Clarification on David's rental situation

[McCrae]

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[McCrae]

no, I read one where the insurance did not pay out because David's offered a voucher. So they did buy the travel insurance, but were still denied because voucher option.

Credit card insurance is what you are referring to....not the same type of policy.

I've read all the posts and none of them said they got their money back through travel insurance

You must have missed it, it was a very interesting part of the thread. A lot of time was spent discussing what insurance options were available.

 

[Sandisw]

Credit card insurance is what you are referring to....not the same type of policy.

You must have missed it, it was a very interesting part of the thread. A lot of time was spent discussing what insurance options were available.

I too have read That entire thread and do not remember any renters getting paid from CFAR or any other insurance in that thread.

 

[McCrae]

I too have read That entire thread and do not remember any renters getting paid from CFAR or any other insurance in that thread.

Maybe I am going crazy, which is a possibility during this lockdown...but I remember there was a large debate about insurance options and if CAFR policies were available and if it covered the current situation. Perhaps it was on a similar themed thread?

 

[Sandisw]

Maybe I am going crazy, which is a possibility during this lockdown...but I remember there was a large debate about insurance options and if CAFR policies were available and if it covered the current situation. Perhaps it was on a similar themed thread?

There was a lot of discussion, but some said that even their CFAR insurance was denying the claim, I read it on one of the other forums here on the DIS too,,,I believe it was resorts.

The only mention of someone saying they could be covered has struggled because of the voucher,

Most renters seem to have had very difficult getting things covered, even when the bought the insurance recommended, So, while I do think that renters should have gotten it, I don’t think in this situation many have been successful

CC chargeback is the best option for them since Davids isn’t refunding renters, even when owners do.

 

[McCrae]

There was a lot of discussion, but some said that even their CFAR insurance was denying the claim, I read it on one of the other forums here on the DIS too,,,I believe it was resorts.

The only mention of someone saying they could be covered has struggled because of the voucher,

Most renters seem to have had very difficult getting things covered, even when the bought the insurance recommended, So, while I do think that renters should have gotten it, I don’t think in this situation many have been successful

CC chargeback is the best option for them since Davids isn’t refunding renters, even when owners do.

I agree

 

[disneypharm]

I think the person who keeps telling the renters to get trip insurance ("the renters knew the contract was non-refundable and they should have gotten a trip insurance) is talking about trip insurance in UK and not USA!! I posted the following in another thread about David's and the same person keeps bringing it up!! "You and a few owners in this thread need to stop blaming the renters for this mess!! Most renters knew that the contract is non-refundable as long as the accommodation was available. Most renters have bought trip insurance (from US and not UK which some seem to have coverage for pandemic - as stated by some posts here) that now conveniently claim that a pandemic is not covered."

I have read almost all the 130 pages of the other thread and have not seen anyone who has received any payments from a trip insurance company.

 

[Yinn]

at least as owners you are getting 70% for points that either will expire or you get the points back and could use them. i find it kind of insane that people are complaining about the other 30% when renters are basically getting nothing back maybe a voucher from a most likely bankrupt company. WHEN its our money you have received for a product you cant deliver. i know the way davids words the contract its not that simple but is a middle man between a renter and owner. i personally think its down right criminal if owners keep the 70% for reservations during the closure. now if the resort is open and i choose not to go then its on me the renter. i have laid out 10k for 3 rooms in Aulani in July though davids. here are my options
1. its closed i lose 10k and maybe get a voucher but the owner gets 70% of my money they get there points back and extended for 6 months or if is current they can bank them for 2021
2. its open but davids does not pay the 30% so the owner cancels i show up and have a major problem
3. its open but i choose not go bc of the virus and i lose the 10k.....now that is on me and i accept that risk
4. i go risk it bc i have flights and 10k invested in a trip and hope its ok and hope we dont get sick

well how do those options sound? awful
so please when you say you are worried about your 30% think about the person who rented from davids and while hopefully most people do the right thing there will be a lot that take the money and run and probably re-rent the points or use them.....

Just an FYI. Davids is asking for the full amount back from those who got points back. So those who “got points back” including the ones who got them back and only have 6 months to use them, still have to pay dues for the year - are being asked to return all of the money.

Its not the owners fault that the renter isn’t getting cash from Davids.

Oh and this is coming from an owner who reached out to a renter directly to see what we can do, then made the decision to cancel the reservation instead of waiting so that the renter can claim the chargeback. I’m taking on risk now, but I’m sure as heck not giving Davids money that isn’t going to the renters.

