You must be swift as the coursing river (as long as it's the Lazy River) - comments welcome

[dobball23]

Some thoughts on pacing and generic plan structures
In which we get into the weeds

I was looking at the Jack Daniels 5K/10K plans since Billy recommended them, and it got me thinking about different types of paces. So I decided to write about it here because there is a slight chance that someone might be interested, whereas if I start talking about it in real life, there is zero chance

The way I look at it, there are two groups of paces: race (distance-based) paces and physiological (body dynamics-based) paces.

Race paces are pretty straightforward. What's the fastest pace you can run for 5K under ideal conditions? For a marathon? And so on. Lots of calculators will give you estimates for these paces if you give them a recent race to work with. I've been using McMillan for my race paces, but I usually check others as well just to see what they say.

Physiological paces are a little more complicated. They represent transitions where... *waggles fingers dramatically* ...stuff happens. Inside your body. (Look, I fulfilled my science reqs in college with Astronomy and Biology of Dinosaurs. I don't know anatomy and physiology. This is what I've got.) The one everyone generally knows is lactate threshold, which is the point where lactate builds up in your blood faster than your body can clear it out. There's others too, though: where your body switches from carbs to fats as a primary fuel source, where you change from aerobic to anaerobic training, etc.

The problem with physiological paces (besides needing a biology degree to understand them, and apparently spelling "physiological"), is that you can't see them happening in real time. Like, okay, you can go to a 5K and be pretty sure the course will be 3.11 miles. That might not be exactly what your GPS tells you, but the actual course, if it's certified, was measured professionally and confirmed. A 5K is pretty much 5K for everyone, and one 5K is pretty much the same as the next 5K, at least in terms of distance.

But you can't look inside your cells and check if your lactate is clearing. (Well, you can, but you have to pay money and be in a lab on a treadmill, and it's not really useful enough, for most recreational runners at least, to be worth it.) And people are individuals, so my lactate threshold might not be the same as your lactate threshold, even if our race paces are the same.

In practice, so that we can actually use them in day-to-day training, physiological paces usually come with time guidelines. Lactate threshold is the pace you could race for 60 minutes. Critical velocity is the pace you could race for 30 minutes. VO2max/maximum aerobic speed is the pace you could race for between six and 12 minutes, depending on who you ask

View attachment 826652
Wow, that was a lot, and we haven't even gotten to the point yet! Look, here is a cute Rottweiler melting into the carpet. Please stare into his sweet, chocolate-colored eyes for a long moment and give your brain a break.

Okay. So. We've established that there are two different types of paces. Now, this might seem obvious, but the next step is: they don't line up the same for everyone. For example, here are my paces - both race paces and physiological paces - in order from slowest to fastest:

• Easy
• Marathon
• Steady (2h - 2h30m race pace)
• Half marathon
• Lactate threshold (60 min race pace)
• 10K
• Critical velocity (30 min race pace)
• 5K

I added the time guidelines for context and left out VO2max/mile pace because I'm not totally clear on how those fall. For purposes of this discussion, it doesn't really matter. The takeaway here is, by approximating physiological paces by time, we can fit them in with race paces. BUT a different runner could have them in a completely different order. For example, what if you run a 32-minute 5K?

• Easy
• Marathon
• Half marathon
• Steady
• 10K
• Lactate threshold
• 5K
• Critical velocity

Or, what if you're an elite runner with a 28-minute 10K PR?

• Easy
• M/steady
• HM/lactate threshold
• 10K/CV
• 5K

In that case, your paces actually kind of line up with these physiological processes, which is interesting and kind of cool but not relevant. The point is, you can't use distances for physiological paces, and you can't use duration for race paces, and have them apply equally to every runner.

Example. Say I find a plan, and it has a workout that includes an interval of 5 minutes at 5K pace. I would cover about 2/3 of a mile in that time, or about 22% of a 5K. Our 32-minute 5K runner would run a little less than half a mile, or about 15% of a 5K. And our elite would get through 1.16 miles, or 37% of a 5K. (Hopefully those numbers aren't too far off; I had to Do Math.)

Let's assume that this 5K is, regardless of speed, equally hard for everyone. All three runners are going as fast as they can over the distance. Which means that the same fraction of the race is also the same effort for each runner. If all three of us ran 25% of a 5K, we would each be using 25% of our 5K effort. (It is not quite that simple, of course, but for purposes of this argument, and to keep this post from being even longer than it already is, we are going to pretend that it is in fact that simple.) So 5 minutes at 5K pace results in very different effort expended for each runner.

