No the Magic isn’t gone but it’s at 25%

[NavyDad]

I'm going to be completely honest when I say that I would be willing to pay for that Premier Pass Disneyland Paris has if it came to WDW, however it's easy for me to say that when I am a single person with no children. Larger groups and/or people with multiple kids would be reluctant to spend that kind of money on top of park tickets, flights and hotels. Just the thought of not having to deal with competing with other guests in booking rides at 7 am would be what makes me buy it.

I would hope that everyone has at least a basic understanding though of the difference in size, scope and demand pressure of DLP to WDW and how that would affect not only the logistics but also the price of the feature.

If Universal Express Pass is $200 a day on average what do we think that service would cost at WDW? $300? $400?

If you could pay $100 a day to have a ILL pass to every ride in the park, so many people would buy it that it wouldn't be any use.

Then there is the question of what are we really doing here? Replacing a virtual queue with a skip the queue system. That doesn't fix the problem it is just another system that in order to make it work properly at WDW you would need to make it so cost prohibitive, few would buy it.

Again it's not fixing the problem. It's like telling someone who is having problems with the car to just go ahead and be rich and buy a private jet and get a limo service and then you don't have to worry about fixing your car.

 

[NavyDad]

again, it's just perceived value that we're talking about, and Genie as of today is perceived as a value for a lot of people, more people than Disney even thought

That's what doesn't make sense about this entire conversation. Some on here keep insisting that Genie Plus is an inferior product but also that part of the problem it doesn't work well is that too many people are buying it and using it. Just doesn't make sense.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I would hope that everyone has at least a basic understanding though of the difference in size, scope and demand pressure of DLP to WDW and how that would affect not only the logistics but also the price of the feature.

If Universal Express Pass is $200 a day on average what do we think that service would cost at WDW? $300? $400?

If you could pay $100 a day to have a ILL pass to every ride in the park, so many people would buy it that it wouldn't be any use.

Then there is the question of what are we really doing here? Replacing a virtual queue with a skip the queue system. That doesn't fix the problem it is just another system that in order to make it work properly at WDW you would need to make it so cost prohibitive, few would buy it.

Again it's not fixing the problem. It's like telling someone who is having problems with the car to just go ahead and be rich and buy a private jet and get a limo service and then you don't have to worry about fixing your car.

I said in my initial post that I wasn't sure WDW would have a service like this due to the difference in scale from Disneyland Paris to WDW. That's why we're stuck with Genie+.

If WDW had a pass that was $300-400 per day, I would just do the VIP tour or not even bother overall and go somewhere else. But I do agree with your point.

 

[mom2rtk]

I would hope that everyone has at least a basic understanding though of the difference in size, scope and demand pressure of DLP to WDW and how that would affect not only the logistics but also the price of the feature.

If Universal Express Pass is $200 a day on average what do we think that service would cost at WDW? $300? $400?

If you could pay $100 a day to have a ILL pass to every ride in the park, so many people would buy it that it wouldn't be any use.

Then there is the question of what are we really doing here? Replacing a virtual queue with a skip the queue system. That doesn't fix the problem it is just another system that in order to make it work properly at WDW you would need to make it so cost prohibitive, few would buy it.

Again it's not fixing the problem. It's like telling someone who is having problems with the car to just go ahead and be rich and buy a private jet and get a limo service and then you don't have to worry about fixing your car.

Sort of like telling everyone to fix the high price of gas problem right now by purchasing an electric car. There’s not even enough car supply to begin with and certainly not enough charging infrastructure to support it.

 

[NavyDad]

It does seem to be a uniquely Disney problem, people just want what they have gotten for a while there, and don't seem to understand that things can't stay the same with the level of guests that want to go there currently

It's more of a unique to DIS boards and other WDW fan site problem.

The average WDW guests visits roughly 1.5 times in their entire life span.

 

[NavyDad]

I think I may have mentioned it on another thread but really that's because Disney created this beast. It def. is something that waiting in line is a problem for people but that's because Disney does these things:

1) Has a get ahead of the line system that they pushed heavily in marketing (even though yes people went who didn't know it existed or that it was included in admission)
2) Used it like handing candy out on Halloween when the slightest inconvenience (that was largely FP+), ride down you get a pass, a CM said something rude you get a pass, we can't fix something so we'll just throw some passes your way, this guest was mean okay here's some passes
3) Adds it to every single ride it seems like. Universal allows new rides to be standby. Jimmy Fallon did use VQ for a time right after it opened but Hagrid's VelociCoaster have not. Disney's VQ stuff is ugly competition and feeds into this war mentality people get with Disney. What other park do you have people competing for VQ like the system is set up at Disney?

