Yee Haw Bob Sexual Harrassment

[JerseyJanice]

What exactly would somebody write in an Email to Disney?

“Dear Ms. Crofton: It has come to my attention that MSM was groped by BJ in 2013 and that you have received a photograph that proves it. Disney investigated the incident then and didn’t fire BJ, but now that it’s been put out in the public, that is what you must do.”

I’m not trying to be facetious here. Seriously, what could someone write that doesn’t sound ridiculous?

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

All this blindly believing the accusers is getting ridiculous! Pretty soon every man in a power position will be branded a pervert. Every news story is a new accusation, most several years old. Ridiculous, and I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

I think our society has been blindly believing the accused for far too long. There are a lot of news stories lately that are accusations. All the ones I’ve heard have turned out to be quite true. Most of the time after the women coming forward have been dragged through the mud.

I don’t know these people and either could be lying. I’ve heard your argument several times on this thread (about the poor men in power being defamed). Can you give me a recent example in the news of a man who had his reputation ruined by a false allegation? I may be having a bit of confirmation bias happening but I have only seen the opposite.

The argument about men in power being constant targets is usually trotted out by other men in power as such allegations are proven true. It’s like a weird smoke and mirrors, protect your own thing.

ETA-even when allegations are proven true by a court of law, perpetrators of such crimes are given ridiculously lenient sentences because the judges don’t want to ruin some good man’s life! **Cough cough Brock Turner

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again-I don’t know either of these people. However if I had to say our society (and the world at large) had a false allegation problem or a sexual abuse/harassment/assault problem, I’m going to pick the latter.

 

[mom2rtk]

I think our society has been blindly believing the accused for far too long.

True. But you can't make that better by throwing some other people under the bus now.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

True. But you can't make that better by throwing some other people under the bus now.

IMO it’s not about throwing anybody under the bus at any time. It’s about our constant questioning on whether women (I won’t even get started on the hurdles men face speaking out) have the right to speak out and when. It’s about our gut reaction to protect the good men who do good things from the women who want fame. It’s about our gut reaction to minimize and normalize inappropriate and criminal behavior.

Should every man accused immediately lose their job and be hauled off to jail? Absolutely not. But why as a society do we so vehemently deny that “good” people can commit these heinous crimes and immediately circle the wagons to protect them, especially after all the disgusting and criminal behavior that has come to light lately.

Were all those women throwing Bill Cosby under the bus? Should they have kept silent because they waited too long? They really didn’t have any proof after so many years. Should we assume they’re lying until the court proves him guilty? Bill Cosby will likely be known from here on out for these allegations. Just like OJ, despite what the courts say some people will stick to their opinions. Should his reputation be protected?

Looking at the bigger picture of sexual assault, harassment, and rape allegations I find the comments suggesting women can only speak up for a certain amount of time or in the moment really disturbing. I also find the idea that women must be able to show indisputable proof before speaking out disturbing. This is the kind of thinking that allows thes predators to victimize over decades.

 

[mom2rtk]

IMO it’s not about throwing anybody under the bus at any time. It’s about our constant questioning on whether women (I won’t even get started on the hurdles men face speaking out) have the right to speak out and when. It’s about our gut reaction to protect the good men who do good things from the women who want fame. It’s about our gut reaction to minimize and normalize inappropriate and criminal behavior.

Should every man accused immediately lose their job and be hauled off to jail? Absolutely not. But why as a society do we so vehemently deny that “good” people can commit these heinous crimes and immediately circle the wagons to protect them, especially after all the disgusting and criminal behavior that has come to light lately.

Were all those women throwing Bill Cosby under the bus? Should they have kept silent because they waited too long? They really didn’t have any proof after so many years. Should we assume they’re lying until the court proves him guilty? Bill Cosby will likely be known from here on out for these allegations. Just like OJ, despite what the courts say some people will stick to their opinions. Should his reputation be protected?

Looking at the bigger picture of sexual assault, harassment, and rape allegations I find the comments suggesting women can only speak up for a certain amount of time or in the moment really disturbing. I also find the idea that women must be able to show indisputable proof before speaking out disturbing. This is the kind of thinking that allows thes predators to victimize over decades.

Your comment was in rebuttal to someone criticizing blindly blaming accusers. Please don't try to paint my comment as some sort of defense of Bill Cosby. I'm only saying that blindly believing any group is wrong.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

Your comment was in rebuttal to someone criticizing blindly blaming accusers. Please don't try to paint my comment as some sort of defense of Bill Cosby. I'm only saying that blindly believing any group is wrong.

