Just back from DVC tour- got some juicy tidbits (rumors)

[Sammie]

but have they even officially acknowledged a "rehab" of the CR North building ; let alone a tear-down/new construction?

even if it's a diliberate stonewall, i'd think it'd fall under proprietary information protection, if not; i'm sure they've got plenty of errors of omission insurance jik.

Officially it is listed as a Contemporary expansion project which probably allows them to go either way. Not that I think it will be anything but DVC as I was told what the next Disney resort project would be and it was not Contemporary.

 

[DVC Grammy]

I don't know if this is OT, but, does AKL/V have an existing walking/jogging path already? We have never seen one and after a Boma or Jiko meal, we sure would appreciate it!
All the other DVCs and resorts have plenty of places for a nice long stroll (or jog), but we can't find the one at AKL.
I know there'll be a path from Kidani to Jambo, but are there any others?

TIA to any AKL/V experts!

 

[pilferk]

sorry I just can not agree with all the people saying just because sales are fine on AKV that you cant add benefits to the resort.

Thats about the worst business one could practice.

tthats like saying hey BCV are sold out so lets just leave em alone forever.

you are supposed to stay ahead of the game, we have had countless discussions here on similar situations

just because its not a benefit for everyone does not mean its not a benefit. If you can appeal to MORE people by doing some things or adding some things then you do it.

You have to appeal to ENOUGH people to make it worthwhile. A niche product (in terms of appeal) isn't going to be worhtwhile.

And while I can't prove it won't appeal to enough people, but you can't prove it will.

What we know is Disney hasn't done it, and they have FAR more info on the subject than we do. Beyond that, as I've said, we'll need to agree to disagree on this point.

One thing though: Sales and booking rate are certainly a good indication that people are happy with the resorts current setup and offerings.

 

[AKV707]

I have no ideal if the path is feaible or not. I am just curious. In our pre DVC life, DW and I stayed at the Swan Many times. We loved the walk to Epcot. Anyone have any idea how far that is? How about from BCV to the Studios?

 

[pilferk]

I don't know if this is OT, but, does AKL/V have an existing walking/jogging path already? We have never seen one and after a Boma or Jiko meal, we sure would appreciate it!
All the other DVCs and resorts have plenty of places for a nice long stroll (or jog), but we can't find the one at AKL.
I know there'll be a path from Kidani to Jambo, but are there any others?

TIA to any AKL/V experts!

Nope, nothing really. But then again, I don't see much in that veing for the Poly, GF, or Contemp (the path to MK is pretty short...too short for jogging or real "excersize" level walking). Did I miss something when we stayed at those resorts?

 

[sjdisneywedding]

I want realistic alternatives, though. Those aren't realistic.

First, because you're not accounting for GETTING the guests to the AKL starting point. You're simply arbitrarily picking a starting point outside the lodge proper and going with it. So add the distance to get the guests FROM the lodge, to the point at the the outskirts. You're looking at about 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile of "skirting" to get there, if you can at all. You can't traipse them through the savannah, and your point is smack dab in the middle of the back end of arusha savannah.

Second, you're drawing lines over buildings and a water treatment pond on the AK side. You can't go THROUGH those areas, you'd have to go around. So add distance to that. And take into account there is no current infrastructure there for an entrance...in either place. So you're reducing the "practicality of building" by even more..

not sure what in the world you are looking at, must be some imaginary map with your made up buildings on them. I clearly stated the water plant would have to be worked around THATS IT, ONE BUILDING

Again, realistically you're talking about 25 minutes for a healthy, average, adult pedestrian. Not a stroller pushing, ladened down, or "older" pedestrian. Not a pedestrian herding children. Just someone out of an average paced walk. Just to be clear..

nope disagree again--1 mile can eaily be done in under 20 minutes walking, by just about any average adult.
that arguement can go against anything and everything at Disney so I dont buy it

I wouldn't be. And I like to walk. I can't tell you what anyone else's reaction would be...and neither can you. I CAN tell you that Disney has volumes of guest satisfaction survey research and they don't seem to think enough people would be jumping on the option...

cool lets see the surveys and the results if you CAN tell me that

truth is you are leaning on just as many rumors as anyone else who is for the path

No, not the average. The MAX it's taken is 10 minutes. MAX. I'd say average is closer to 7 or 8, maybe a bit less. You're talking about 2.25 miles from AKL's bus stop to AK's bus stop (including crossing the parking lot, etc)...

now I am starting to serioulsy doubt the rest of your facts if you are saying the max time is 10 minutes ---EVER. walk to stop included, wait, ride, walk into park, BOLOGNA!!!!!