And there's more I'm not even thinking of.

It is an issue that people have issues with using standby but at Disney that's a vicious circle of their own making. It's hard to judge the entirety of guests like they were the ones who are the problem. How can you blame the guest when Disney themselves won't allow something to be standby and by that I mean actually waiting in line rather than VQ without a bypass the line way? And if someone says "well where would they put the line" they don't remember FOP and they haven't looked at Hagrid's when it first opened. Clearly lines can get long and snaking if they let them.

They definitely kept feeding the beast new and different meals, but all of the different iterations of capacity control implemented over decades have been in result of guest dissatisfaction with standing in line. This is not a new problem. Disney had this problem prior to and during E-tickets and all through the different systems.

The fact is American people in particular are far less willing and patient enough to queue up for any length of time compared to most of the rest of the worlds population.

 

[NavyDad]

except you can't plan with G+

You should have told me that before I went during Spring Break, followed the plan I created using Molly's videos and followed it pretty much to the letter and rode more rides than I have ever been able to do in half days in the park.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The fact is American people in particular are far less willing and patient enough to queue up for any length of time compared to most of the rest of the worlds population.

That does not at all jive with what international guests have said. In fact if you go to international parks such as DLP queue just isn't done as much. What we consider line jumping is not the same there at all. Queuing is very much an American thing. We like order, we like clear defined lines. International guests struggle with this concept, you may actually find international guests (even South American ones) pushing ahead of everyone else because it's more in their culture to do so.

I think you're selling Americans way too short here and giving the rest of the world way more credit than is due.

but all of the different iterations of capacity control implemented over decades have been in result of guest dissatisfaction with standing in line.

I disagree on that one. There's grumbling at waiting X amount of time in a line and then there's grumbling at having to wait in line to begin with. The latter is the main problem right now and was mainly fueled during FP+ (especially the later years). You used to stand in line at many theme and amusement parks, it's just how you did it.

For instance prior to 2012 Worlds of Fun, operating since 1973, didn't have a fast lane. In fact it was only the year prior that Cedar Fair (which has owned and operated Worlds of Fun since 1995) even piloted their fast lane to Kings Island. And no it's not about attendance numbers here.

 

[DCLMP]

Again it's not fixing the problem. It's like telling someone who is having problems with the car to just go ahead and be rich and buy a private jet and get a limo service and then you don't have to worry about fixing your car.

Do you mean like telling someone to buy a Tesla so they don't have to worry about gas prices.

 

[Babe the Blue Ox]

You should have told me that before I went during Spring Break, followed the plan I created using Molly's videos and followed it pretty much to the letter and rode more rides than I have ever been able to do in half days in the park.

Same with mid-May. The parks were packed but if you knew what to do and when to do it, Genie + was pretty useful. We got up to 9 per day, hit the big stuff 2 or 3 times each and only had to wait in significant lines (30 mins+) twice. I never purchased a single $ILL and certainly never tried to fight through the early morning crowds.

It’s really as simple as understanding the crowd patterns and staying late. That’s about it.

 

[DCLMP]

That does not at all jive with what international guests have said. In fact if you go to international parks such as DLP queue just isn't done as much. What we consider line jumping is not the same there at all. Queuing is very much an American thing. We like order, we like clear defined lines. International guests struggle with this concept, you may actually find international guests (even South American ones) pushing ahead of everyone else because it's more in their culture to do so.

I think you're selling Americans way too short here and giving the rest of the world way more credit than is due.

OMG, that is so true. Queuing is not the norm in some countries. They don't seem to understand the concept of elevator etiquette either....like the first one there gets the elevator. I figured that out real fast at LHR when I and my young kids just about got trampled waiting for the "Lyft".

 

[NavyDad]

There are a lot of sources regarding queuing psychology. There may be certain countries who are worse but Americans are cited as being near the top of the list for impatience in nearly all of them.

That is all.

 

[Smugpugmug]

That does not at all jive with what international guests have said. In fact if you go to international parks such as DLP queue just isn't done as much. What we consider line jumping is not the same there at all. Queuing is very much an American thing. We like order, we like clear defined lines. International guests struggle with this concept, you may actually find international guests (even South American ones) pushing ahead of everyone else because it's more in their culture to do so.

I think you're selling Americans way too short here and giving the rest of the world way more credit than is due.

I don't think queuing is just an American thing. When I visited Japan, there was a TON of queuing and absolutely no one complained. There was an unofficial queue to enter the subway and if you "cut" that line, you were verbally chastised. When I visited TDL, the lines were long but no one complained and waited anyway. I even saw someone be removed from a line by a Cast Member (I believe it was the line for Indiana Jones?) because they cut the line. They really take being in line to a whole other level.

