No the Magic isn’t gone but it’s at 25%

[gharter]

I’ve being going since the early 90s and have never had a bad Disney vacation either and I’m hoping my one in two weeks time won’t be either. I’m not going there with a negative mindset and I fully intend to enjoy myself as much as possible whilst I’m there. I don’t stay onsite because it’s not worth it imo and my family have a timeshare in the area so they were never getting that money from me in the first place.

The two trips I’m taking this year were already booked and paid for in 2020 before the pandemic hit and have been rearranged multiple times due to border restrictions not being lifted in time so I’m going there regardless of how I feel about certain managerial decisions because I’m not losing thousands of pounds I’ve already spent over it. My flights to Florida are already booked for next year but whether I go to Disney or just do the other parks in the area on that trip all depends on how well these two trips go.

I think the discussion on here has been quite level headed so far compared to other places on the internet. Take one look at Twitter, TikTok or Reddit and you’ll see a lot more harsher and volatile criticism on those platforms from more diehard fans than I’ll ever be than has been voiced on here. The majority of them are Disney influencers in someway or another.

Agree. We have gone for years and enjoyed every trip. Each trip has its own personality. Especially this last year. But, if you go in with the idea that you will have fun and enjoy it, you will. If you go in with the idea that the crowds are terrible, its too crowded, the lines are too long, you will find that as well. In the last 5 years all 10 trip have been different, but always enjoyable. Just different.

 

[dez1978]

That’s very unusual. I paid 325.00 at PBH last month. In August I paid about the same for club level at Hardrock. Universal discounts have been as scarce as Disneys this year, but considering the state of the economy I expect discounts to return next year.

In normal years Universal resorts have been considerably cheaper. The best way to get a good discount at Universal is to upgrade to an annual. It cost me 25.00 each to upgrade my 3 day park hoppers to seasonal annual passes..total steal.

That was my plan, but there were never any ap rates for my dates at HRH. And we wanted the deluxe queen room with a pull out couch bc my boys can't share a bed so we stuck with this. In the past though, there have been Disney deluxe resort rooms available for around the same price as HRH. Same as now.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

That was my plan, but there were never any ap rates for my dates at HRH. And we wanted the deluxe queen room with a pull out couch bc my boys can't share a bed so we stuck with this. In the past though, there have been Disney deluxe resort rooms available for around the same price as HRH. Same as now.

AP rates were released like May 3rd or so (it was right around there), before that they didn't have any AP discounts. We paid $419+tax for our Royal Pacific room due to that (that we had for May 6th), I can't remember what we paid for Endless Summer but it was like $300 for 2 nights inclusive of tax but the AP discount would have also worked on that (we stayed May 4th-6th for Endless Summer). It wouldn't have mattered though because when I had checked back about a month or so after I booked (but before May) there wasn't any King rooms left at Royal Pacific so either they were sold out or they were holding back for a discount.

Ordinarily though I do think Universal has quite good rates for their AP holders, more so than Disney on average.

 

[DCLMP]

That was my plan, but there were never any ap rates for my dates at HRH. And we wanted the deluxe queen room with a pull out couch bc my boys can't share a bed so we stuck with this. In the past though, there have been Disney deluxe resort rooms available for around the same price as HRH. Same as now.

I would never pay 500 a night for a deluxe resort at WDW either and we always stay deluxe. Sorry, Disney I just won't do it. We rented pointed this go around and paid less than 250 a night for Boardwalk and Saratoga. I love Disney, but I have my limits. Like I said before I think discounted rooms will eventually be back.

 

[dez1978]

AP rates were released like May 3rd or so (it was right around there), before that they didn't have any AP discounts. We paid $419+tax for our Royal Pacific room due to that (that we had for May 6th), I can't remember what we paid for Endless Summer but it was like $300 for 2 nights inclusive of tax but the AP discount would have also worked on that (we stayed May 4th-6th for Endless Summer). It wouldn't have mattered though because when I had checked back about a month or so after I booked (but before May) there wasn't any King rooms left at Royal Pacific so either they were sold out or they were holding back for a discount.