 

[cm8]

There was one person who did have CFAR/ and or regular insurance that paid out. However, going forward they said that the insurance was not going to cover it again if the same thing happens again because it was now Pre existing. I don’t remember what page or what name but it was there unless it got deleted.


Here is one....

My insurance does cover pandemics. It’s not cancel for any reason, however as a Canadian who can’t leave we’re covered. So yes you’re right, some renters insurance does cover this.

Their willingness to flex on the no cancellations has made my insurance claim harder though, kind of ironically. And communication with them has been somewhat understandably difficult.

Here is 2.....This one was on the Cruise

Our trip is Aug 30, so the likelihood of this things continuing is of great interest to me. However, I don't think anybody can have any realistic idea. Who would have thought last week that Italy would be closed for business this week and that the National Guard would be cordoning off an area in Westchester County.

People really need to dig through their explanation of benefits. I just did a search of mine and CFAR is truly CFAR provided I do it up to 48 hours out. There are also no exclusions for pandemic or epidemics in my policy so If I did show up and was denied boarding, I would be covered. Get it as a .pdf or web page and do a search on epidemic or pandemic to see if it's even mentioned, then read through the exclusions.

We're expecting to take the trip but will have to decide for certain about 30 days out as we have a DVC reservation as Plan B. We do have a cruise already booked for July 2021 (Southern Itinerary in July - how stupid is that?!!) so we'll just transfer any monies from a canceled cruise (form Disney or insurance) to that cruise.

Edited to add insurance

 

[starry_solo]

So, I did a search under "CFAR" under the forum "DVC-Mousecellaneous" and these are the posts that popped up:

https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...-or-rescheduling.3796922/page-9#post-61715926
https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...-renter-cancels.3796406/page-19#post-61697587
https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...-renter-cancels.3796406/page-19#post-61697747
https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...r-rescheduling.3796922/page-114#post-61818243
https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...-renter-cancels.3796406/page-26#post-61712077
https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...-renter-cancels.3796406/page-24#post-61710141
Not sure how many threads I can link so I'll stop at six in this post. But so far, none of them have said it. A lot of European people keep saying that CFAR insurance does allow recovery, but apparently insurance is set out differently in Europe than in the US.

@MIndy S said in that thread this:

"I have a comprehensive travel insurance and I paid extra for CFAR coverage. However, this exclusion is included in the contract...

"failure of any tour operator, Common Carrier, person or agency to provide the bargained-for travel arrangements or to refund money due the Insured."

Therefore, my insurance will not cover this situation. If I cannot reschedule my June trip due to expiring points, I will be SOL. I fully intend on filing with the CC company if the broker refuses to refund. "

 

[starry_solo]

https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...-or-rescheduling.3796922/page-7#post-61715128
https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...r-rescheduling.3796922/page-114#post-61818308
https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...or-rescheduling.3796922/page-33#post-61737832
https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...-or-rescheduling.3796922/page-8#post-61715382
https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...r-rescheduling.3796922/page-117#post-61821602
There is a lot of discussion about CFAR insurance but no one has actually come out and said they were reimbursed. Plus, at least in the US, CFAR insurance only allows recovery of a certain percentage (not the entire amount).

OP: Since the renter cannot ask for a chargeback until the date of the reservation passes, the only thing you could possibly do is, once you find out the renter hasn't checked in, to contact DVC to possibly recover the rest of the points.

But contact David's first, to make sure that the renter didn't just miss a flight and is late checking in.

 

[cm8]

I think the person who keeps telling the renters to get trip insurance ("the renters knew the contract was non-refundable and they should have gotten a trip insurance) is talking about trip insurance in UK and not USA!! I posted the following in another thread about David's and the same person keeps bringing it up!! "You and a few owners in this thread need to stop blaming the renters for this mess!! Most renters knew that the contract is non-refundable as long as the accommodation was available. Most renters have bought trip insurance (from US and not UK which some seem to have coverage for pandemic - as stated by some posts here) that now conveniently claim that a pandemic is not covered."

I have read almost all the 130 pages of the other thread and have not seen anyone who has received any payments from a trip insurance company.

Well, it does apparently exist depending on where you live. We understand the same rules may not apply to different countries. It’s not as if we go around asking for that information either.