I'd take my chances with the bus vs a 25 min walk, considering what I know of the disney bus system. Unless the bus literally just pulled away, I'm going to get to AK quicker via bus more often than not. That's simple odds and logic. I'm not, certainly, going to challenge the odds that I might save 3 or 4 minutes on the OFF chance the bus just pulled away. That makes no sense.

thats great, again thats you and you alone, thats not fact based on any survey of the population! FACT is people LOVE the OPTION of being able to walk, whether the do or not doesnt matter a hill of beans

 

[sjdisneywedding]

You have to appeal to ENOUGH people to make it worthwhile. A niche product (in terms of appeal) isn't going to be worhtwhile.

And while I can't prove it won't appeal to enough people, but you can't prove it will.

What we know is Disney hasn't done it, and they have FAR more info on the subject than we do. Beyond that, as I've said, we'll need to agree to disagree on this point.

One thing though: Sales and booking rate are certainly a good indication that people are happy with the resorts current setup and offerings.

who cares what Disney has for info on the subject, Im sure they have a million surveys and all different results. just because something hasnt been done yet doesnt mean its reason for it not to be in the future

It doesnt even mean that the idea is not widely accepted or wanted/needed. It could just mean it hasnt been the right time

everything I always hear is booking is always down at AKL and attendance has always been well belwo expected at AK. so if thats true there aint no way thats changing unless you start giving something extra

 

[sjdisneywedding]

I have no ideal if the path is feaible or not. I am just curious. In our pre DVC life, DW and I stayed at the Swan Many times. We loved the walk to Epcot. Anyone have any idea how far that is? How about from BCV to the Studios?

its just about a mile, pushing 2 miles to get down to around Spaceship Earth

and wouldnt you know it, theres a big ole water feature right in the middle. I wonder how they managed to construct a walkway in that swampy, lake infested area

 

[pilferk]

not sure what in the world you are looking at, must be some imaginary map with your made up buildings on them. I clearly stated the water plant would have to be worked around THATS IT, ONE BUILDING

Which is what I said....except the water treatment "building" you're referring to is actually "buildings", which is what I said...that, and the fact you'd need to get guests to your starting point. Both true.

nope disagree again--1 mile can eaily be done in under 20 minutes walking, by just about any average adult.
that arguement can go against anything and everything at Disney so I dont buy it

Except we're not talking about 1 mile. We're talking about 1.3 miles. You're using "as the crow files" to get one mile. You can't do that.

cool lets see the surveys and the results if you CAN tell me that

I don't think you're comprehending here. a) Disney has volumes of guest research. b) There is not yet any path.

Or are you assuming that Disney makes decisions that directly go against both their guest research AND cost benefit analysis?

truth is you are leaning on just as many rumors as anyone else who is for the path

I'll grant you I'm making an assumption, but I'm not depending on rumors. I'm depending on Disney's ability to use the VOLUMES of guest satisfaction research they get...rather than unsubstantiated "what if".

now I am starting to serioulsy doubt the rest of your facts if you are saying the max time is 10 minutes ---EVER. walk to stop included, wait, ride, walk into park, BOLOGNA!!!!!

Read what I wrote again, both in this most recent post and the past post. The 10 minutes assumes ONLY the time spent ON the bus itself. Not the wait time for the bus. The walk time to the bus stop is irrelevant, since the stop is directly outside the AKL exit. I would expect any path to only encompass the walk from an AKL exit. And it has only taken, on the bus, MAX 10 minutes from boarding to arrival.

The wait time, as I said, is more of a variable. Assuming a 20 min (which is pretty much the max) wait, it would take a max of about 30 min (we're ignoring statistical aberations like bus breakdowns, etc...just like we'll ignore the same on the walking side), IF you got to the bus stop just as the bus was pulling away. So, in theory, if everything worked against me, it might take me 5 min longer going the bus route...but not usually. There are about 5 minues, in every 30 min cycle, where taking the bus would be a longer trip....so about 1 in 6 odds.

thats great, again thats you and you alone, thats not fact based on any survey of the population! FACT is people LOVE the OPTION of being able to walk, whether the do or not doesnt matter a hill of beans

Prove it. Because unless you can, it's not a fact...it's your opinion. See, that's my point. You can only speak for YOU. Not the rest of the population.

You're basing your assumption of cost/benefit solely on your OPINION. That was my point...and it's no more valid than mine is.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

Nope, nothing really. But then again, I don't see much in that veing for the Poly, GF, or Contemp (the path to MK is pretty short...too short for jogging or real "excersize" level walking). Did I miss something when we stayed at those resorts?

just because they are not at those resorts doesnt mean they shouldnt be at AK. plus the fact you are talking about a couple pretty old resorts, not sure if that was even in the theming of resorts back in the day

Plus the fact that all 3 offer quite a bit of recreational water activities.

today, if you are going to have a RESORT tag on it, you really should be offering up more of the activity type stuff.