Same goes for physiological paces, but the other way around. If a plan says to run 1 mile at lactate threshold, it would take me, according to my current pace calculations, 7:46, or about 13% of my total potential LT duration. It would take the 32-minute 5K runner more like 11 minutes, or 18% of potential LT. And the elite would fly through it in about 4:40, just 8% of their LT potential. In this case, we're putting in the same effort, but for very different durations. That mile at threshold, counterintuitively, is going to be a lot harder for the 32-minute 5K runner than for the elite.

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Sorry again for all the words. Here is another picture of my dog begging for attention by resting his chin on the bed where I am working.

Why does this even matter? Well, if you see, as I did in the Daniels plan, something like 3 miles at lactate threshold followed by 4 short, fast reps and think, "That seems pretty hard..." You're right. (Aside: I dismissed a Pfitz plan for the marathon pretty quickly because he frequently calls for things like 7 miles at lactate threshold, which would be a really bad idea for me and literally impossible if I were a little slower.) But you can still use the plan if you really want to; you just have to figure out what kind of runner it was written for, what their paces would be, and how long the rep would take them (or how far they would go, if the plan is using time for race paces).

To be clear, this doesn't apply if a plan was written for you specifically. If Billy gives you a plan and says to do a mile at lactate threshold, you should do that because he's taken your individual paces into account. If I say in my own plan to do 5 x 5 min at 10K pace, that's fine because I wrote it for myself. But you couldn't then give the same plan to another runner with different paces and have the same impact.

Conclusion: If you're writing a plan that you want runners of varying abilities to be able to use, put physiological paces in time and race paces in distance. If you find a generic plan that doesn't do that, you might want to make some adjustments, or find another plan. In other words, I will still use some of the Daniels workouts, but I will not be doing that 3-mile interval at lactate threshold, thank you.

The end! Now you see why I needed a whole 13-part series to write a training plan the last time

Great analysis! I almost felt like I was reading a post by Billy.

 

[Herding_Cats]

You've summed up so well why I have issues with the training plans I find on the internet, like Luke Humphreys or Matt Fitzgerald. They're always built for much faster runners than I, and I end up exhausted at the end of the training plan. Probably because my workout sessions end up being longer and harder than a fast runner's

SO MUCH THIS! At least with the higdon plans, he has super basic ones, but once you start climbing the ladder of his plans (novice to novice 2 to intermediate) it's like whoopee! I get to do 400 repeats and everything else is the same.

One of the many reasons I'm thankful for Billy to figure this stuff out for me.

 

[WillRunForPizza]

I'm totally stealing the dog breaks the next time I have to run a training at work. I have to do one in February, maybe I'll make the whole thing Puppy Bowl themed

If I were in that training I would be very excited

That is so awesome. I studied in Engineering and our electives were nowhere near as cool as this.

Honestly it was one of my favorite classes. Zero regrets

You've summed up so well why I have issues with the training plans I find on the internet, like Luke Humphreys or Matt Fitzgerald. They're always built for much faster runners than I, and I end up exhausted at the end of the training plan. Probably because my workout sessions end up being longer and harder than a fast runner's

Yeah, I feel like a lot of those plans say they're for everyone, but by "everyone" they mean "people who can run a marathon in 3 hours or less" But I guess if you really wanted to, you could calculate like what percentage of an hour a 3h marathoner would take to do 5 miles at LT or whatever, and just do that instead of 5 miles...

Great analysis! I almost felt like I was reading a post by Billy.

I feel so honored

One of the many reasons I'm thankful for Billy to figure this stuff out for me.

As I'm starting to figure this stuff out myself, it's really giving me a better appreciation for all the work he does!

 

[GollyGadget]

Have you read Daniels’ Running Formula? The book does a good job explaining the paces and the duration one should run them (as well as the % of weekly mileage). There are even handy vdot charts that will be blank for certain values because it’s outside of the desired range for certain athletes.

It’s definitely not fool proof because the book does still include plans that are distance and not time based. But if you read the preceding chapters, you’ll know how to adjust it. My assumption is that most runners prefer running for distance vs time and that’s why the plans are that way.

 

[WillRunForPizza]

Have you read Daniels’ Running Formula? The book does a good job explaining the paces and the duration one should run them (as well as the % of weekly mileage).