 

[3babiesmom]

Just an FYI. Davids is asking for the full amount back from those who got points back. So those who “got points back” including the ones who got them back and only have 6 months to use them, still have to pay dues for the year - are being asked to return all of the money.

Its not the owners fault that the renter isn’t getting cash from Davids.

Oh and this is coming from an owner who reached out to a renter directly to see what we can do, then made the decision to cancel the reservation instead of waiting so that the renter can claim the chargeback. I’m taking on risk now, but I’m sure as heck not giving Davids money that isn’t going to the renters.

How did you get in contact with the renter? I am a renter and I have asked David to forward my contact information to the owner and they refused.

 

[TheWheel]

Some corrections are required regarding your post.

It is not correct to state that all renters are getting nothing back. Those that followed David's advice and took out adequate insurance are receiving refunds.

I have sympathy for those renters who feel that the no refunds or any changes clause does not apply in this case, but that point is up for debate and challenge.

Personally I would never agree to sign a contract with this condition attached unless I had a cancel for any reason insurance policy.

If renters are entitled to a refund their credit card companies will provide it. As an owner the only way I potentially can get the money owned to me is to take David's to court. This isn't really a viable option.

Renters could have taken steps to protect themselves and need to take some responsibility for the problems they now face.

Some corrections regarding your post.

Most that took out insurance are not receiving payments.

I have sympathy for owners that feel not providing the contracted accommodations in exchange for the renters money does not apply in the case, but no available room through no fault of the renter means they are due a refund.

Personally I would never rent a reservation unless I was prepared to refund the renter should my agent close the property.

If owners are entitled to have their points ectended due to the closure Disney will provide it.

Owners could have taken steps to protect themselves and need to take responsibility for the problems they now face.

 

[RNicole1]

I am a first time renter and I have no idea what to do. We received our travel credit offer from David’s yesterday and I haven’t accepted or declined it. I had originally planned to accept it then rebook in July for June of 2021, but after all of the posts with unhappy owners pulling their points and discussing possible bankruptcy, I am terrified. Our trip insurance will not cover a pandemic, so my only other option is a chargeback with Chase.

 

[3babiesmom]

I am a first time renter and I have no idea what to do. We received our travel credit offer from David’s yesterday and I haven’t accepted or declined it. I had originally planned to accept it then rebook in July for June of 2021, but after all of the posts with unhappy owners pulling their points and discussing possible bankruptcy, I am terrified. Our trip insurance will not cover a pandemic, so my only other option is a chargeback with Chase.

I am in the EXACT same situation. So lost on what to do!

How long do you have to accept the voucher?

 

[WDWEPCOT]

1. When was your original trip ?
2. Have you considered a credit card charge back??
You could always use voucher after credit charge back - others have posted as such
As you know you only get one chance with voucher and then - no soup for you!! You out !!
David’s word is very doubtful at this point - buyer be aware - I would consider charge back - but that is me.
Please let us know what you do and how it goes
Thanks so much for posting !!

 

[ray3127]

How did you get in contact with the renter? I am a renter and I have asked David to forward my contact information to the owner and they refused.

As the owner, we receive contact information for the renter. I know I have an email, and I think a phone number as well. David's tells us to NOT contact the renter directly, but in this case I probably will.

 

[ray3127]

Some corrections regarding your post.

Most that took out insurance are not receiving payments.

I have sympathy for owners that feel not providing the contracted accommodations in exchange for the renters money does not apply in the case, but no available room through no fault of the renter means they are due a refund.

Personally I would never rent a reservation unless I was prepared to refund the renter should my agent close the property.

If owners are entitled to have their points ectended due to the closure Disney will provide it.

Owners could have taken steps to protect themselves and need to take responsibility for the problems they now face.

You sound like you're not familiar with the rental process. Specifically, I'd like to know exactly what steps owners can take to protect themselves and what responsibilities owners should take for the problems they face. What exactly did I do wrong?

In case it wasn't clear, my main concern is that I used a rental company who is not standing by their policies and may not be a functioning business by the time my renters are supposed to use my points. @Sandisw above had a great description of how David's is picking/choosing what parts of his contract to enforce.

Given this unprecedented situation, I came here asking for advice and have had a constructive conversation about it, except for a few posts...

 

[3babiesmom]

As the owner, we receive contact information for the renter. I know I have an email, and I think a phone number as well. David's tells us to NOT contact the renter directly, but in this case I probably will.

Thank you!! Hopefully my owner will contact me too!