I realize its a bit different since it does have the animals but a path certainly would not hurt the AKL/AKV

 

[pilferk]

who cares what Disney has for info on the subject, Im sure they have a million surveys and all different results. just because something hasnt been done yet doesnt mean its reason for it not to be in the future

Ummm...Disney does. And, as they've demonstrated, when they see things in that data that are cost effective and provide them with good value for their investmetn, they do it.

While I agree with the 2nd part, there is the caveat that it has been a pretty long time. AKL has certainly reached maturity. If it hasn't been "the right time" so far, considering the growth of infrastructure around AKL, it's more likely they don't think there IS a right time.

It doesnt even mean that the idea is not widely accepted or wanted/needed. It could just mean it hasnt been the right time

Witness AKV. While it was not built previously, it was planned for during AKL's actual constuction. Infrastructure, trunk lines, etc were all put in place while the initial construction was going on, and land was left to accomodate the new building, with nothing else built to impede on that building.

everything I always hear is booking is always down at AKL and attendance has always been well belwo expected at AK. so if thats true there aint no way thats changing unless you start giving something extra

They handled it differntly. They converted rooms to DVC accomodations, lowering AKL's CRO nventory. Easier solution, and probably more cost effective. It seems to have handled AKL's booking issues, as now there appear to be a lot less openings. We'llh ave to see if that continues.

I hardly think a walking path from AKL would do much for AK's attendance. You have to do more than give a different type of access to people...you have to give them reasons to WANT to access the park.

 

[AKV707]

its just about a mile, pushing 2 miles to get down to around Spaceship Earth

and wouldnt you know it, theres a big ole water feature right in the middle. I wonder how they managed to construct a walkway in that swampy, lake infested area

Well, we have done this walk many times. The boats are available for those who do not wish to walk. The buses are avalable at AKV. The walk from BCV to the Studios also has to be a fairly long trek as well.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

I don't think you're comprehending here. a) Disney has volumes of guest research. b) There is not yet any path.

Or are you assuming that Disney makes decisions that directly go against both their guest research AND cost benefit analysis?.

ok, I am saying that the research doesnt matter becuase even if it proved a path was wanted, it still doesnt mean they would put it in. So just becuase it is not in doesn not mean it is not wanted.

Prove it. Because unless you can, it's not a fact...it's your opinion. See, that's my point. You can only speak for YOU. Not the rest of the population.

You're basing your assumption of cost/benefit solely on your OPINION. That was my point...and it's no more valid than mine is.

prove that people love to walk/jog/bike? ummm I guess just take a look around at the world today. Im not speaking for me, because to be quite honest I really dont care for any of the 3 while on vacation. But even so I care even less for busses jammed with sweaty people that may or may not be on time.

Also on the wait time we differ in opinion because I dont expect the path to start at the front door. I would expect it to be in the rear, regardless of what you say about being possible or not. There is plenty of room there.

Its like saying you start the walk from BW at the front of the building.

 

[pilferk]

ok, I am saying that the research doesnt matter becuase even if it proved a path was wanted, it still doesnt mean they would put it in. So just becuase it is not in doesn not mean it is not wanted.

And what I'm saying is the fact that the path isn't there is more compelling than simple opinion that it might be beneficial enough to warrent it. Is it the end all be all in the discussion? No. But it's more compelling, I think, than simply pointing and saying "I think Disney should build it because people will like it".

prove that people love to walk/jog/bike? ummm I guess just take a look around at the world today. Im not speaking for me, because to be quite honest I really dont care for any of the 3 while on vacation. But even so I care even less for busses jammed with sweaty people that may or may not be on time.

Which isn't proof. And it's not proving that people like to "walk/jog/bike". It's prove they want to "walk/jog/bike" in sufficient numbers, at AKL, to warrant building a path. Your question was "Who wouldn't JUMP at that option". I said I wouldn't (which you didn't like), but my point was you simply can't speak for everyone and assume they all want the option you're pushing.

Also on the wait time we differ in opinion because I dont expect the path to start at the front door. I would expect it to be in the rear, regardless of what you say about being possible or not. There is plenty of room there.

Its like saying you start the walk from BW at the front of the building.

Not the front door, necessarily. ANY door. Heck, any exit from the lodge. You can't simply start a path in a the middle of nowhere. You have to make it accessible to be useable. You're setting it about a 1/4 mile (at least) from the nearest exit from the lodge...and that exit is at the back, on the outcropping. You certainly can't traipse guests down the middle of the savannah to get to the path...you have to create a path to get to your "path". So really, the entirety of that would be considered "the path". And it needs to work within the existing lodge's setup. Room isn't the entirety of the problem...it's just part of it.

Outline how you think it would be possible, keeping in mind the existing lodge's set up and facilities. Because getting guests to the point you have on the map looks like a logistical nightmare to me....

