No the Magic isn’t gone but it’s at 25%

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I also find myself being agitated waiting in lines at theme parks

I only find myself becoming agitated when it's done like Disney does where there's too much priority on the faster lane side, it's not about the fact that I'm waiting 40 mins it's the fact that I only waited 40 mins because they couldn't let the other side wait even 5 mins (over exaggeration but you get my point). It's why my experience at Universal without EP all these years and with EP was just fine and dandy. I don't remember but I don't think you've done Universal without EP? Whereas me I've done SB all these years except once and that was just last month, but we experienced the standby lines one of our three days, and had 2 with EP. Meh waiting in line is fine, but at Disney everyone (or most everyone) seems very grumpy, it's not the act of waiting in line that is driving that behavior, IME.

 

[DCLMP]

I disagree with that. Go to any other park in the US and the majority of guests have no issue with waiting in line.

Some will jump in lines that are three hours long AKA FOP three years ago.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I only find myself becoming agitated when it's done like Disney does where there's too much priority on the faster lane side, it's not about the fact that I'm waiting 40 mins it's the fact that I only waited 40 mins because they couldn't let the other side wait even 5 mins (over exaggeration but you get my point). It's why my experience at Universal without EP all these years and with EP was just fine and dandy. I don't remember but I don't think you've done Universal without EP? Whereas me I've done SB all these years except once and that was just last month, but we experienced the standby lines one of our three days, and had 2 with EP. Meh waiting in line is fine, but at Disney everyone (or most everyone) seems very grumpy, it's not the act of waiting in line that is driving that behavior, IME.

Okay when you put it like that, then I agree. I get agitated by the way in which Disney operates their queues. I haven't been to Six Flags in years (the one nearest me is pretty awful) but I don't remember at all being annoyed by the wait times. And I know why the lines are like that. Like I've mentioned before my sister worked the merge at Big Thunder in MK and she has explained to me what her managers make her do in terms of the ratio between standby and Fastpass.

Yes, I have never been to Universal without the Express pass. I always budget it in however I do not buy a lot of merchandise to compensate for that (I did buy 1 t shirt on my last trip and that's the only Universal merchandise I own). I do 2 parks in 1 day and I have never stayed at the Universal hotels before. I want to someday but my mom is a DVC member and she let me use her points to book an AKL room so that was too good for me to pass up. I do agree that regular Disney guests are less willing to wait in lines. I'll admit that I'm like that sometimes.

 

[DCLMP]

Okay when you put it like that, then I agree. I get agitated by the way in which Disney operates their queues. I haven't been to Six Flags in years (the one nearest me is pretty awful) but I don't remember at all being annoyed by the wait times. And I know why the lines are like that. Like I've mentioned before my sister worked the merge at Big Thunder in MK and she has explained to me what her managers make her do in terms of the ratio between standby and Fastpass.

Yes, I have never been to Universal without the Express pass. I always budget it in however I do not buy a lot of merchandise to compensate for that (I did buy 1 t shirt on my last trip and that's the only Universal merchandise I own). I do 2 parks in 1 day and I have never stayed at the Universal hotels before. I want to someday but my mom is a DVC member and she let me use her points to book an AKL room so that was too good for me to pass up. I do agree that regular Disney guests are less willing to wait in lines. I'll admit that I'm like that sometimes.

If they offered that type of pass at WDW people would compensate by staying offsite, eating off site and not buying merchandise. I think it would backfire on Disney. We spent less money on food and bought no merchandise to make up for the cost of. LL. Im sure I’m not the only one.

 

[Smugpugmug]

If they offered that type of pass at WDW people would compensate by staying offsite, eating off site and not buying merchandise. I think it would backfire on Disney. We spent less money on food and bought no merchandise to make up for the cost of. LL. Im sure I’m not the only one.

I agree with you on that. I mean, I just admitted that I do it for Universal. I stay off their property and I bought one t shirt instead of the $59 Harry Potter wands. Even at WDW, when I was buying Genie+/ILLs I didn't buy a lot of merchandise. I bought a mug for my mom. That's about it.

 

[john7994]

I agree with you on that. I mean, I just admitted that I do it for Universal. I stay off their property and I bought one t shirt instead of the $59 Harry Potter wands. Even at WDW, when I was buying Genie+/ILLs I didn't buy a lot of merchandise. I bought a mug for my mom. That's about it.

You gotta have a wand! People will start thinking you're a muggle. But, you do get points for getting Mom a mug!

