YourEveryDayAdam
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2009
If the renters are working with David's, then they got a voucher and can re-rent in the future...assuming David's is still in business then. If David's business survives this, then they will be made some semblance of whole. There are many valid arguments that these renters should be getting a full cash refund, but David's is refusing to honor that part of his contract with his customers.
A lot of renters are simply disputing the purchase with their credit card companies and we are starting to see many of those first disputes come back in favor of the renter. This likely means most, if not all, renters who dispute the charges with their credit cards are going to get their money back from David's. They are being fully made whole. This is something that has the great potential to put David's business at significant risk.
You are not obligated to agree to the new contract. You can say no. If you are not comfortable with the new terms, then I would NOT recommend you agree to them.
Some people consider it the right thing to do to refund the money to David's. That is your call. I certainly cannot and will not argue with that point of view. Refunding the money to David's will help his business potentially survive in the end. It will help him to fund the vouchers he is now on the hook for and provide cash to potentially pay off the credit card charge backs that are coming.
A lot of owners, who have points that cannot be realistically used and/or rerented, are refusing to return the money to David's as they were promised no risks and were (for all intents and purposes) given a guarantee that they would get paid. I also cannot and will not argue with this point of view either. A lot of owners rented points with David's simply because they would be unable to use those points and wanted to get some value out of them before they expired and couldn't be used. A lot of owners are going to have their points expire and be unusable.
Put simply: It's impossible for everyone to "Win" in this scenario. Owners, Renters, and David's can and will lose. TBH, renters have the best possible outcome to this: Dispute the charge with your credit card. You'll get cash that, if you want, you can use to re-rent points later...put it in savings...pay bills...take it straight to Disney and get a good deal directly from the mouse when they reopen...Cash is KING!
Most recently reported interactions with David's seems to be along the lines of that he is letting owners keep that money, and asking that they re-rent their points with the promise of the remaining 30% being paid out to them. Reports are mixed, but it seems that David's is paying some owners the remaining 30% now when the points are re-rented and for some owners David's is not doing that. There have also been a report or two of David's agreeing to the old contract terms for re-rented points. If that is important to you, then be sure to insist on this and don't feel obligated to rerent your points if David's refuses.
David's has been refusing to pay the remaining 30% to all owners unless they agree to re-rent and this will typically put those owners under the new terms. There are many valid arguments on both sides of the coin. I don't think ANYONE would argue that by giving the money back to David's that you are the "bad guy". If anything, that is likely the best thing you are able to do from the "let your conscience be your guide" perspective.
Another point of view is that if enough people file charge backs, and enough owners refuse to rerent points, then David's inevitably goes bankrupt. There won't be enough owners willing to rerent points to satisfy all the vouchers he's been issuing. David's still has to pay his staff, rent, expenses, and these overhead costs aren't going away. There are folks here that seem to think bankruptcy is inevitable. While we don't have any insight into David's actual business finances, I can't say I would be surprised to see his business fail because of this.
It's possible to argue that even if every owner returned every penny that David's still wouldn't be able to survive because of his overhead expenses...staff wages, rent, etc. Most businesses cannot survive for three and a half months without delivering a single product...That's how long DVC resorts are likely to be shuttered (at minimum) at this point...mid March to end of June...3.5 months...30% annual loss of business. Even once the resorts reopen... his business, or ANY travel business, isn't going to return to the levels they were before COVID. Between the recession and folks being afraid to travel...THAT will likely take a year or two.
Additionally, Disney is likely to offer SIGNIFICANT discounts to get people to return back to the resorts/parks again. I remember the height of "The Great Recession" when Disney pretty regularly offered a flat 40% discount on rooms. Those prices put direct/CRO cash DVC rooms at about the same cost as going through David's. David's price is going to be more directly competing with Disney's cash price. That will dry up all his new business unless he lowers his rental rates...so either he's making LESS money off the top, or he's passing that reduced rate to the owners...that could also dry up the owners who are willing to rent with him.
My point on the last three paragraphs is that David's has a reasonable chance of failing, regardless of what happens. If you refund money back to him, you may be sending that cash to be sucked up by the bankruptcy instead. His renters won't see that money at all then.
If it were me, I'd agree to re-rent the SPECIFIC points that I originally rented with David's, including all of the use restrictions around them...banked points...borrowed points...Disney extending expiration on some points...etc... I would only re-rent at the old contract terms, and if he paid the remaining 30% at the time I provide the reservation confirmation number. If he rents them and I get the remaining 30% great! If it's not possible to rerent those points, or David's is unable to find a new renter before banking deadlines, then i'd see if I could deposit those points in to RCI or try to use them for a last minute trip of some sort, and completely walk away not returning the amounts already paid.
In the end, do what you feel is best for you and your situation. If you have the money to be able to give the money back, you have a reasonable ability to use/rerent your points in the future, David's agrees to let you rerent at the old contract paying you the remaining funds due at time of reservation, and/or it helps you sleep better at night...those are all things that are unique to you, your points, and your situation. Weigh them carefully and you'll come to the right answer that makes sense for you...I don't think there really is a right/wrong answer here...and there DEFINITELY isn't one answer that applies to everyone's situation.
Checkin isn't til next January so hopefully my lifetime record of success with David's will be 1 for 1. I certainly won't make this mistake again though. Disboards rent/trade forum next time for sure.