Ordinarily though I do think Universal has quite good rates for their AP holders, more so than Disney on average.

Yeah, I'd been stalking watching and following for the dates I was going. There just never were any that popped up for my dates at HRH. I think the rooms were already gone bc I'd been watching prices so they never had to give a discount on them. I know this year is sort of an anomaly and not represetative of normal times.

I remember in 2019, booking our 1st disney trip finding rooms at AKL and WL for around 350/night. For the last week of March 23, the cheapest room at a deluxe resort at WDW is at AKL-522/night for a standard 2 queen room. At Universal the cheapest is RP at 543/night, but thats a king bed room. For a standard 2 queen room it's 609. So comparing apples to apples, you could stay at a disney deluxe cheaper. But for a little bit more at universal you get the express pass for everyone in your room. I'd be willing to pay more at a Disney deluxe for that. Looking at these numbers though, Disney deluxes and Universal are comperable now. Hopefully, in the next couple of years things even out and discounts become easier to find at both places.

This year was our 1st family trip to Universal after doing WDW 4x. Honestly, I found UO with the express passes so much more relaxing and enjoyable than disney, with or without fp/genie. It was nice to only need to plan how to get on 1 ride vs several. Hagrids was really the only line we waited in for more than 20 min. Even velocicoaster wasn't bad. We were there the week before Memorial day and it was crowded but not awful. And other than checking the app for the map, I didn't really have to be on my phone at all which was also nice.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Yeah, I'd been stalking watching and following for the dates I was going. There just never were any that popped up for my dates at HRH. I think the rooms were already gone bc I'd been watching prices so they never had to give a discount on them. I know this year is sort of an anomaly and not represetative of normal times.

I remember in 2019, booking our 1st disney trip finding rooms at AKL and WL for around 350/night. For the last week of March 23, the cheapest room at a deluxe resort at WDW is at AKL-522/night for a standard 2 queen room. At Universal the cheapest is RP at 543/night, but thats a king bed room. For a standard 2 queen room it's 609. So comparing apples to apples, you could stay at a disney deluxe cheaper. But for a little bit more at universal you get the express pass for everyone in your room. I'd be willing to pay more at a Disney deluxe for that. Looking at these numbers though, Disney deluxes and Universal are comperable now. Hopefully, in the next couple of years things even out and discounts become easier to find at both places.

This year was our 1st family trip to Universal after doing WDW 4x. Honestly, I found UO with the express passes so much more relaxing and enjoyable than disney, with or without fp/genie. It was nice to only need to plan how to get on 1 ride vs several. Hagrids was really the only line we waited in for more than 20 min. Even velocicoaster wasn't bad. We were there the week before Memorial day and it was crowded but not awful. And other than checking the app for the map, I didn't really have to be on my phone at all which was also nice.

I'm wondering if Epic Universe will impact the prices of Universal hotels, especially the ones that give you unlimited Express for everyone in your room. I have a tentative plan to skip WDW and stay at Universal when that opens but I am fully expecting the prices to skyrocket by then. I have never stayed at their hotels before and from what I've seen of even places like Cabana Bay, they offer more amenities for the same price or cheaper than comparable hotels at Disney like the All Stars.

I agree with your last paragraph. I still prefer WDW but I found Universal to be more laid back and chill in comparison. I did think that crowd wise Universal felt more crowded. The Harry Potter and Jurassic Park areas were shoulder to shoulder crowded. Being able to just go on whatever you want with Express was SO nice.

 

[MomOTwins]

If anyone was to read this whole thread they would have a difficult time finding anything positive about Disney written here. It's 90% negative. It surprises me that people would still go feeling as they do. There are so many great places to travel. Geez, my upcoming Europe trip cost less than what most people spend at Disney.

