Clarification on David's rental situation

[ray3127]

Apologies; I have not kept up with the 3,000 post thread regarding David's DVC rentals. I've skimmed it a little, and also picked up pieces from other threads. I'm concerned about comments questioning the current state of David's and its ability to continue as a going concern.

I am a DVC owner that rented my points out through David's for a stay this September (most of the points were banked forward already and expire Sept. 30). The contract was finalized last November, and I received the initial 70%.

Is there any concern that David's will not follow through and pay me the remaining 30% in September? Whether WDW is open or not, the way the "old" contracts are written guarantees the owner these funds, correct?

Aside from that, if the renter is not comfortable going, I'd like to try to help. Should I contact David's to see if the renter has asked about the new voucher program? Or is that only applicable to reservations for dates the resorts are definitely closed for now?

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself with these questions, but the more I've poked around the more concerned I am getting. If the renter has asked for a CC charge back and/or a voucher from David's, then I may want to consider other ways to use these points before it is too late.

 

[starry_solo]

Renter can’t ask for a credit card chargeback until the date has passed and Disney is still closed.

 

[ray3127]

Renter can’t ask for a credit card chargeback until the date has passed and Disney is still closed.

Ok that helps, thank you.

I assume David's would only offer the voucher to those whose dates were during the closure as well?

 

[Sandisw]

Ok that helps, thank you.

I assume David's would only offer the voucher to those whose dates were during the closure as well?

There have been reports that renters have been offered a voucher for dates right before they closed and renters didn’t want to go.

No one ones what is going to happen, I have a renter scheduled in August and to be honest, I am in doubt I will be paid my 30%, even if resorts are open.

I am not convinced he will be able to pay people, given the number Of chargebacks he could be facing,

Until WDW is back open, and we hear that he is back fulfilling the contracts, it is all guess,

But, owners whose reservations were during closure have not been paid for the most part.

 

[ray3127]

There have been reports that renters have been offered a voucher for dates right before they closed and renters didn’t want to go.

No one ones what is going to happen, I have a renter scheduled in August and to be honest, I am in doubt I will be paid my 30%, even if resorts are open.

I am not convinced he will be able to pay people, given the number Of chargebacks he could be facing,

Until WDW is back open, and we here that he is back fulfilling the contracts, it is all guess,

But, owners whose reservations were during closure have not been paid for the most part.

Thank you. Helpful to hear from another who has points on the line later this year.

The part I bolded above is what I was afraid of. I suppose there's nothing we can really right now.

 

[cvjw]

Dealt with him for a couple of March rentals when the resorts were still fully open. One set of renters voluntarily checked out early and David’s wanted me to reimburse them for the points not used. Even though no points were refunded to me by dvc. For the other March rental, he tried to not pay the remaining 30% on checkin day, even though the resorts were open. Said maybe he would pay after a few days. I wanted no part of that and he finally paid the remaining balance.

I have one more rental in November. I do not trust him to do the right thing. He has proven to me that contracts don’t mean anything. I think you are completely justified in being worried about your final payment. I sure am.

 

[McCrae]

Apologies; I have not kept up with the 3,000 post thread regarding David's DVC rentals. I've skimmed it a little, and also picked up pieces from other threads. I'm concerned about comments questioning the current state of David's and its ability to continue as a going concern.

I am a DVC owner that rented my points out through David's for a stay this September (most of the points were banked forward already and expire Sept. 30). The contract was finalized last November, and I received the initial 70%.

Is there any concern that David's will not follow through and pay me the remaining 30% in September? Whether WDW is open or not, the way the "old" contracts are written guarantees the owner these funds, correct?

Aside from that, if the renter is not comfortable going, I'd like to try to help. Should I contact David's to see if the renter has asked about the new voucher program? Or is that only applicable to reservations for dates the resorts are definitely closed for now?

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself with these questions, but the more I've poked around the more concerned I am getting. If the renter has asked for a CC charge back and/or a voucher from David's, then I may want to consider other ways to use these points before it is too late.