Yep, that's how I made most of my workout guidelines chart.

It’s definitely not fool proof because the book does still include plans that are distance and not time based.

And that's how we arrived at this problem lol - I was looking at the 5K/10K plan in the book and some things did not make sense.

My assumption is that most runners prefer running for distance vs time and that’s why the plans are that way.

Personally, I prefer time if it's less than a mile and distance if more. But I guess I should prefer distance for race paces and time for physiological paces now that I've written a whole treatise about it

 

[WillRunForPizza]

Speed training 2024: first draft
In which I finally have a plan. Ish.

In my marathon plan, I more or less broke the full duration into shorter blocks focused on building up mileage, threshold pace, and marathon-specific work (plus the taper). That worked then because I was working pretty much exclusively towards the marathon. I did race a HM in week 6 (which I wouldn't do again but isn't necessarily a terrible idea in theory), but it was not at all the point of my training.

This time, on the other hand, I have a couple of races on the schedule currently and will probably add a couple more. I have races in (italics = tentative):

• Week 7 (Princess)
• Week 10 (RnR)
• Week 14 (parkrun)
• Week 17 (parkrun)

So I couldn't really do the same kind of segmentation of the plan. I had to find a way to work the different systems I would need (mainly lactate threshold and faster) throughout the plan, but without stagnating.

I started by looking at the Daniels 5K/10K plan, which Billy had recommended. I first noticed some lack of universality in the prescriptions (which we have already covered in depth ). But taking a step back, I saw that he's mainly hitting lactate threshold and R (sort of 1-mile race pace, sometimes), often in the same workout. Later in the plan he throws in the occasional H/I (3K pace) workout.

I was obviously not going to use the plan exactly as written for reasons we have already discussed, but I did adapt the structure of some of the workouts, particularly the LT + R combo. The other thing I took from his plan was the frequent strides. He has his runners doing strides after almost every easy run. Since I'm only doing one running workout per week, this seemed like a good way to get in a little extra speed practice, so I decided to try it. Just plain strides for now, but when I get back to DC, I'll try to do some of them on hills for extra oomph.

I also pulled the occasional idea from a bunch of other places: Run Like a Pro by Matt Fitzgerald, some McMillan blog posts, even The Running Channel and the Tread Lightly podcast. Hopefully the variety of workouts throughout the plan will keep my fitness from plateauing!

I made a slight tweak to the structure that I had initially planned, swapping Monday's core and Wednesday's upper body strength. I realized that would be more balanced. Plus I added more strides. So now I have in most weeks:

• Monday: easy + upper body strength
• Tuesday: easy/strides + lower body strength/HIIT
• Wednesday: easy (medium-long)/strides + upper body strength
• Thursday: off
• Friday: workout + total body strength
• Saturday: easy/strides + core
• Sunday: long + yoga

Weekly mileage is around the high 30s/low 40s, peaking close to 50, which is a good bit less than I did in M training. But lest you think that gives me some actual free time, lol, no: I think I'm going to be doing more strength and mobility work than I did in M training, so it'll probably be a similar time commitment. I'll then shift back to more mileage/less strength in the summer/fall.



Weeks 1 and 2 are kind of like pre-training: reminding my body how this all works again. One thing I have learned from the last few training cycles is that the first couple of weeks are consistently terrible, so I had my workouts based on effort rather than any specific paces. Also, I already did everything except tomorrow's long run, so no changes can be made



In weeks 3 and 4, we start getting up in mileage a bit more and getting to some specified paces (which I will really, REALLY try not to overrun this time ). But recovery intervals are still a little longer than they would be later in the plan. I'm trying to keep things interesting with multiple paces and interval lengths in each workout, throwing in a fast-finish long run at the end of week 4.

Also I will be going to the Olympic trials! I'm excited. I tried to volunteer (honestly mostly because I wanted a t-shirt that says "US Olympic Marathon Trials"), but after I filled out like four surveys about availability and preferences, they waitlisted me, so I am currently planning on spectating. This is not related to my training at all except that I moved my rest day.



With two weeks remaining before Princess, I wanted to give myself at least a little bit of training at 10K pace in week 5. But I also wanted to keep the variety, so I modified the Michigan - same general idea, just a little less volume. I thought about doing the whole thing, and I still might. We'll see how I feel in a few weeks.

The mile time trial in week 6 is meant to give me a sense of where my fitness is leading up to the race. The long run takes a step back to keep my legs fresh going into Princess weekend.