I keep hearing people say this. If you don’t like Disney go explore the world. I think a lot of people right now like me are wary of going overseas now. My husvand is a substitute teacher and he has been in high demand this year thanks to many teachers getting stuck overseas for weeks on end after getting Covid on their international trips. Hope that changes soon. We are doing Alaska this summer to avoid a covid test, but with the high demand for Alaska this summer for Covid revenge travel and flight prices gone nuts we are paying more than double the cost of a disney trip at a deluxe hotel the same week, and the cost plus the fact that my kids just aren’t excited/happy about Alaska is stressing me out. I think a lot of why Disney is still drawing so many families despite reductions in the quality if the vacation is that there just aren’t a lot of great, cheap options out there this year.

AP rates were released like May 3rd or so (it was right around there), before that they didn't have any AP discounts. We paid $419+tax for our Royal Pacific room due to that (that we had for May 6th), I can't remember what we paid for Endless Summer but it was like $300 for 2 nights inclusive of tax but the AP discount would have also worked on that (we stayed May 4th-6th for Endless Summer). It wouldn't have mattered though because when I had checked back about a month or so after I booked (but before May) there wasn't any King rooms left at Royal Pacific so either they were sold out or they were holding back for a discount.

Ordinarily though I do think Universal has quite good rates for their AP holders, more so than Disney on average.

I have noticed AP rates have been more scarce lately, and rack rates have been more closely matching Disney. Looking at an upcoming weekend I was considering (Juneteenth long weekend), no AP rates available for two out of three UO premier resorts: $609 for RPR and $669 at HRH. You can get PBH for $499 with an AP rate (general public rate $689). Same weekend at Disney world, I could get general public discount rates of $363 for AKL or $496 for Boardwalk. Not a Disney AP so can’t see Disney AP rates but regardless I do think Universal pricing has caught up to Disney and then some.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Honestly, I found UO with the express passes so much more relaxing and enjoyable than disney, with or without fp/genie. It was nice to only need to plan how to get on 1 ride vs several. Hagrids was really the only line we waited in for more than 20 min. Even velocicoaster wasn't bad. We were there the week before Memorial day and it was crowded but not awful. And other than checking the app for the map, I didn't really have to be on my phone at all which was also nice.

We felt the same. We did 1 day without EP and 2 days with EP (due to Royal Pacific) and the day without EP was just as relaxing as the 2 days with it (but we've also been enough to USO that we know what we like). It was actually our first trip with EP.

Although I was on my phone more because of my husband riding certain rides alone I do the same over at WDW so it's not related to strategy or feeling like I'm constantly popping out my phone to check for stuff.

Universal has always sorta given us a relaxation point we don't get at WDW, although WDW has many more rides I can ride.

I derive fun though in ways that may be boring to other people. For instance I love to see if I can hear my husband's distinctive laughter on rides or people watch or whatever

I got to snap this photo of my husband on Dr. Doom



There was just a more ease we felt. We love WDW no doubt about it but there's not really much relaxation going on unless we're at Nomad Lounge lol or trying to find coffee and chilling out (like we did taking the Skyliner from Epcot over to Riviera for coffee, sitting in the lobby relaxing a bit then taking the Skyliner back to Epcot). So just a different vibe.

 

[NavyDad]

I've seen the video. I think saying you can't add enough attractions is a cop out. They have managed to do it at DLR. Similar number of attractions in 2 parks as WDW has in 4. And that is the greatest reason MP and G+ have worked better there.

And it very much depends on the type of attractions that are added. They are intentionally going for the flashy sort to draw in more people, while making capacity on those attractions a lower priority. They need some major people eater type attractions added at the non MK parks. It seems a daunting proposition at this point becuase they are so woefully behind after years of opening things with lower capacity only after closing other attractions years prior.