I’m not trying to paint your comment as anything. I quoted a response from you that we won’t solve the accused being believed by throwing others under the bus now. Sure blindly believing and group is wrong, but in these (or any criminal allegations) people will speculate on what they think really happened. This threads leans heavily towards Bob is the real victim, she wants fame, every man is a target, it was just a butt grab (if it even happened) give me a break. This is the general reaction to most accusations of sexual impropriety and I think as a society we should be more aware of why.

I was engaging with that aspect of the conversation trying to parse out what throwing somebody under the bus looks like in such matters. Nothing is black and white in these cases. This “was just a butt grab” as many people have said. But what about when it’s not? What about when it’s accusations of drugging and rape (Bill Cosby)? Does that change the stakes or is it still throwing somebody under the bus to speak out years later?

I’m not even necessarily asking for your personal response. I’m joining the conversation like everybody else. I’m speaking broadly and hope to maybe get somebody to think about more deeply or even explain here why the phenomenon of condemning the people who come forward is our gut reaction.

 

[andrewilley]

Please guys, could we try to keep this on-topic? This thread isn't about other cases such as Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein or any other perpetrators of abuse and abhorrent behaviour. It's about some specific allegations made by Michelle Scribner-MacLean (and supported by Mike Scopa) against Bob Jackson. It would be really helpful in order to keep this followable if everyone could try to stick to the facts in hand - which admittedly are currently pretty sketchy - rather than going too far off into other matters. Thanks.

Andre

 

[AngiTN]

I think our society has been blindly believing the accused for far too long. There are a lot of news stories lately that are accusations. All the ones I’ve heard have turned out to be quite true. Most of the time after the women coming forward have been dragged through the mud.

I don’t know these people and either could be lying. I’ve heard your argument several times on this thread (about the poor men in power being defamed). Can you give me a recent example in the news of a man who had his reputation ruined by a false allegation? I may be having a bit of confirmation bias happening but I have only seen the opposite.

The argument about men in power being constant targets is usually trotted out by other men in power as such allegations are proven true. It’s like a weird smoke and mirrors, protect your own thing.

ETA-even when allegations are proven true by a court of law, perpetrators of such crimes are given ridiculously lenient sentences because the judges don’t want to ruin some good man’s life! **Cough cough Brock Turner

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again-I don’t know either of these people. However if I had to say our society (and the world at large) had a false allegation problem or a sexual abuse/harassment/assault problem, I’m going to pick the latter.

I’m not trying to paint your comment as anything. I quoted a response from you that we won’t solve the accused being believed by throwing others under the bus now. Sure blindly believing and group is wrong, but in these (or any criminal allegations) people will speculate on what they think really happened. This threads leans heavily towards Bob is the real victim, she wants fame, every man is a target, it was just a butt grab (if it even happened) give me a break. This is the general reaction to most accusations of sexual impropriety and I think as a society we should be more aware of why.

I was engaging with that aspect of the conversation trying to parse out what throwing somebody under the bus looks like in such matters. Nothing is black and white in these cases. This “was just a butt grab” as many people have said. But what about when it’s not? What about when it’s accusations of drugging and rape (Bill Cosby)? Does that change the stakes or is it still throwing somebody under the bus to speak out years later?

I’m not even necessarily asking for your personal response. I’m joining the conversation like everybody else. I’m speaking broadly and hope to maybe get somebody to think about more deeply or even explain here why the phenomenon of condemning the people who come forward is our gut reaction.

I think you are off base to take that any who doubt Michelle's story to mean they doubt all women's stories. Best I can remember, this is the first time I've been on the side of the accused and not the side of the accuser, from the start. My side has changed as more info came out. And it may this time. But right now, with the info we have been given, it's no where near enough to launch in to a smear campaign to ruin the career, and possibly the life, of a man. That, is the bottom line of it all for me. Her story is simply not currently believable as stated and she wants too much without providing more to warrant it. And that's directly to this case, not any others current or to come.

I have never said, and I think very few if any have, that no woman should be believed. Trying not to go off in to specifics, there are plenty of cases where the stories presented by the abused/assaulted are viable stories without tremendous holes and it's clear their side of the story has substance. That is just not the case in this instance.