 

[pilferk]

just because they are not at those resorts doesnt mean they shouldnt be at AK. plus the fact you are talking about a couple pretty old resorts, not sure if that was even in the theming of resorts back in the day

I was simply answering the OP's question and putting the answer in the context of the rest of the resort.

Oh, and to add: WL doesn't have one, either...though being adjacent to FW gives them one by association, I suppose.

Plus the fact that all 3 offer quite a bit of recreational water activities.

today, if you are going to have a RESORT tag on it, you really should be offering up more of the activity type stuff.

I realize its a bit different since it does have the animals but a path certainly would not hurt the AKL/AKV

AKL has numerous activities, many relating to the animals and the cultures it celebrates. That's the resorts forte' and is consistent with some of the real game lodge's in Africa.

The question isn't (and here's the issue with your perspective) that "a path wouldn't hurt". It's "would a path help in any real tangible way to the point it offsets the costs of that path".

There has to be a REASON (beyond someone simply saying "I think people might like it) to add it.

 

[crisi]

A path at Disney is also likely to meander - which will add distance - they seldom build in a straight line. Also you can expect a little distance in that Disney is unlikely to skirt too close to "offstage" areas (though they've done it before, you go backstage leaving Fantasmic) And any path that goes close to the animals will require security to monitor it - that will add ongoing operational cost that the path between BWV and MGM wouldn't have.

A path would be cool, but I think it isn't terribly likely. I'd love to be wrong.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

I was simply answering the OP's question and putting the answer in the context of the rest of the resort.

Oh, and to add: WL doesn't have one, either...though being adjacent to FW gives them one by association, I suppose.



AKL has numerous activities, many relating to the animals and the cultures it celebrates. That's the resorts forte' and is consistent with some of the real game lodge's in Africa.

The question isn't (and here's the issue with your perspective) that "a path wouldn't hurt". It's "would a path help in any real tangible way to the point it offsets the costs of that path".

There has to be a REASON (beyond someone simply saying "I think people might like it) to add it.

boy you are all over the place

BTW the WL most certainly does have one and I already said I know about the activities at AKL with animals. point being you have to offer more than that, hence the low occupancy. it only goes so far.

You want to be looked at as a top resort than act like it and have the amenities, pure and simply



I am point blank saying the path would be GREAT for the AKV/AKL and AK itself

I am not saying people MAY like it. I am saying people will like it. Period. Not my observation, not my feeling, not a rumor. Its a plain out and out fact.

 

[Anthony1971]

I did not read everything... I can see how a path would be nice to AK and I am sure some people would use it on occasion going to AK but leaving I would question.. I would sooner pay for a cab it is hot and humid at AK with very places to sit in the AC for while. I also do not see how it would improve the numbers. As far as people using the path I rarely see anyone on the path to MGM from BW, BC etc. nor the path to DTD being used from SSR or OKW and for that fact there is a good number of people who take the boat to EPCOT from BW.... As far as people like to walk wow I am suprised that SSR and OKW and not booked solid all I see is compliants about the size and 1/4 mile 30 minute walk to the HH.

 

[keishashadow]

Officially it is listed as a Contemporary expansion project which probably allows them to go either way. Not that I think it will be anything but DVC as I was told what the next Disney resort project would be and it was not Contemporary.

do you mean GC?

if not, want to share with a few hundred of your bestest buds? jk, know you are a great wealth of info ; don't want to compromise you.

Do you know if the "Contemporary expansion project" was announced via a press release to general public or would it just be the permit filings that have been dredged up? just would like to dig around a bit.

 

[tjkraz]

I am point blank saying the path would be GREAT for the AKV/AKL and AK itself

I am not saying people MAY like it. I am saying people will like it. Period. Not my observation, not my feeling, not a rumor. Its a plain out and out fact.

You know what else would be great? Helicopters that pick-up guests at the AKL entrance and drop them off outside the DAK gate. I bet people would LOVE that! Let's make sure Disney surveys guests on that one!

Oh, waitaminit. Disney's isn't actually going to implement helicopter transportation. Never mind, then.

The problem here is that guest response isn't the be-all, end-all to discussions of whether Disney will spend money on a project. Sometimes the things that people latch onto aren't even practical. A prime example is resort-wide monorail transportation. It SOUNDS great, but once you start getting into the logistics of it, the entire project crumbles.

Similarly a walking path SOUNDS great in the abstract, but the finished product still must deliver. The Epcot resort area "works" not just because paths exist but because of the way it is delivered. The walk from the Swan to Epcot may be on the longish side, but at least Disney has provided the appeal of the BoardWalk and Yacht/Beach Clubs. Before those resorts opened Disney ran trams from the Dolphin and Swan to Epcot because they didn't expect people to walk the distance.

If a path is part of additional development in that area, I can see it "working." But I don't see Disney blazing a trail in the wilderness and reconfiguring DAK's service areas just so they can say "hey, we've got a path here, too!"