Harvey Weinstein

[Hikergirl]

While money is probably a factor, fear of how he can run their lives is probably a big reason also. It's not just giving up being in his movies and making money. A man with his power and connections can absolutely ruin someone. He knows how to plant stories and which stories to plant. That alone can ruin someone.
He had the high powered lawyer to tie you up in lawsuits and completely season your finances.
Also, look at how people who speak up about such things are often treated for speaking up. They are ripped apart and called all kinds of names.
I don't think it's just a biting the hand the feds you thing.

I'm not talking about his unsuspecting victims, I'm talking about all the people who knew exactly what he was doing to his victims and never once said anything to anyone. They continued to watch female actresses come and go for parts in his movies, they knew what was going on but didn't care enough because they worked for his company and he signed their checks. Or he produced their movies, let them star in and sign their checks. Some of these people coming out and pretending to be appalled are just as rich and powerful in Hollywood as he is, so what is their excuse for never saying anything? They'd still be silent today if this story didn't make the news.
Now, there are a few women coming out that I do question, not that I don't believe their account of what happened, but wondering why they never bothered to speak out well after they became A-listers. They were definitely in a position to be believed and keep him from doing it to the new generation of actresses trying to get to the A-list. I won't blame them for what happened to themselves or other girls, but by staying silent IMO they condoned his behavior all these years.

 

[NotUrsula]

It's about power more than it is about money, because in the film industry, influence begets money, and talent begets influence. Weinstein is an agent and a producer; he had enough power to get projects funded and to bring certain people to those projects, and he knows how to exert pressure in all the right places when things don't go his way. (And just because he isn't part of the Weinstein Company any longer, doesn't mean he cannot go on doing what he does for a living, though not with the kind of power that he once had. There are an awful lot of folks in the film industry, especially abroad, who will hold their noses and work with him anyway, because he has an undeniable talent for spotting scripts that can be made into films that win awards.) His style of film making is a bit on the decline in Hollywood right now, which finally made him vulnerable enough to go after. It's also worth noting that the reporter who blew it open was Ronan Farrow, himself a scion of Hollywood royalty, and thus an insider that people in the industry were more likely to trust. (Ronan Farrow being the son of Mia Farrow and Woody Allen, who changed his name because he couldn't stand being associated with Allen any longer.)

This is a very interesting bite from yesterday's story in the Los Angeles Times http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-et-mn-harvey-weinstein-rise-fall-20171008-story.html :

Actor Daniel Day-Lewis, who won his first Oscar for 1990’s “My Left Foot,” told Weinstein, “There’s only one part of you that works — the ability to pick scripts and pick movies. Otherwise, you’re a complete disaster as a person.” Tellingly, it was a quote Weinstein often repeated with pride.

Apparently, everyone who ever worked with Harvey Weinstein knew he was a pig, but a pig that got very good results. The casting couches of Hollywood have long been ugly legend, and I'm pretty sure that in an industry that puts so much value on youth and beauty, there will always be young people who will be desperate enough for fame that they will accede to such demands. Hopefully such predators will now be prevented from reaching positions of industry-wide influence, but, sadly, I'm not really counting on it.

 

[lisaviolet]

It's really really really challenging to remain optimistic at present, so I see this as a "small victory" and want to at least appreciate it.

It definitely feels like things might be shifting. I am optimistic that this is going to bring a lot more into the light.

 

[JaxDad]

According to TMZ he is off to Europe to go to a live in rehab center to deal with his sex addiction and other behavorial problems.
He will make a return to Hollywood and all will be forgiven I'm sure.

I have not seen the actual country in Europe mentioned, which makes me wonder if potential extradition was a consideration???

 

[sunshinehighway]

I'm not talking about his unsuspecting victims, I'm talking about all the people who knew exactly what he was doing to his victims and never once said anything to anyone. They continued to watch female actresses come and go for parts in his movies, they knew what was going on but didn't care enough because they worked for his company and he signed their checks. Or he produced their movies, let them star in and sign their checks. Some of these people coming out and pretending to be appalled are just as rich and powerful in Hollywood as he is, so what is their excuse for never saying anything? They'd still be silent today if this story didn't make the news.
Now, there are a few women coming out that I do question, not that I don't believe their account of what happened, but wondering why they never bothered to speak out well after they became A-listers. They were definitely in a position to be believed and keep him from doing it to the new generation of actresses trying to get to the A-list. I won't blame them for what happened to themselves or other girls, but by staying silent IMO they condoned his behavior all these years.