I do stand by the statements I've made that we should never just blatantly believe accused, just because they are the accused or the accuser, just because they are the accuser. Every case has got to be analyzed on it's own merits. There have been false accusations on both sides. It does disturb me that when someone is accused it's front page news but if an accused is found to be innocent it's often last past news and no few ever see that. You can't undo the accusation

 

[JerseyJanice]

Imagine how to describe in an Email that you know there was a photograph that supposedly proves this accusation, but you haven’t seen it, nor has the accuser. And you’re sure that Disney has seen it yet continues to employ a creep who paws at random female guests?

The whole thing is absurd.

 

[Hikergirl]

I think you are off base to take that any who doubt Michelle's story to mean they doubt all women's stories. Best I can remember, this is the first time I've been on the side of the accused and not the side of the accuser, from the start. My side has changed as more info came out. And it may this time. But right now, with the info we have been given, it's no where near enough to launch in to a smear campaign to ruin the career, and possibly the life, of a man. That, is the bottom line of it all for me. Her story is simply not currently believable as stated and she wants too much without providing more to warrant it. And that's directly to this case, not any others current or to come.

I have never said, and I think very few if any have, that no woman should be believed. Trying not to go off in to specifics, there are plenty of cases where the stories presented by the abused/assaulted are viable stories without tremendous holes and it's clear their side of the story has substance. That is just not the case in this instance.

I do stand by the statements I've made that we should never just blatantly believe accused, just because they are the accused or the accuser, just because they are the accuser. Every case has got to be analyzed on it's own merits. There have been false accusations on both sides. It does disturb me that when someone is accused it's front page news but if an accused is found to be innocent it's often last past news and no few ever see that. You can't undo the accusation

Very well said.

 

[kellyarms20]

The #metoo movement is good in the sense that it raises awareness of rampant harassment that happens in this country every day. In my mind though, people who are using it that I have sympathy for are people who previously felt like they didn't have a voice, that they'd be persecuted in some way, (professionally or socially), if they complained. That's not the case here. She had a voice and used it at the appropriate time. If it wasn't resolved to her satisfaction then, she should have escalated it. It seems unsavory to bring it back up now.

 

[AngiTN]

Something else that has just struck me as different about this case.
And not to bring up other cases directly (as I agree with Andre) but this does apply here, others with direct and admitted to cases of assault and/or abuse haven't asked for public smear campaigns against their abusers.
They related their stories and let the story itself be the weapon against the accused. That's all that was needed. Those careers tanked because of it, you didn't need a write in campaign.
Michelle has gone about this totally different, she's asked for everyone to join her in a smear campaign mostly on pure faith and she didn't even really relate much of a story first.

 

[LSUmiss]

IMO it’s not about throwing anybody under the bus at any time. It’s about our constant questioning on whether women (I won’t even get started on the hurdles men face speaking out) have the right to speak out and when. It’s about our gut reaction to protect the good men who do good things from the women who want fame. It’s about our gut reaction to minimize and normalize inappropriate and criminal behavior.

Should every man accused immediately lose their job and be hauled off to jail? Absolutely not. But why as a society do we so vehemently deny that “good” people can commit these heinous crimes and immediately circle the wagons to protect them, especially after all the disgusting and criminal behavior that has come to light lately.

Were all those women throwing Bill Cosby under the bus? Should they have kept silent because they waited too long? They really didn’t have any proof after so many years. Should we assume they’re lying until the court proves him guilty? Bill Cosby will likely be known from here on out for these allegations. Just like OJ, despite what the courts say some people will stick to their opinions. Should his reputation be protected?

Looking at the bigger picture of sexual assault, harassment, and rape allegations I find the comments suggesting women can only speak up for a certain amount of time or in the moment really disturbing. I also find the idea that women must be able to show indisputable proof before speaking out disturbing. This is the kind of thinking that allows thes predators to victimize over decades.

I think the reason is b/c our justice system is designed that one is innocent until proven guilty. I think many of us naturally judge things that way b/c that’s what we are used to the standard being. For me, the “proof” I need is multiple similar allegations. I am always hesitant to believe any first & only allegation of anything w/o proof.