David's has not been paying owners the 30% due at check in. If resorts are closed in September you probably won't get paid. If David's goes bust you probably won't get paid.

 

[dwight16]

at least as owners you are getting 70% for points that either will expire or you get the points back and could use them. i find it kind of insane that people are complaining about the other 30% when renters are basically getting nothing back maybe a voucher from a most likely bankrupt company. WHEN its our money you have received for a product you cant deliver. i know the way davids words the contract its not that simple but is a middle man between a renter and owner. i personally think its down right criminal if owners keep the 70% for reservations during the closure. now if the resort is open and i choose not to go then its on me the renter. i have laid out 10k for 3 rooms in Aulani in July though davids. here are my options
1. its closed i lose 10k and maybe get a voucher but the owner gets 70% of my money they get there points back and extended for 6 months or if is current they can bank them for 2021
2. its open but davids does not pay the 30% so the owner cancels i show up and have a major problem
3. its open but i choose not go bc of the virus and i lose the 10k.....now that is on me and i accept that risk
4. i go risk it bc i have flights and 10k invested in a trip and hope its ok and hope we dont get sick

well how do those options sound? awful
so please when you say you are worried about your 30% think about the person who rented from davids and while hopefully most people do the right thing there will be a lot that take the money and run and probably re-rent the points or use them.....

 

[McCrae]

at least as owners you are getting 70% for points that either will expire or you get the points back and could use them. i find it kind of insane that people are complaining about the other 30% when renters are basically getting nothing back maybe a voucher from a most likely bankrupt company. WHEN its our money you have received for a product you cant deliver. i know the way davids words the contract its not that simple but is a middle man between a renter and owner. i personally think its down right criminal if owners keep the 70% for reservations during the closure. now if the resort is open and i choose not to go then its on me the renter. i have laid out 10k for 3 rooms in Aulani in July though davids. here are my options
1. its closed i lose 10k and maybe get a voucher but the owner gets 70% of my money they get there points back and extended for 6 months or if is current they can bank them for 2021
2. its open but davids does not pay the 30% so the owner cancels i show up and have a major problem
3. its open but i choose not go bc of the virus and i lose the 10k.....now that is on me and i accept that risk
4. i go risk it bc i have flights and 10k invested in a trip and hope its ok and hope we dont get sick

well how do those options sound? awful
so please when you say you are worried about your 30% think about the person who rented from davids and while hopefully most people do the right thing there will be a lot that take the money and run and probably re-rent the points or use them.....

Some corrections are required regarding your post.

It is not correct to state that all renters are getting nothing back. Those that followed David's advice and took out adequate insurance are receiving refunds.

I have sympathy for those renters who feel that the no refunds or any changes clause does not apply in this case, but that point is up for debate and challenge.

Personally I would never agree to sign a contract with this condition attached unless I had a cancel for any reason insurance policy.

If renters are entitled to a refund their credit card companies will provide it. As an owner the only way I potentially can get the money owned to me is to take David's to court. This isn't really a viable option.

Renters could have taken steps to protect themselves and need to take some responsibility for the problems they now face.

 

[Marionnette]

at least as owners you are getting 70% for points that either will expire or you get the points back and could use them. i find it kind of insane that people are complaining about the other 30% when renters are basically getting nothing back maybe a voucher from a most likely bankrupt company. WHEN its our money you have received for a product you cant deliver. i know the way davids words the contract its not that simple but is a middle man between a renter and owner. i personally think its down right criminal if owners keep the 70% for reservations during the closure. now if the resort is open and i choose not to go then its on me the renter. i have laid out 10k for 3 rooms in Aulani in July though davids. here are my options
1. its closed i lose 10k and maybe get a voucher but the owner gets 70% of my money they get there points back and extended for 6 months or if is current they can bank them for 2021
2. its open but davids does not pay the 30% so the owner cancels i show up and have a major problem
3. its open but i choose not go bc of the virus and i lose the 10k.....now that is on me and i accept that risk
4. i go risk it bc i have flights and 10k invested in a trip and hope its ok and hope we dont get sick

well how do those options sound? awful
so please when you say you are worried about your 30% think about the person who rented from davids and while hopefully most people do the right thing there will be a lot that take the money and run and probably re-rent the points or use them.....