I agree that there's a lot of bs with Hollywood people acting shocked and appalled when it apparently was well know.
I can't agree with you blaming victims for not speaking out though. It's not as simple as it seems from afar.

 

[mnrose]

Can someone explain to me why they openly get away with this? Can we just admit that this part of the problem?

Part of the problem is that, in general, women are not believed. It happens over and over and over.

 

[Hikergirl]

I agree that there's a lot of bs with Hollywood people acting shocked and appalled when it apparently was well know.
I can't agree with you blaming victims for not speaking out though. It's not as simple as it seems from afar.

I don't think it is simple at all, but I stand by my statement that the most famous A-lister millionaire victims condoned his behavior for the last 20 years by not speaking out. I mean one even spoke at the UN about sexual abuse. Ashley Judd wrote a book in 2011 about her sexual abuse as a child. Yet neither of these women ever spoke out about HW before this? Yes that does make me question why they would stay silent all these years. If protecting women was something they felt so passionately about enough to speak out about it in those ways, why not ever speak about what was done to them by him?

You know what I can at least admit that I am jumping to conclusions. Maybe they did speak out but nobody ever listened because of who he is.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I don't think it is simple at all, but I stand by my statement that the most famous A-lister millionaire victims condoned his behavior for the last 20 years by not speaking out. I mean one even spoke at the UN about sexual abuse. Ashley Judd wrote a book in 2011 about her sexual abuse as a child. Yet neither of these women ever spoke out about HW before this? Yes that does make me question why they would stay silent all these years. If protecting women was something they felt so passionately about enough to speak out about it in those ways, why not ever speak about what was done to them by him?

Fear? Fear of retaliation, fear of how they will be judged, fear they will lose the careers they've worked so long to build. Fear that even if they speak up and lose everything, it won't matter, they won't be believed, nobody will care enough to do anything.

 

[sduck]

My brother-in-law worked for him way back in the day. Back then the harassment happened everywhere and people used it to their advantage. No one said a thing. It was the way to get ahead, tickets, a part, anything. Times changed, Weinstein never did. In my opinion it was always a horrible ugly way to do business.

 

[Hikergirl]

Fear? Fear of retaliation, fear of how they will be judged, fear they will lose the careers they've worked so long to build. Fear that even if they speak up and lose everything, it won't matter, they won't be believed, nobody will care enough to do anything.

Maybe, maybe its other reasons. These are public figures who have spoken out against sexual abuse before so I have no qualms about questioning why they never spoke out about him before now.

 

[lisaviolet]

Maybe, maybe its other reasons. These are public figures who have spoken out against sexual abuse before so I have no qualms about questioning why they never spoke out about him before now.

Your thought process is interesting Hikergirl.

When you asked the question why didn't they speak out I was actually about to answer that maybe some of them had sexual abuse or sexual assault in their past, before Harvey Weinstein --- in addition to other possible reasons that have already been listed.

You see it as a reason to speak out. I see it as a valid possible reason why some did not say a thing.

 

[cabanafrau]

Maybe, maybe its other reasons. These are public figures who have spoken out against sexual abuse before so I have no qualms about questioning why they never spoke out about him before now.

I think it's really dangerous to hold potential victims up to the scrutiny of trial by public and judge them on the basis of news coverage, rumor and innuendo. By all means, pile another layer of bricks on their shoulders for them to carry in an attempt to tell their story. No need to have actual factual evidence, or even a vague idea whether or not the news stories we've read or heard are anywhere near a comprehensive view of their circumstances -- just toss some scorn and doubt their way.

 

[Hikergirl]

Your thought process is interesting Hikergirl.

When you asked the question why didn't they speak out I was actually about it answer that maybe some of them had sexual abuse or sexual assault in their past, before Harvey Weinstein.

You see it as a reason to speak out. I see it as a valid possible reason why some did not to say a thing.