Week 7 is race week! Just a little progression workout to keep myself from getting stale, and a shakeout run on Friday. This is definitely a very individual thing, but I find that my worst runs tend to be the day after a rest day, so I try to make sure I do a short run the day before any race. I'm probably racing the 10K and then taking it easy in the half on Sunday.

Then week 8 is for recovery - and extra rest day and mostly easy, with just a little bit of a fast finish on Sunday.



In week 9, we're back to normal with an R/T/R sandwich. (I just use 1-mile pace instead of R because I find it easier.) I'm interested to see how this one goes.

Week 10 is another race week! (At least it is if I'm back home, which is still TBD.) Another small prog, this time with 5K pace in the middle since I'm racing a 5K, and the race on Saturday. You may have seen my 14/15-mile long runs and wondered why I would do such a thing for middle distance races - well, this is why. Between the warmup, 5K, and half on Saturday, I'll be at 18 miles or so for the day, and I don't want that to destroy me completely. Henceforth the long runs will be a little more reasonable



With the race(s) in week 10, week 11 is a recovery week, with just a short progression for a workout. In week 12, we're shortening the T but adding another layer to the R/T/R sandwich with 1 km at 5K pace at the end. Should be fun! Wrapping things up with a fast-finish long run on Sunday.



In week 13, we're keeping things simple with some LT intervals and a solid long run. Then week 14 is tentatively a "race" week - I'm planning to try a parkrun, which I've seen but never done before. For my race week workout, I thought I'd see if it makes a difference to do some light race-pace reps instead of a progression.



Week 15 takes us back to that T + R combo with a fast-finish long run. Week 16 is another twist on that workout, progressing from CV to R/1-mile pace before a rest.



Bonus week! I've actually got a week 17 in this plan because of the spacing I was trying to get between races. Plus that means my last race is (tentatively) on Star Wars Day! Seems appropriate. I haven't scheduled a specific workout for this race week yet because I want to see if it does make a difference exactly what I do, but it will probably be something similar to one of the previous race weeks.

(After Wednesday's discussion, I should probably add a disclaimer that this plan is only meant for me and my current fitness and goals! I am just sharing for those who are interested and/or have additional ideas and would not recommend anyone else use it )

Sorry for the lack of dog photos - I had to use all of my images for training plan screenshots But anyway, here's your time to shine, friends! Questions? Thoughts? Concerns? Suggestions? Anything look weird? Workouts too repetitive? Any ideas or insights are welcome!

 

[eminemilie]

This looks crazy in the best way. I’m light years behind being able to even attempt todo what you do, but it looks super cool

 

[Scootin'By]

Also I will be going to the Olympic trials! I'm excited. I tried to volunteer (honestly mostly because I wanted a t-shirt that says "US Olympic Marathon Trials"), but after I filled out like four surveys about availability and preferences, they waitlisted me, so I am currently planning on spectating. This is not related to my training at all except that I moved my rest day.

This sounds cool! I'm with you about just getting the tshirt Random aside - the Special Olympics are being held in Minnesota in 2026 and I'm planning to try to volunteer and drive up.

Your training plan looks intense - it's perfect!

Sorry for the lack of dog photos - I had to use all of my images for training plan screenshots

Bring back the dog!

 

[avondale]

I am enjoying being a spectator of your training plan development!

I am curious about when you do your strength training, relative to your runs. I usually do strength/mobility/stretching as soon as I get up in the morning because I have a hard time motivating myself to do that in the evenings. I run after work, so late afternoon or early evening. The problem I find is it can be hard to be consistent when I have maybe early doctor's appointments or busy work that take away from my morning time. How do you deal with this?

 

[WillRunForPizza]

This looks crazy in the best way. I’m light years behind being able to even attempt todo what you do, but it looks super cool

Lol hopefully not too crazy! I certainly couldn't have done this training even a year and a half ago, so progress happens!

I am curious about when you do your strength training, relative to your runs. I usually do strength/mobility/stretching as soon as I get up in the morning because I have a hard time motivating myself to do that in the evenings. I run after work, so late afternoon or early evening. The problem I find is it can be hard to be consistent when I have maybe early doctor's appointments or busy work that take away from my morning time. How do you deal with this?