A few corrections:

1. its closed i lose 10k and maybe get a voucher but the owner gets 70% of my money they get there points back and extended for 6 months or if is current they can bank them for 2021​

David’s is asking the owner to either allow the points to be re-rented, or return the monies already paid. Although the contract does not require the owner to do either, most owners will choose to do one or the other if they got their points back. Right now, only a small fraction of owners (those with March and April UYs) got an extension on banked points that expire during the closure.​

2. its open but davids does not pay the 30% so the owner cancels i show up and have a major problem​

David’s and all of the other brokers withhold final payment to the owner until at least the day of check in. One of them holds onto the money until the day of check out. If you were to arrive and there Is no room or reservation for you, your contract with David’s requires them to find you suitable accommodations.​

​

3. its open but i choose not go bc of the virus and i lose the 10k.....now that is on me and i accept that risk
You are correct. That’s a decision that you would have to make. Your contract does not allow for refunds, especially if you choose not to travel even though the resort is open.​

4. i go risk it bc i have flights and 10k invested in a trip and hope its ok and hope we dont get sick​

Again, that’s up to you. You agreed to a no-refunds reservation. Everyone has to weigh the risks vs the cost. Not just in this case, but every time we step outside of our homes.​

 

[dwight16]

A few corrections:

​

2. its open but davids does not pay the 30% so the owner cancels i show up and have a major problem​

David’s and all of the other brokers withhold final payment to the owner until at least the day of check in. One of them holds onto the money until the day of check out. If you were to arrive and there Is no room or reservation for you, your contract with David’s requires them to find you suitable accommodations.​

​

​

so i agree with all your points but the problem with this one you cant get a hold of davids right now. so if this happens your out of luck.....

 

[lawboy2001]

Well, we can guess that the resorts will be open by September, and if so, and David's is still in business, I'd like to think you would get your 30% holdback. But the appalling experience described by CVJW above, makes me wonder! CVJW was owed the 30% and it seems David's had to be pressured to pay. I think things are going to be worse for David's, financially, come September.

 

[yankeesfan123]

Some corrections are required regarding your post.

It is not correct to state that all renters are getting nothing back. Those that followed David's advice and took out adequate insurance are receiving refunds.

I have sympathy for those renters who feel that the no refunds or any changes clause does not apply in this case, but that point is up for debate and challenge.

Personally I would never agree to sign a contract with this condition attached unless I had a cancel for any reason insurance policy.

If renters are entitled to a refund their credit card companies will provide it. As an owner the only way I potentially can get the money owned to me is to take David's to court. This isn't really a viable option.

Renters could have taken steps to protect themselves and need to take some responsibility for the problems they now face.

Wow. Just wow.

 

[lawboy2001]

at least as owners you are getting 70% for points that either will expire or you get the points back and could use them. i find it kind of insane that people are complaining about the other 30% when renters are basically getting nothing back maybe a voucher from a most likely bankrupt company. WHEN its our money you have received for a product you cant deliver. i know the way davids words the contract its not that simple but is a middle man between a renter and owner. i personally think its down right criminal if owners keep the 70% for reservations during the closure. now if the resort is open and i choose not to go then its on me the renter. i have laid out 10k for 3 rooms in Aulani in July though davids. here are my options
1. its closed i lose 10k and maybe get a voucher but the owner gets 70% of my money they get there points back and extended for 6 months or if is current they can bank them for 2021
2. its open but davids does not pay the 30% so the owner cancels i show up and have a major problem
3. its open but i choose not go bc of the virus and i lose the 10k.....now that is on me and i accept that risk
4. i go risk it bc i have flights and 10k invested in a trip and hope its ok and hope we dont get sick

well how do those options sound? awful
so please when you say you are worried about your 30% think about the person who rented from davids and while hopefully most people do the right thing there will be a lot that take the money and run and probably re-rent the points or use them.....