I mean, the creator of the video uses data and long established principles of economic theory and queueing theory to clearly show the problems WDW has had since at least the 1990's are a matter of ride capacity not meeting up with demand. As the video shows, opening new rides at WDW does not help the demand/capacity imbalance because whenever a new ride opens, demand increases at least as much as the new capacity has increased.

Comparing WDW and DL does not make much sense because the demand pressure at WDW is so much higher. Everything works better at DL than WDW. Standby lines, ADR's, MP and Genie plus all work better because there is less demand. WDW is such a larger scope and scale than DL with it's massive on-site hotel inventory along with the demand pressure of the east coast (I-95 corridor is one of the riches and most densely populated regions of the world) population centers being in easy travel distance.

As humans we all have emotional viewpoints on things that cloud our judgement. When people are emotional about things it makes them feel better to blame someone and that's normal. At the end of the day though, you can't argue with math. Creating this massive park and branding it with the most popular IP's in the world have created mathematical challenges that literally 5, 6 or 7 generations of Disney executives have tried to overcome. So let's fire the current guy then but isn't he in charge of DL where everything seems to work great? Well, fire him anyway but the next man or woman is going to have to deal with the same challenges. None of these challenges are new and none of their attempts to build their way out of them have resulted in a major change to the equation: capacity not meeting demand.

What are the solutions: Build more rides? Every time they do this demand increases at least as much? Build another gate? The most recently built park, Animal Kingdom, has the 2nd highest attendance and a new park, with even just a modest advertising campaign would likely be met with massive excitement causing another spike in attendance. Raise prices? They do this every year, people complain every year and attendance keeps going up. Maybe the could raise prices by so much that only the most elite members of society could go but that would obviously be very unpopular. Limit attendance artificially? This seems to be a little more likely today with the park reservation system so maybe that is the way to go.....

 

[DCLMP]

I keep hearing people say this. If you don’t like Disney go explore the world. I think a lot of people right now like me are wary of going overseas now. My husvand is a substitute teacher and he has been in high demand this year thanks to many teachers getting stuck overseas for weeks on end after getting Covid on their international trips. Hope that changes soon. We are doing Alaska this summer to avoid a covid test, but with the high demand for Alaska this summer for Covid revenge travel and flight prices gone nuts we are paying more than double the cost of a disney trip at a deluxe hotel the same week, and the cost plus the fact that my kids just aren’t excited/happy about Alaska is stressing me out. I think a lot of why Disney is still drawing so many families despite reductions in the quality if the vacation is that there just aren’t a lot of great, cheap options out there this year.

I have noticed AP rates have been more scarce lately, and rack rates have been more closely matching Disney. Looking at an upcoming weekend I was considering (Juneteenth long weekend), no AP rates available for two out of three UO premier resorts: $609 for RPR and $669 at HRH. You can get PBH for $499 with an AP rate (general public rate $689). Same weekend at Disney world, I could get general public discount rates of $363 for AKL or $496 for Boardwalk. Not a Disney AP so can’t see Disney AP rates but regardless I do think Universal pricing has caught up to Disney and then some.

Covid tests to enter the US were just dropped. That is going to give international travel a big boost.

 

[MomOTwins]

Covid tests to enter the US were just dropped. That is going to give international travel a big boost.

That's amazing! Though now I have travel deposits on our remaining 2022 vacation I can't get back. Ugh. Well, at least I know 2023 is a go for international travel. I'd say Disney better step up its game to attract people like us back, but they will probably be flooded with more international visitors now so they won't care....

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I have noticed AP rates have been more scarce lately, and rack rates have been more closely matching Disney. Looking at an upcoming weekend I was considering (Juneteenth long weekend), no AP rates available for two out of three UO premier resorts: $609 for RPR and $669 at HRH. You can get PBH for $499 with an AP rate (general public rate $689). Same weekend at Disney world, I could get general public discount rates of $363 for AKL or $496 for Boardwalk. Not a Disney AP so can’t see Disney AP rates but regardless I do think Universal pricing has caught up to Disney and then some.