I usually run in the morning, and ideally I'll do strength/mobility right when I get back. Obviously my schedule doesn't always allow for that, but if my morning is busy I can usually find a gap, or a meeting where I don't have to be on screen, when I can do it in the afternoon. If I actually had to go into an office I could absolutely not do all of this

 

[WillRunForPizza]

January 15 - 21, 2023
Speed training week 2 | 34 days until Princess 10K
In which it gets cold

Monday
Easy: 5 miles (10:13), avg. HR 152, max 167, 97% Z1-2
upper body strength

Kinda humid but felt better than Sunday.

Tuesday
Easy/strides: 4 miles (10:46), avg. HR 153, max 176, 87% Z1-2
lower body strength/HIIT/Pilates

Still kind of sluggish on the run. It was quite humid which could have been part of the problem after a decent stretch of low dew points. Then whew! Legs felt like jello towards the end of that strength workout.

Wednesday
Easy/strides: 7 miles (9:41), avg. HR 158, max 179, 93% Z1-2
core/Pilates
Between the cooler weather, low humidity, and bad drivers trying to run me over, I maybe ran a little faster than I should have, but I felt pretty good (except about the drivers). I did the core workout as my warmup and omg that side plank series...

Thursday
off

Friday
Workout: 1.63 mile WU/strides + 10 x 1 min hard/1 min easy + 1.48 mile CD
5.5 miles, avg. HR 167, max 193
total body strength



Strava workout analysis (GAP) chart and splits

Welp. I really made that harder than it needed to be.

I intended for my "hard" intervals to be somewhere between 5K and 10K pace. I also intended to not really look at my watch. I should probably have known I couldn't do both of those at the same time. Oh well! I did get faster again in the last few, just closer to mile pace than 5K.

Saturday
Easy/strides: 5.36 miles (10:21), avg. HR 153, max 176, 91% Z1-2
core

Waited until the afternoon because it is cold here. But it was nice by the time I went out. I had kind of a weird Achilles twinge mid-run, but it went away quickly so maybe it was just my imagination.

Sunday
Long: 11.11 miles (9:55), avg. HR 156, max 168, 95% Z1-2
yoga

Too cold. My legs were kind of complaining the whole time, and I slowed down a bit in mile 10 running directly into a 20 mph headwind. Overall felt better than last week though.

I had half a liter of Skratch and a UCAN gel.

Total
Running: 38.09 miles, 6h 20m
Strength/mobility: 2h 35m
Total: 8h 55m



Coming up


Similar to this week but with a T/R workout and a couple extra miles on the LR.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Conclusion: If you're writing a plan that you want runners of varying abilities to be able to use, put physiological paces in time and race paces in distance. If you find a generic plan that doesn't do that, you might want to make some adjustments, or find another plan. In other words, I will still use some of the Daniels workouts, but I will not be doing that 3-mile interval at lactate threshold, thank you.

Good conclusion. Whenever I write a training plan, the entire thing is time based, but I take race distances into consideration. Then I convert everything into mileage for mileage based runs because other people tend to prefer it written that way.

But you're not too far off from a 3 mile LT interval making sense. They're usually capped around 20 minutes, and your pace is something like 23-24 min or so? So definitely 2.5 miles should be close to within range. It might seem like a lot, but those long LT runs can be fruitful. I haven't done many much over 20 min, but given how I felt during those training runs I suspect they wouldn't have gone well.

Yeah, I feel like a lot of those plans say they're for everyone, but by "everyone" they mean "people who can run a marathon in 3 hours or less" But I guess if you really wanted to, you could calculate like what percentage of an hour a 3h marathoner would take to do 5 miles at LT or whatever, and just do that instead of 5 miles...

Yea, that's what I did years ago with the Elite plan found at the back of the Hanson's book. Turns out when you convert what looks like massive mileage into duration based workouts based on elite pacing, then they become much more approachable. Still an elite level of training volume, but not nearly as scary. My recollection is that is what I followed for my 2017 marathon PR. But most plans have "someone" in mind when they're written. Trick is realizing who that "someone" is.

My assumption is that most runners prefer running for distance vs time and that’s why the plans are that way.

Nailed it.

 

[WillRunForPizza]

January 22 - 28, 2024
Speed training week 3 | 27 days until Princess 10K
In which...wait, now it's hot again?


This week's schedule

Monday
Easy: 5.33 miles (10:39), avg. HR 148, max 156, 100% Z1-2
Upper body strength

It was warmer but still windy. I felt kind of bloated and achy, but I don't think that was running related On the strength side, I quickly learned that the slower reps required lighter weights. And hitting the same muscles four times in a row is tough

Tuesday
Easy/strides: 4.16 miles (10:02), avg. HR ?, max 172
Lower body strength/HIIT

Warmer and more humid, but also less symptomatic.