The OP asked legitimate questions about his transaction. Obviously, since owners have received 70% of their funds, they are likely to suffer smaller losses than renters are, as a matter of basic arithmetic. Doesn't mean he needs to be criticized for asking the questions he did...

 

[Marionnette]

so i agree with all your points but the problem with this one you cant get a hold of davids right now. so if this happens your out of luck.....

The resorts are not open right now, so your point is moot.

 

[Sandisw]

so i agree with all your points but the problem with this one you cant get a hold of davids right now. so if this happens your out of luck.....

The problem is that an owner who cancels less than 31 days before check in....assuming resorts are open...ends up with restricted points...they can’t be banked, expire at the end of the UY of the trip and can only be used to book trips 60 days or less from check in.

So, for any owner to benefit from canceling a trip and breaking the contract with the broker because they don’t feel they will get the 30% would do so well before check in day...as a renter you’d know that in advance,

As an owner dealing with this, that is the dilemma I currently have. Do I save my points, return the funds and break the contract? Or do I let it ride, knowing very well, I am less likely to get what I am owed even if the renter gets to keep and go on their vacation?

You will find most owners right now are leaning to not let the renter be out a trip if resorts are open...that is my plan right now, but if things with the broker changes, and he starts allowing renters out of their contracts because they don’t feel comfortable going, and is not paying owners, then my decision may very well change.

 

[Miffy]

It is not correct to state that all renters are getting nothing back. Those that followed David's advice and took out adequate insurance are receiving refunds.

I haven't followed the entire giant thread about Davids, and I have a question about this comment regarding adequate insurance. Has anyone who rented points received a refund via trip insurance? The last time I checked even people with cancel-for-any-reason insurance weren't covered for the pandemic.

 

[ray3127]

Thanks to all for the replies.

As for the "it's worse for the renter" argument: I said it up top, but let me be clear that I'd like to help the renter out if at all possible. If the resorts are open, I hope they get to go. But given what has transpired recently, the questions I am asking are perfectly reasonable.

What non-owners may not understand are the limits on points. If WDW opens this summer, DVC won't be extending my points for 6 months past September 30. And even if they did, there's no guarantee that I can use them, especially given the backlog of points the system will be facing for a while.

There are risks to ownership that non-owners may not understand. Like it or not, the point rental market was designed to protect owners against these risks. The deal was the renter gets a room at a significant discount, but assumes most/all of the financial risk. The entire point of the independent third party (David's) is to match up renters with owners and establish a set of rules all would follow. But David's isn't playing by those rules, and it is creating some uncomfortable situations. Like I said, I'm willing to help my renters if at all possible; but as an owner, I'm entitled to the protections that David's offered me when I agreed to rent my points with him.

If WDW is open in September and the renters get to go on their trip, but David's won't pay me the remaining balance I am owed, then I have zero options other than taking David's to court, as someone mentioned above. I'm not going to do that, so I'm thinking about other options while I still have time to do something else (especially because DVC is bending rules right now, it might be worth it to break the contract and return the funds). *ETA: @cvjw's post in particular has me leaning towards doing this sooner rather than later

 

[McCrae]

Wow. Just wow.

Facts can be surprising.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

I have a question - how would you know if David let a renter out of the contract ? Answer - you don’t - as is the case with my renter / David is taking free range with the contracts and changing them willy nilly to his benefit. Owners are left in the dark on this one
As a renter (yup I have a rental too) I’ve been left in the dark
God forbid as an Owner you would do anything to protect your points as you are breaking your contract and David could come after you but he has broken several contracts
As I have stated this is a hot mess and getting hotter every day
Most of us are in a no win situation it does absolutely no good to argue against one another - the bottom line is we all stand to lose as owners and renters but I believe David is grabbing all he can before he folds and reopens under a new name just my opinion you don’t have to agree with me like it or tell me I’m wrong I believe his actions since this started speak loud and clear if anyone wants to look at them .