Clarification on David's rental situation

[McCrae]

I haven't followed the entire giant thread about Davids, and I have a question about this comment regarding adequate insurance. Has anyone who rented points received a refund via trip insurance? The last time I checked even people with cancel-for-any-reason insurance weren't covered for the pandemic.

On the larger thread posters have claimed to have received refunds from their cancel for any reason insurance policies. It was also clear that not all cancel for any reason insurance policies would provide cover.

 

[ButterbearUK]

You make valid points. Don’t forget also, and I say this as a someone renting points from David’s, you’ve forgotten the fact that when we choose to rent we are doing so in part because renting is roughly half to cost of paying rack rate at the equivalent resort. The reason renters are willing to enter into a non-refundable reservation is to get access to massively reduced rates for accommodation.

Am I kicking myself that we didn’t buy special insurance for our 3 rentals in October, you bet! I’m not sure that our standard travel insurance will cover us if we can’t get to the resorts to enjoy them. But that’s not the fault of the points owner.

I’m just keeping everything crossed that it will be safe, the resorts will be open, flights will be running and the US/UK governments both allow us to travel without complicated restrictions. And that the people who have kindly rented us their points don’t feel the need to cancel for fear of losing their points/money for the booking. But I get the feeling that the vast majority are very decent and would not do this.

 

[3babiesmom]

As a renter, if the resort is open and I decide not to go, that's the risk I took by renting points. However, if the resorts are closed there should be some sort of monetary remediation even if it's just the 70%. I would happily take a 70% refund!!!

 

[McCrae]

If WDW is open in September and the renters get to go on their trip, but David's won't pay me the remaining balance I am owed, then I have zero options other than taking David's to court, as someone mentioned above. I'm not going to do that, so I'm thinking about other options while I still have time to do something else (especially because DVC is bending rules right now, it might be worth it to break the contract and return the funds). *ETA: @cvjw's post in particular has me leaning towards doing this sooner rather than later

I would urge caution on breaking the contract. You could end up being liable for much more than the funds you received for rental.

Potentially you would become liable for any reasonable costs the renter has incurred. This would include flight costs, car hire, park tickets etc.

Personally I wouldn’t want to cancel someones trip to Disney because David‘s may owe me some money...it’s not the renters fault.

 

[Marionnette]

As a renter, if the resort is open and I decide not to go, that's the risk I took by renting points. However, if the resorts are closed there should be some sort of monetary remediation even if it's just the 70%. I would happily take a 70% refund!!!

Except the owner doesn’t have 70% of what you paid David’s. They have 70% of what David’s owes them for making the reservation. David’s keeps $4.50/point for themself from what you paid. Of the remaining funds, they retain 30% to ensure that the owner doesn’t flake out and cancel your reservation. In all, David’s still has about 46% of what you sent him. The owner has the other 54%.

Would you still be satisfied with an owner refunding 54% of what you paid?

 

[ray3127]

I would urge caution on breaking the contract. You could end up being liable for much more than the funds you received for rental.

Potentially you would become liable for any reasonable costs the renter has incurred. This would include flight costs, car hire, park tickets etc.

Personally I wouldn’t want to cancel someones trip to Disney because David‘s may owe me some money...it’s not the renters fault.

I hear you. Honestly I think WDW will open in June, so my renters will be able to go in September. My chief concern is about David's handling of things, which sounds shady right now. If they aren't able to continue as a business, then I'd like to work something out with the renters sooner rather than later.

I emailed David's expressing my concerns and outlining some of what I've read. I asked for a response, so we'll see if they have anything to say.

 

[eMoneyBug]

So DVC owners, do you wish you would have rented them out yourself?

Renters, do you wish you would have rented with an owner direct vs using a broker?

...I was going to rent out my points via a broker, but when I found out they will report for taxes, I couldn't stomach the lower $amount I'm going to get and get taxed for it, so I basically went direct and charged just a slight $1buck above what I was going to get from the broker. When C19 hit, I gave 100% refunds even though my contract said no refunds. Was just the right thing to do for my situation. Sometimes dealing with 1 on 1 works best.

 

[Sandisw]

So DVC owners, do you wish you would have rented them out yourself?

Renters, do you wish you would have rented with an owner direct vs using a broker?

...I was going to rent out my points via a broker, but when I found out they will report for taxes, I couldn't stomach the lower $amount I'm going to get and get taxed for it, so I basically went direct and charged just a slight $1buck above what I was going to get from the broker. When C19 hit, I gave 100% refunds even though my contract said no refunds. Was just the right thing to do for my situation. Sometimes dealing with 1 on 1 works best.

In hindsight, absolutely. I praised the ease and how great it was. Now seeing how he has handled this crisis, I regret my decision but am stuck at this point,

His business means he gets to choose, but as an owner, it’s clear that he is currently picking and choosing when He wants to claim contract provisions as still being valid, and when he wants to say they are not,

He seems to be holding owners accountable to the terms they can’t cancel or face consequences but then is telling owners that the contract is frustrated so they either return the money or agree to another contract with him,

If I rent again, it will be for sure on my own!