Wednesday
Easy/strides: 6.87 miles (10:25), avg. HR 152, max 173, 94% Z1-2
Core

I got back and it was hot and humid and I just couldn't be bothered with that last 0.13 miles.


Thursday
Workout: 1.5 mile WU + strides + 4 x 5 min @ LTP/2 min RI + 4 x 1 min @ 1MP/2 min RI + 1.5 mile CD
T+D: 138-143; Goal paces: 7:468:00, 6:346:44
Split paces: 8:05, 7:58, 7:56, 8:01; 6:47, 6:43, 6:40, 6:33
Overall: 7.89 miles, avg. HR 162, max 190
Total body strength


Workout analysis chart from Strava

That was hard.

I decided to move my rest day to Friday so that when it's on Saturday next week, it would only be one day later instead of two. It was quite warm and humid, which is just what you want for a workout, but Friday wasn't looking any better anyway. So I checked the pace adjustments to make sure I wouldn't kill myself.

I managed to be not terrible at pacing by shifting my focus from hitting a specific pace to how far (or for how long) I should be able to run. Apparently this works better for me, because by thinking "pace I can run for an hour" (or 50 more minutes, or 45 more minutes, and so on as the workout went on), I actually ended up pretty close to 8 flat which is what the T+D chart said I should be running. So that's good. Less good, that's not far from what I'd have to run for a whole marathon in order to qualify for Boston, and doing it for 4 x 5 min was plenty hard enough... I guess they're not really comparable though.

But anyway, it was a good thing I brought water with me, even though it's kind of annoying to run at mile pace while holding onto a water bottle. It was gross out, is what I'm saying here. The strength was kind of a lighter one, which was good after that workout.

Friday
off

Somehow my body thinks that 6 days in a row of running is normal, but 7 or more and I feel weird and twitchy when I take a day off. I definitely need the rest, so I'm not considering running 7 days a week, but it's an interesting phenomenon. I ended up doing a little bit of yoga to take the edge off of the restlessness though.

Saturday
Long: 13 miles (10:24), avg. HR 159, max 169, 93% Z1-2
Yoga

Doing my workout a day early ended up being a plus in another way in that it allowed me to do my long run on Saturday instead of Sunday. While they looked fairly equal in terms of weather (T+D in the 140s again, yay), Saturday had the advantage of NOT being the morning after a wine tasting, which I decided was preferable.

I was listening to the latest episode of Nobody Asked Us while I was running and realized that Des was here in Orlando, and I thought, "Maybe she's doing a run at the same time I am!" And maybe we were even running similar distances since she's tapering! Hers would be much faster though I don't know why it's more exciting to be running in the same city as Des Linden (and probably many other Olympic hopefuls), but it is.

Like I said, it was hot enough to be a bit miserable, at least until the clouds popped up in the last few miles and it was slightly less miserable. I was maybe working a bit harder to be a bit slower than a normal long run because of the temps, but other than that I felt okay. The fitness...it returns to me...

I did feel my Achilles for a mile or so towards the end, which wasn't ideal. It didn't hurt; it just sort of developed a dull ache for a bit before going away. So not a huge problem but still not 100% - another reason to be a little cautious with the rest days.

I had half a liter of Skratch, half a liter of plain water, a UCAN, and a GU.

Sunday
Easy: 5.34 miles (10:39), avg. HR 148, max 159
Core

A decent run. I wasn't feeling any aftereffects from the wine, but I was pretty tired from getting back late, so switching the runs was probably a good choice. No Achilles issues, thankfully, though it still feels little tired.

Totals
Running: 42.61 miles, 7h 17m
Strength/mobility: 2h 40m
Total: 9h 58m


Strava weekly training log

Two months after the marathon, I am feeling mostly back to normal. My HR is still a little high relative to my pace compared to marathon training, but it's not too far off. My resting HR has also returned to normal - side question, if you track your resting HR, have you noticed that it drifts up when you're detraining? I don't remember that from last time, but I don't think I was paying as much attention, so I'm not sure if it's weird or not. It's not a big difference (around 44-48 vs. 50-54), but it's noticeable.