I think in terms of comparing WDW and USO on the resorts it stands to allow for the consideration that Universal adjusted their levels in recent years as they've added more hotels so some hotels moved up in category as they renamed their top level while they've created a whole new category.

WDW has 3 levels at the moment: Deluxe, Moderate and Value. USO has 4: Premier, Preferred (which used to be the top), Prime Value (which used to be just basically Value), and Value.

IMO you would need to compare the highest rack rates of what WDW offers to be considered a tit for tat comparison. In terms of AKL that one I have noticed over time tends to be the least expensive of the Deluxes so that one IMO should be compared to USO's Preferred category. Those dates you're looking (if doing the 17th-20th so covering actually that Monday if people were to have it off) at it's rack rate of $292.33 average for Sapphire Falls (the most expensive of the Preferred and looking at standard room) and rack rate for AKL average of $463 also standard view. That's quite a big difference (and to be fair Universal has quite a big difference between Sapphire Falls pricing and Royal Pacific (usually considered the lowest though not always priced Premier).

Universal's Prime Value could be compared to a mixture of some of the highest priced Values over at Disney and the lowest priced Moderates at Disney.

Universal's highest priced room for the dates you mentioned is $689 average room rate for garden view queen (or king) at Portofino Bay and the highest priced Disney resort at least for the dates you've listed is Contemporary and the only room available is listed as garden wing 1 bedroom suite access at average rate of $1,398. Now that's a very large difference.

IMO Universal's rooms and amenities tend to be of a more higher quality across all of their categories than Disney's but part of that I think is age. Universal's hotels are much newer and they've benefited from listening to what travelers of different levels want as time has gone on.

I don't disagree on some level because we can def. see that Universal is adjusting to an increase of onsite guests so less need for discounts and less need for an initial lower price point as time goes on but I think Disney's price point is still significantly higher for their products they provide.

 

[MomOTwins]

I think in terms of comparing WDW and USO on the resorts it stands to allow for the consideration that Universal adjusted their levels in recent years as they've added more hotels so some hotels moved up in category as they renamed their top level while they've created a whole new category.

WDW has 3 levels at the moment: Deluxe, Moderate and Value. USO has 4: Premier, Preferred (which used to be the top), Prime Value (which used to be just basically Value), and Value.

IMO you would need to compare the highest rack rates of what WDW offers to be considered a tit for tat comparison. In terms of AKL that one I have noticed over time tends to be the least expensive of the Deluxes so that one IMO should be compared to USO's Preferred category. Those dates you're looking (if doing the 17th-20th so covering actually that Monday if people were to have it off) at it's rack rate of $292.33 average for Sapphire Falls (the most expensive of the Preferred and looking at standard room) and rack rate for AKL average of $463 also standard view. That's quite a big difference (and to be fair Universal has quite a big difference between Sapphire Falls pricing and Royal Pacific (usually considered the lowest though not always priced Premier).

Universal's Prime Value could be compared to a mixture of some of the highest priced Values over at Disney and the lowest priced Moderates at Disney.

Universal's highest priced room for the dates you mentioned is $689 average room rate for garden view queen (or king) at Portofino Bay and the highest priced Disney resort at least for the dates you've listed is Contemporary and the only room available is listed as garden wing 1 bedroom suite access at average rate of $1,398. Now that's a very large difference.

IMO Universal's rooms and amenities tend to be of a more higher quality across all of their categories than Disney's but part of that I think is age. Universal's hotels are much newer and they've benefited from listening to what travelers of different levels want as time has gone on.

I don't disagree on some level because we can def. see that Universal is adjusting to an increase of onsite guests so less need for discounts and less need for an initial lower price point as time goes on but I think Disney's price point is still significantly higher for their products they provide.