For Ashley Judd I see it as a reason because she herself spoke about her own sexual abuse as a child in a book she wrote around 2011.
Angelina Jolie spoke about sexual abuse against refugees by soldiers (or something to that effect), not her own.
My point is that these 2 women in particular seem to want to shed light on the problem, and I assume it is to help victims. So yes I do wonder why in all these years since their encounter with HW did they not speak out, especially since his behavior was known among the Hollywood people.

 

[Hikergirl]

I think it's really dangerous to hold potential victims up to the scrutiny of trial by public and judge them on the basis of news coverage, rumor and innuendo. By all means, pile another layer of bricks on their shoulders for them to carry in an attempt to tell their story. No need to have actual factual evidence, or even a vague idea whether or not the news stories we've read or heard are anywhere near a comprehensive view of their circumstances -- just toss some scorn and doubt their way.

Are you talking about Weinstein here? Does he get that luxury too?



I don't follow the Hollywood hypocrites as blindly as others do.

 

[lisaviolet]

For Ashley Judd I see it as a reason because she herself spoke about her own sexual abuse as a child in a book she wrote around 2011.
Angelina Jolie spoke about sexual abuse against refugees by soldiers (or something to that effect), not her own.
My point is that these 2 women in particular seem to want to shed light on the problem, and I assume it is to help victims. So yes I do wonder why in all these years since their encounter with HW did they not speak out, especially since his behavior was known among the Hollywood people.

I was trying to gently explain something to you Hikergirl. So now I will be way more frank. And to hell with anyone who feels uncomfortable.

Previous sexual assault and especially childhood sexual abuse can, and can is an important word because of course not everyone reacts the same, produce a myriad of issues:

*a brain that thinks differently - a brain that is changed for life
*a distrust of speaking out especially if you were not believed previously
*a distrust of the police - a distrust of the legal system if it didn't go well at any point and it can really screw up one's life no matter how many people say go to the police - take him/her to court. One can easily be re-victimized during this process even by people who have good intent. Look at the girl who agreed to the sting Hikergirl. Where did all her vulnerability/work go? Um nowhere. I'm sure she will be so willing to speak out a second time if it ever happens to her again
*not clearly seeing your perpetrator as vile as he/she is and maybe even not as a criminal
*sometimes almost feeling protective of *******s (I do realize that this is hard to hear and understand)
*a feeling that you did something inappropriate or wrong - a trying to rethink the situation
*a feeling of stupidity that you are again in such a situation, ridiculous as that sounds
*and sometimes feeling that some things are just "normal" if it happens early in life or often enough

Now I have no clue about any of the victims of Harvey Weinstein. This is not me insinuating that they have abuse or assault in their past. At all. I am only speaking out about your frustration with Ashley Judd. And the why - why - why especially with her when she is a victim.

Other people also gave valid reasons why people might not speak out.

And by the way Ashley Judd has enough balls for a thousand women.

 

[Hikergirl]

I was trying to gently explain something to you Hikergirl. So now I will be way more frank. And to hell with anyone who feels uncomfortable.

Previous sexual assault and especially childhood sexual abuse can, and can is an important word because of course not everyone reacts the same, produce a myriad of issues:

*a brain that thinks differently - a brain that is changed for life
*a distrust of speaking out especially if you were not believed previously
*a distrust of the police - a distrust of the legal system if it didn't go well at any point and it can really screw up one's life no matter how many people say go to the police - take him/her to court. One can easily be re-victimized during this process even by people who have good intent. Look at the girl who agreed to the sting Hikergirl. Where did all her vulnerability/work go? Um nowhere. I'm sure she will be so willing to speak out a second time
*not clearly seeing your perpetrator as vile as he/she is and maybe even not as a criminal
*sometimes almost feeling protective of *******s (I do realize that this is hard to hear and understand)
*a feeling that you did something inappropriate or wrong - a trying to rethink the situation
*a feeling of stupidity that you are again in such a situation, ridiculous as that sounds
*and sometimes feeling that some things are just "normal" if it happens early in life or often enough

Now I have no clue about any of these victims of Harvey Weinstein. This is not me insinuating that they have abuse or assault in their past. I am only speaking out about your frustration with Ashley Judd. And the why - why - why especially with her when she is a victim.

Other people also gave valid reasons why people might not speak out.

And by the way Ashley Judd has enough balls for a thousand women.