Coming up

Next week's schedule

The weather should be cooler again, though fortunately not quite as cold as last week. Saturday looks pretty good for the trials - not too hot for running but not too cold for spectators. Excited! I am not a good photographer, but I will try to get some pictures to share. Anyone want to try to predict the top three on each side??

 

[Blue Caterpillar]

but I will try to get some pictures to share.

That's so cool, I look forward to the photos. I hope des makes it !

 

[jmasgat]

My resting HR has also returned to normal - side question, if you track your resting HR, have you noticed that it drifts up when you're detraining?

My RHR is usually around 50. In November, when my cervical disc issue flared and I pretty much stopped all training of any kind, it crept up to about 55. It is only now heading back downwards as I start running and (trying) to do other XT.

 

[GollyGadget]

My resting hr usually drops when I take a break or decrease my running.

So jealous that you get to watch the trials! Are you going to any of the pre race hoopla? I'll be driving all day and still not sure my plans for following along. I might try to record the replay and watch it later but then I'll have to avoid the internet which will be hard.

 

[WillRunForPizza]

My RHR is usually around 50. In November, when my cervical disc issue flared and I pretty much stopped all training of any kind, it crept up to about 55. It is only now heading back downwards as I start running and (trying) to do other XT.

My resting hr usually drops when I take a break or decrease my running.

Good to know. I feel like this is a logical trend to see, but fitness doesn't always look logical! So I wasn't sure, but at least I'm not the only one.

So jealous that you get to watch the trials! Are you going to any of the pre race hoopla? I'll be driving all day and still not sure my plans for following along. I might try to record the replay and watch it later but then I'll have to avoid the internet which will be hard.

I'm really excited! My dad keeps saying, "You want to drive downtown and find parking so you can watch people run? Why??" and I'm like "YES IT'S COOL I LOVE THEM I'M GOING." Also he watches golf so he has no room to complain

Do you know of any pre-race hoopla? I have been trying to find some but haven't seen much (although I did find an Under Armor cheer zone where they are giving out free t-shirts, so maybe I will end up with a shirt that says US Olympic Marathon Trials!).

If you have Peacock you should be able to watch the replay - that's how I watched all of the World Athletics Championships. I'll probably watch the replay of the trials too because I'll only have seen the bits where they go by me. And maybe I'll be on TV!

 

[GollyGadget]

Good to know. I feel like this is a logical trend to see, but fitness doesn't always look logical! So I wasn't sure, but at least I'm not the only one.


I'm really excited! My dad keeps saying, "You want to drive downtown and find parking so you can watch people run? Why??" and I'm like "YES IT'S COOL I LOVE THEM I'M GOING." Also he watches golf so he has no room to complain

Do you know of any pre-race hoopla? I have been trying to find some but haven't seen much (although I did find an Under Armor cheer zone where they are giving out free t-shirts, so maybe I will end up with a shirt that says US Olympic Marathon Trials!).

If you have Peacock you should be able to watch the replay - that's how I watched all of the World Athletics Championships. I'll probably watch the replay of the trials too because I'll only have seen the bits where they go by me. And maybe I'll be on TV!

I think I experience the opposite for resting heart rate than you. Or I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. Regardless, this is something that I track and here's a graph of weekly mileage vs RHR from last year. My rhr usually dips with my mileage. This can vary of course if my body is recovering from illness or a hard race effort.



Regarding the OTQ, I know there's a sad girls track club run (Izzy Seidel). I thought I also saw other meetups and live podcasts but I don't remember.

ETA: disregard that the graph has weight in the title. This is something that I previously tracked but it had no meaningful relation and I find I'm much happier not tracking it

 

[WillRunForPizza]

I think I experience the opposite for resting heart rate than you. Or I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. Regardless, this is something that I track and here's a graph of weekly mileage vs RHR from last year. My rhr usually dips with my mileage. This can vary of course if my body is recovering from illness or a hard race effort.

Oh okay - I just reread what you said originally and I think I read it wrong the first time lol. So when you're doing less running, your RHR is lower? That's interesting and indeed opposite of what I experienced

Regarding the OTQ, I know there's a sad girls track club run (Izzy Seidel). I thought I also saw other meetups and live podcasts but I don't remember.

Ooh, looks like Brooks has a few events, including this one! Thanks! Maybe some other sponsors are doing stuff too

 

[azrivest]

Ooh, looks like Brooks has a few events, including this one! Thanks! Maybe some other sponsors are doing stuff too

Were you looking at events like these? https://events.hoka.com/HokaMarathonCelebration