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on the quality comparison—AKL and BWI are miles better quality than the Universal top tier IMO. But I recognize some of that is personal preference.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on the quality comparison—AKL and BWI are miles better quality than the Universal top tier IMO. But I recognize some of that is personal preference.

I wasn't comparing in that way trying to pit some specific resort at WDW against some specific resort at Universal.

I was comparing across all levels of Universals (Premier, Preferred, Prime Value and Value) with across all levels at WDW (Value, Moderate, Deluxe) this is meaning all things considered.

Universal's hotels are newer over the years, and have accounted for traveler's taste and needs from a modern era much better than Disney's where it feels like they are still grappling with that. Honestly I think Universal having their products out with building new hotels (like Cabana Bay, Aventura and then eventually Endless Summer) forced WDW to rethink their available options that were way behind the curve. Although I think Universal was late to the game with Endless Summer.

Although I neglected to mention I also think Universal benefits from having a partnership with Loews as they are a hotel company.

 

[DCLMP]

That's amazing! Though now I have travel deposits on our remaining 2022 vacation I can't get back. Ugh. Well, at least I know 2023 is a go for international travel. I'd say Disney better step up its game to attract people like us back, but they will probably be flooded with more international visitors now so they won't care....

Yes it should bring some international travelers to WDW, but I think it benefits US travelers leaving the US more. None of the countries I’m visiting this Summer require Vaccines or testing anymore. Germany and the US were the last holdouts. It’s a big relief. Now if only Japan would get onboard. I’ve cancelled two trips to Japan Disneyland. They finally opened up to tourists, but they still have way too many restrictions for me.

 

[DCLMP]

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on the quality comparison—AKL and BWI are miles better quality than the Universal top tier IMO. But I recognize some of that is personal preference.

I agree with that with the exception of PBH. We had amazing service there with housekeeping twice a day. You can’t even get it once a day at WDW.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Yes it should bring some international travelers to WDW, but I think it benefits US travelers leaving the US more. None of the countries I’m visiting this Summer require Vaccines or testing anymore. Germany and the US were the last holdouts. It’s a big relief. Now if only Japan would get onboard. I’ve cancelled two trips to Japan Disneyland. They finally opened up to tourists, but they still have way too many restrictions for me.

I agree and I'm in a similar situation. I want to go to Japan and visit TDL to see the new expansion, but the restrictions for tourism (i.e. having to be supervised at all times on a tour) is not workable for me. Atl least it'll give me time to save up money. I still think TDL is WAY better than WDW so I'm willing to wait to visit again without restrictions.

 

[DCLMP]

I agree and I'm in a similar situation. I want to go to Japan and visit TDL to see the new expansion, but the restrictions for tourism (i.e. having to be supervised at all times on a tour) is not workable for me. Atl least it'll give me time to save up money. I still think TDL is WAY better than WDW so I'm willing to wait to visit again without restrictions.

I’m tentatively thinking maybe Spring or Fall 2023, but I’m not going to plan another trip until I see some changes over there.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I’m tentatively thinking maybe Spring or Fall 2023, but I’m not going to plan another trip until I see some changes over there.

I would do fall 2023 because the new expansion, Fantasy Springs, is going to open sometime in 2023 (I read at the earliest is spring) and there's no doubt that it'll be SUPER crowded. The expansion includes 4 new rides in a completely new land, a new hotel and more dining.

 

[Tasmen]

Agree. We have gone for years and enjoyed every trip. Each trip has its own personality. Especially this last year. But, if you go in with the idea that you will have fun and enjoy it, you will. If you go in with the idea that the crowds are terrible, its too crowded, the lines are too long, you will find that as well. In the last 5 years all 10 trip have been different, but always enjoyable. Just different.

Love the comment 'Each trip has its own personality'. So true. Perspective is super important. We've yet to have a trip we didn't enjoy. Have there been things on our trips I didn't like? Absolutely. But I didn't let those things ruin the experience of the whole.