way, no how is this a 1 time thing as she recounted it so far. Either he's done this before or she was off base on what occurred. I don't believe she's doing this to be malicious but something is off about it all. None of this is enough to prevent me from going to take a photo or from sending DGD to take one

 

[lisaviolet]

Yes. I read it that. Again, I don't doubt that's what she thought happened. That still doesn't mean that Bob actually intentionally squeezed her and assaulted her. It's a small bench so I could see that he might have put his arm around her to keep her from falling off. Are you saying you have never had someone hold on to you firmly during a photo in close proximity? I certainly have.

I have Robin.

But I would never have communicated that as prolonged squeezing. Never. Holding me firmly is not prolonged squeezing to me. And if it was on my butt, I would have removed the hand and put it back over and over (not blaming her, just stating what I would and have done.).

And let's not forget that she is stating that others saw it and thought the same thing. And they are not the ones experiencing it as squeezed.

 

[Mermaid02]

Once an accusation is out there- a person's reputation is ruined. In cases like this the burden of proof is on the accused to prove that they DIDN'T do it, instead of the accuser proving it did happen.

 

[L&Lfan]

Shouldn't it have been merged with the thread on the rumors and news board?

SHADE!

 

[AngiTN]

I want to say first and foremost that I recognize that to have your butt, or any other part, grabbed/pinched or groped unwanted is never ok, in any circumstance. It shouldn't be accepted or brushed off as ok no matter who did it or how old the guy is (or gal)
But I also have to say, I can't imagine that it's so traumatic to any adult woman she can't stand to see a photo of it. I'm honestly asking any other adult women here, what your thought on that is. Could you really not even see a photo of a hand on your butt?

 

[amberpi]

Can I just use the Disboards to generally state how sad this rash of exposed sexual misconduct is? It just sucks, but I'm glad the victims are coming forward and maybe things will start to change. FWIW, I thought this article of all those brought to light since Weinstein was worth a view. The fricking former guitarist of Real Estate? Seriously? At least they fired him, but that one hit me right in my indie music loving feels:

https://consequenceofsound.net/2017...uct-since-harvey-weinstein/?wasp=facebook-ads

 

[robinb]

I have Robin.

But I would never have communicated that as prolonged squeezing. Never. Holding me firmly is not prolonged squeezing to me. And if it was on my butt, I would have removed the hand and put it back over and over (not blaming her, just stating what I would and have done.).

Sometimes I think I underestimate my ability to literally feel when something is off, even if the situation reads normal to others. I trust my thoughts in this area 100%, and if anyone thinks I am wrong I truly know that I'm not. Not being condescending or pompous, if it comes off that way. I guess I thought that the majority of people have that ability for themselves. To know that something is off.

And let's not forget that she is stating that others saw it and thought the same thing. And they are not the ones experiencing it as squeezed.

I think that if I was touched in the butt-area I would consider it more of a squeeze than a firm touch to keep her on the bench. I don't doubt that she thought it was a squeeze.

 

[amberpi]

I want to say first and foremost that I recognize that to have your butt, or any other part, grabbed/pinched or groped unwanted is never ok, in any circumstance. It shouldn't be accepted or brushed off as ok no matter who did it or how old the guy is (or gal)
But I also have to say, I can't imagine that it's so traumatic to any adult woman she can't stand to see a photo of it. I'm honestly asking any other adult women here, what your thought on that is. Could you really not even see a photo of a hand on your butt?

I mentioned earlier, it's not really for us to speculate about this woman should or shouldn't and does or doesn't feel about it. The more I read the more I'm realizing the incident really impacted HER which is kinda the only bit that matters, right?

 

[AngiTN]

I mentioned earlier, it's not really for us to speculate about this woman should or shouldn't and does or doesn't feel about it. The more I read the more I'm realizing the incident really impacted HER which is kinda the only bit that matters, right?

which is why I didn't say what she should have done herself but I can't help but wonder how many others would or wouldn't look at the photo

 

[lisaviolet]

It is just part of being female in our society, and I think changes to that sad reality, rather than ruined careers or financial compensation, is what most women are hoping to see come from the #MeToo campaign.

This.

This is exactly how I feel. And I am relatively optimistic about it all. You now have people knowing that they have less chance at getting away with their actions.

And people will hopefully feel more and more confident with dealing with it in the moment. Or close to the time it happens --- not blaming past timing of accusations, just how it might change because of the shift happening right now.