 

[lawboy2001]

God forbid as an Owner you would do anything to protect your points as you are breaking your contract and David could come after you but he has broken several contracts

Much like owners taking David's to court over their 30%, the spectre of David 'com[ing] after' owners for violating the contract (i.e. by cancelling the reservation and working with renter directly), is simply not a realistic scenario.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

In hindsight, absolutely. I praised the ease and how great it was. Now seeing how he has handled this crisis, I regret my decision but am stuck at this point,

His business means he gets to choose, but as an owner, it’s clear that he is currently picking and choosing when He wants to claim contract provisions as still being valid, and when he wants to say they are not,

He seems to be holding owners accountable to the terms they can’t cancel or face consequences but then is telling owners that the contract is frustrated so they either return the money or agree to another contract with him,

If I rent again, it will be for sure on my own!

This is what I am saying !! Could not agree more !

 

[3babiesmom]

Except the owner doesn’t have 70% of what you paid David’s. They have 70% of what David’s owes them for making the reservation. David’s keeps $4.50/point for themself from what you paid. Of the remaining funds, they retain 30% to ensure that the owner doesn’t flake out and cancel your reservation. In all, David’s still has about 46% of what you sent him. The owner has the other 54%.

Would you still be satisfied with an owner refunding 54% of what you paid?

For a cash refund, yes!

 

[starry_solo]

I didn't read any post of the 130+ page thread that anyone who had CFAR insurance received reimbursement from their insurance company. Once Disney closed down, this does not allow the insured to "cancel" the reservation because it has already been "cancelled" by Disney's closure.

 

[McCrae]

I didn't read any post of the 130+ page thread that anyone who had CFAR insurance received reimbursement from their insurance company. Once Disney closed down, this does not allow the insured to "cancel" the reservation because it has already been "cancelled" by Disney's closure.

but you did read that some people did cancel and got a refund?

 

[Dixie1337]

Renters, do you wish you would have rented with an owner direct vs using a broker?

To be honest I wish I would have just stayed in a value and booked direct with disney LOL. I'm not going until December and January but I have the added concern of whether the Canadian border will be open for travel and if I can even get travel medical insurance - I won't go without it, the immediate loss is not worth the level of potential risk.

I've seen some owners (and granted they are in the minority but they exist!) saying they won't refund renters during the closure even if booked direct and again my situation is more complicated because I do expect the parks to be open during my reservations.

I don't think I will rent points again. I was fine when the risk involved was all on what I did, but this goes beyond that and was not something really anyone, myself included, considered. This was my first time renting points... I've learned my lesson!

 

[eMoneyBug]

To be honest I wish I would have just stayed in a value and booked direct with disney LOL. I'm not going until December and January but I have the added concern of whether the Canadian border will be open for travel and if I can even get travel medical insurance - I won't go without it, the immediate loss is not worth the level of potential risk.

I've seen some owners (and granted they are in the minority but they exist!) saying they won't refund renters during the closure even if booked direct and again my situation is more complicated because I do expect the parks to be open during my reservations.

I don't think I will rent points again. I was fine when the risk involved was all on what I did, but this goes beyond that and was not something really anyone, myself included, considered. This was my first time renting points... I've learned my lesson!

Those owner statements could have been when DVC was giving us owners a hardline "sorry charlie" your points expire, but they have since given owners 6 or 12month extensions with potentially more leniency coming, so those owners "hopefully" have since done the right thing and at minimum allowed a "re-book" or attempt to find another renter and reimb type situation, especially for your sitch Dec 2020/Jan 2021, it won't be that hard for an owner to find another renter. To date, I don't know any owner that has truely "got screwed", so therefore no renter should either! I hope your owner does you right!!!

 

[starry_solo]

but you did read that some people did cancel and got a refund?

Nope. Haven't seen a post that said that either.

 

[McCrae]

Nope. Haven't seen a post that said that either.

. The posts are there, you have just missed them.

 

[Disaseny]

but you did read that some people did cancel and got a refund?

no, I read one where the insurance did not pay out because David's offered a voucher. So they did buy the travel insurance, but were still denied because voucher option.

 

[ajwilhorn]

So DVC owners, do you wish you would have rented them out yourself?

Renters, do you wish you would have rented with an owner direct vs using a broker?

...I was going to rent out my points via a broker, but when I found out they will report for taxes, I couldn't stomach the lower $amount I'm going to get and get taxed for it, so I basically went direct and charged just a slight $1buck above what I was going to get from the broker. When C19 hit, I gave 100% refunds even though my contract said no refunds. Was just the right thing to do for my situation. Sometimes dealing with 1 on 1 works best.

My wife and I rented through David's a few years back for a week no kids December trip at OKW. For the most part we are a Pop family, but thought it would be cool to stay at a deluxe and doing so through David's made the cost reasonable. For me the boat ride to DS from OKW was a big draw for me, but to be honest many of the amenities at deluxe resorts for most people, simply aren't a big draw for us. Our last trip during Marathon weekend, (kid free again) we stayed at Pop. I took the bus from the park to OKW and then took the boat from there to DS before taking the bus from DS back to Pop when I was done. Overall it worked out pretty good.

That being said, in the future if we do venture to a deluxe stay again it will not be with David's or any broker for that matter. It will either be through an owner advertising points here on DIS or booked via bounceback to bring the cost difference between the two closer.

 

[starry_solo]

. The posts are there, you have just missed them.

I've read all the posts and none of them said they got their money back through travel insurance