You do realize that none of us here know the reasons, so mine are just as valid as anyone elses.
But I guess you know more than I do, I didn't realize Ashley Judd was a man.

 

[lisaviolet]

You do realize that none of us here know the reasons, so mine are just as valid as anyone elses.
But I guess you know more than I do, I didn't realize Ashley Judd was a man.

Lovely.

And do know I am laughing. Unbelievable.

And yes I do realize that none of us here know the reasons, how can we? I think I said that. I certainly don't know the reasons. I clearly said I was only speaking of your questioning Ashley Judd being a victim of sexual abuse and not speaking out. You seem dumbfounded that she, as someone who speaks out about her own abuse, took so long to speak out about Harvey Weinstein.

 

[NotUrsula]

FYI, in an amazing coincidence of timing, NBC's comedy Great News is airing an episode on Thursday, October 12 that is apparently a gender-reversal parody of the Weinstein situation and others like it. (The episode was filmed quite a while ago, and has been in this spot on the schedule since the beginning of the season.) In it, Tina Fey stars as a news executive who forces men who work for her to do certain (rather silly, because it's network TV) things for her gratification, and when they complain about her behavior, they are not believed.

I've never seen this show (I'm more of a reader), but I do believe that I will watch this one. The role reversal promises to be funny -- and uncomfortable for a lot of people. The episode airs at 8:30 CT.

(It has been noted that Tina Fey has used Weinstein's reputation as joke fodder before. There were two different jokes about him on 30 Rock over the years. Was she wrong to joke about it and not say something outright? Maybe, but sometimes humor is a good way to make people see something in a way that they hadn't considered before, without the defensiveness that often results from a bald challenge.)

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

Maybe, maybe its other reasons. These are public figures who have spoken out against sexual abuse before so I have no qualms about questioning why they never spoke out about him before now.

From what I read after her encounter Anjolina Jolie refused to work with him and warned other actresses what happened to her. Keep in mind we really don't know the extent that happened to her so speaking out and saying something publicaly when a crime might not have been comitted to her might be close to slander. She's like she took appropriate steps.

 

[adelaster]

I was trying to gently explain something to you Hikergirl. So now I will be way more frank. And to hell with anyone who feels uncomfortable.

Previous sexual assault and especially childhood sexual abuse can, and can is an important word because of course not everyone reacts the same, produce a myriad of issues:

*a brain that thinks differently - a brain that is changed for life
*a distrust of speaking out especially if you were not believed previously
*a distrust of the police - a distrust of the legal system if it didn't go well at any point and it can really screw up one's life no matter how many people say go to the police - take him/her to court. One can easily be re-victimized during this process even by people who have good intent. Look at the girl who agreed to the sting Hikergirl. Where did all her vulnerability/work go? Um nowhere. I'm sure she will be so willing to speak out a second time
*not clearly seeing your perpetrator as vile as he/she is and maybe even not as a criminal
*sometimes almost feeling protective of *******s (I do realize that this is hard to hear and understand)
*a feeling that you did something inappropriate or wrong - a trying to rethink the situation
*a feeling of stupidity that you are again in such a situation, ridiculous as that sounds
*and sometimes feeling that some things are just "normal" if it happens early in life or often enough

Now I have no clue about any of these victims of Harvey Weinstein. This is not me insinuating that they have abuse or assault in their past. I am only speaking out about your frustration with Ashley Judd. And the why - why - why especially with her when she is a victim.

Other people also gave valid reasons why people might not speak out.

And by the way Ashley Judd has enough balls for a thousand women.

It's really difficult to speak out against abuse, period. It's hard enough to get away when it's happening, much less let people know that it happened.

There is still a huge stigma around women speaking up against this kind of thing. People question how they were dressed, the situations they put themselves in, the substances they may or may not have been using, that they may be trying to get money or attention, why now and not then, etc. etc.

Statistically speaking most women are sexually harassed at some point in their lives. I know I didn't tell anyone. There are a lot of reasons not to speak up, and many reasons to stay silent. That's why I seeing a community around this kind of thing is so encouraging. If more people spoke up and stood together it would happen less and less. The judgment and isolation is not beneficial to anyone. This is one of those areas where I feel like we are seeing history happen.