 

[disneyland_is_magic]

I was so relieved to see so much level headed consideration here on both sides. I am glad there is no pitchforks and torches to be found quite yet.
I am keeping an open mind. I will listen to any women's story with great consideration. I think many will.
Bob received his Legacy award in Feb 2013, based on the podcast the only race Michelle ran before then was the Marathon in Jan. They did several podcasts recapping it and I imagine mountains of social media. She was there with several friends who were running the half. That would make that part of her story truthful and make it almost 5 years.
Here is where my doubt comes in. In October she returned and ran the TT, she mentions riding the bus from PO so I am guessing she stayed there again. If I had been assaulted by an employee and reported it to hotel management and felt they hadn't followed through, it's very difficult for me to imagine returning to that same hotel only months later.
I don't know. I think something happened (unintentional or intentional) in Jan, and I think time or something else has made it worse.
I think that's all I want to say on the matter.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I’m not real good in the Twitter Universe but I swear I just saw that MSM is rewtweeting NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON tweets. Does she not know the man has been accused of rape? Drugging & raping a former classmate. Should she not be tweeting demands that he be fired from the Hayden Planetarium. Or did I miss those? As I said I’m not real good with Twitter. Not saying he’s guilty, I really like the man. Just saying...

Well, maybe she hadn't heard that. Because I hadn't until just now.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

I think the reason is b/c our justice system is designed that one is innocent until proven guilty. I think many of us naturally judge things that way b/c that’s what we are used to the standard being. For me, the “proof” I need is multiple similar allegations. I am always hesitant to believe any first & only allegation of anything w/o proof.

I think in a similar way.

I tend to want a preponderance of evidence before I am willing to even think about jumping on any bandwagon.

And I admit, I do have a problem with people coming forward years after the situation. Mainly because it is very difficult to defend against allegations from 5, 10, 20 or even 30 years ago.

In my opinion, there is a point where you just don't hold any credibility. Sure talk about. But trying to rally the troops to attack? That, in my opinion, is going too far.

 

[AngiTN]

I think in a similar way.

I tend to want a preponderance of evidence before I am willing to even think about jumping on any bandwagon.

And I admit, I do have a problem with people coming forward years after the situation. Mainly because it is very difficult to defend against allegations from 5, 10, 20 or even 30 years ago.

In my opinion, there is a point where you just don't hold any credibility. Sure talk about. But trying to rally the troops to attack? That, in my opinion, is going too far.

You can't help but wonder if she's blown what happened up in her mind to be way more than it was in reality. No way to know for certain of course just going on other instances in my own memory. As much as we like to think we are remembering things exactly as they happened, time tends to alter things. She was obviously bothered some by it at the time but has it maybe also grown in her mind since? If she saw that photo now would she remember it differently or the same?

 

[smokeyblue]

You can't help but wonder if she's blown what happened up in her mind to be way more than it was in reality. No way to know for certain of course just going on other instances in my own memory. As much as we like to think we are remembering things exactly as they happened, time tends to alter things. She was obviously bothered some by it at the time but has it maybe also grown in her mind since? If she saw that photo now would she remember it differently or the same?

I think this is a good possibility. Like I've already said, I think her only recourse at this point is within her own self. She undoubtedly still feels wronged and violated, but it seems like it's so much to the point that she is hell bent on self-destruction and the destruction of others. It's time that she works this issue out for herself and gains some peace because the outcome that she wants isn't going to come to fruition, and even if it did it would do nothing to heal the wound that she's been picking at for years.

 

[Ajax]

Found this on the 'net. It's a compilation video of the 2013 running season by Team All Ears. At the 0:15 mark is a picture of the entire team posing with Yehaa Bob at POR. In it, the lady to YB's immediate left appears to be MSM. I'm not going to attempt to draw a conclusion as to what the picture does or doesn't show for one very simple reason: I can't see very well at this time. I've had cataract surgery on both eyes over the last month, and until I can be fitted for new prescription lenses, I'm operating with a pair of $10 cheaters. So things are either a bit blurry or distorted thru my eyes right now, and I don't trust 'em. Watch the video, and make your own assessment.

 

[Disneylover99]

You can't help but wonder if she's blown what happened up in her mind to be way more than it was in reality. No way to know for certain of course just going on other instances in my own memory. As much as we like to think we are remembering things exactly as they happened, time tends to alter things. She was obviously bothered some by it at the time but has it maybe also grown in her mind since? If she saw that photo now would she remember it differently or the same?

In fairness to Bob, I wish she viewed the photo before she made this accusation public. Other details may have come back into her mind which could either seal the deal for her or put doubt in her mind.