TDL just introduced a paid skip the line service as well (the last Disney park to do so) so I'm interested to see if anyone buys it.

 

[Jrb1979]

They definitely kept feeding the beast new and different meals, but all of the different iterations of capacity control implemented over decades have been in result of guest dissatisfaction with standing in line. This is not a new problem. Disney had this problem prior to and during E-tickets and all through the different systems.

The fact is American people in particular are far less willing and patient enough to queue up for any length of time compared to most of the rest of the worlds population.

I disagree with that. Go to any other park in the US and the majority of guests have no issue with waiting in line.

 

[NavyDad]

I disagree with that. Go to any other park in the US and the majority of guests have no issue with waiting in line.

That's obviously why so many parks have instituted skip the line system and are able to charge massive prices for it.

 

[Jrb1979]

That's obviously why so many parks have instituted skip the line system and are able to charge massive prices for it.

Yes but at the same time the vast majority don't buy it. The big difference that Disney doesn't understand is you can't please everyone. Genie+ pleases nobody.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don't think queuing is just an American thing. When I visited Japan, there was a TON of queuing and absolutely no one complained. There was an unofficial queue to enter the subway and if you "cut" that line, you were verbally chastised. When I visited TDL, the lines were long but no one complained and waited anyway. I even saw someone be removed from a line by a Cast Member (I believe it was the line for Indiana Jones?) because they cut the line. They really take being in line to a whole other level.

TDL just introduced a paid skip the line service as well (the last Disney park to do so) so I'm interested to see if anyone buys it.

To be fair I didn't say it was just an American thing just that it's very much an American thing. Meaning we value orderly lines and we value a line to begin with, it's what is our norm and this is not necessarily the case everywhere else where queues culturally are not quite the same norm. And it was in contrast to it being said "The fact is American people in particular are far less willing and patient enough to queue up for any length of time compared to most of the rest of the worlds population." Queuing is in the very nature of Americans lol. Without order we get upset, why is there a big blob, hey we were here first, I've been waiting so should you, etc. We have queues for just about everything.

So I'll disagree with the viewpoint that Americans can't wait in line in comparison to the rest of the world, we're built for it. What Disney guests have been primed for over the years is to be in a queue with as little wait as possible, that is not an American thing, that's a Disney thing

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

It's more of a unique to DIS boards and other WDW fan site problem.

The average WDW guests visits roughly 1.5 times in their entire life span.

i completely agree, a lot on these boards think that Disney owes them something. I really do think that the problem has become that WDW has become "too popular", and the people who have been going forever would like then to ensure that they can have the same old trips they're used to

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Yes but at the same time the vast majority don't buy it. The big difference that Disney doesn't understand is you can't please everyone. Genie+ pleases nobody.

i would say it doesn't please anyone on these boards, the broader public, now that's a different story. i don't think there is enough data to say one way or the other

 

[Smugpugmug]

To be fair I didn't say it was just an American thing just that it's very much an American thing. Meaning we value orderly lines and we value a line to begin with, it's what is our norm and this is not necessarily the case everywhere else where queues culturally are not quite the same norm. And it was in contrast to it being said "The fact is American people in particular are far less willing and patient enough to queue up for any length of time compared to most of the rest of the worlds population." Queuing is in the very nature of Americans lol. Without order we get upset, why is there a big blob, hey we were here first, I've been waiting so should you, etc. We have queues for just about everything.

So I'll disagree with the viewpoint that Americans can't wait in line in comparison to the rest of the world, we're built for it. What Disney guests have been primed for over the years is to be in a queue with as little wait as possible, that is not an American thing, that's a Disney thing

That's fair. I think when I read your post, I initially interpreted it as "Queueing is ONLY an American thing" when that is very much not the case. I think there is a half truth to what the previous poster said. I find myself getting antsy in long lines, not just at Disney. For instance when I first got to my hotel in Tokyo, the line to check in almost went out the door and I was super impatient (I was tired and just got off a 12 1/2 hour flight). Meanwhile absolutely no one else in line cared and were perfectly fine waiting. I also find myself being agitated waiting in lines at theme parks and when possible, I budget in the pass such as at Universal. I don't at Six Flags because like Jrb was saying, waiting in lines is the norm and the lines move quick enough due to barely anyone having the skip the line pass.

Definitely agree with your last sentence and I think I'll put an asterisk and say the American Disney parks because like I said the lines at TDL were long (60+ min waits for the big rides) and no one complained.