 

[Jrb1979]

If they offered that type of pass at WDW people would compensate by staying offsite, eating off site and not buying merchandise. I think it would backfire on Disney. We spent less money on food and bought no merchandise to make up for the cost of. LL. Im sure I’m not the only one.

That would backfire on those who stay off-site as it would have limited availability. Express Pass does sell out. I think that's were the disconnect in this whole discussion is. Disney guests expect to have access to skip the line passes due to FP. Where as every park people accept waiting in line is part of the process.

Instead of looking at the added cost, guests should be looking at how to have a good day while waiting in hour to 2 hour lines.

 

[Smugpugmug]

You gotta have a wand! People will start thinking you're a muggle. But, you do get points for getting Mom a mug!

Haha, I read the HP books as a kid and I'm not super into it as an adult. Wizarding World having that interactivity is nice, albeit locked behind a paywall.

I bought my mom this mug, though despite it being an annual passholder mug, I didn't have to show my AP to buy it? I tried to show the Cast Member my AP at the register and she said no need so I guess anyone can buy these...?

That would backfire on those who stay off-site as it would have limited availability. Express Pass does sell out. I think that's were the disconnect in this whole discussion is. Disney guests expect to have access to skip the line passes due to FP. Where as every park people accept waiting in line is part of the process.

Instead of looking at the added cost, guests should be looking at how to have a good day while waiting in hour to 2 hour lines.

I have been agreeing with you in this whole discussion. I do think that is what it comes down to. I do agree with DCLMP in that if Disney were to raise the price in a skip the line service, more people would opt to stay off site and buy less merchandise/food to compensate for it. That's how I justify the Express Pass in my head. Unless that's not what they were saying at all and I'm confusing the argument.

 

[john7994]

Haha, I read the HP books as a kid and I'm not super into it as an adult. Wizarding World having that interactivity is nice, albeit locked behind a paywall.

I bought my mom this mug, though despite it being an annual passholder mug, I didn't have to show my AP to buy it? I tried to show the Cast Member my AP at the register and she said no need so I guess anyone can buy these...?

I'll layoff on the muggle stuff I like the mug, funny I have had the same experience at Disney with AP "only" stuff - I guess if you act like you own the place, they let you buy whatever you want If they ask for credentials - I pretend to be "confused".

 

[Jrb1979]

Haha, I read the HP books as a kid and I'm not super into it as an adult. Wizarding World having that interactivity is nice, albeit locked behind a paywall.

I bought my mom this mug, though despite it being an annual passholder mug, I didn't have to show my AP to buy it? I tried to show the Cast Member my AP at the register and she said no need so I guess anyone can buy these...?

I have been agreeing with you in this whole discussion. I do think that is what it comes down to. I do agree with DCLMP in that if Disney were to raise the price in a skip the line service, more people would opt to stay off site and buy less merchandise/food to compensate for it. That's how I justify the Express Pass in my head. Unless that's not what they were saying at all and I'm confusing the argument.

That is what they are saying. What I am saying is that will not work due if they limit sales.

 

[Smugpugmug]

That is what they are saying. What I am saying is that will not work due if they limit sales.

Gotcha. Well we'll see what Disney does. Adding "subject to availability" does imply that they plan on limiting sales but who knows what they're planning behind the scenes.

 

[Jrb1979]

Gotcha. Well we'll see what Disney does. Adding "subject to availability" does imply that they plan on limiting sales but who knows what they're planning behind the scenes.

From things I have heard on different sites that is what will eventually happen. They realize that the amount of people buying it isn't working

 

[DCLMP]

That would backfire on those who stay off-site as it would have limited availability. Express Pass does sell out. I think that's were the disconnect in this whole discussion is. Disney guests expect to have access to skip the line passes due to FP. Where as every park people accept waiting in line is part of the process.

Instead of looking at the added cost, guests should be looking at how to have a good day while waiting in hour to 2 hour lines.

I think the disconnect here is that some people think the average family can afford this. Best case scenario we’re in a recession next year. It would be a step up from where we are now. I think a lot of these things were debating will be a mute point. Discretionary spending is going to collapse. If I return next year I’m hoping to see crowds, but I’m not expecting it.

 

[Genie+]

Standing in line, or even a long line, is tolerable. Very long lines back to back to back is annoying. It’s not fun seeing all the popular rides at 70-150 minute waits most of the day. I personally don’t find the proposition of standing 5+ hours to do a few rides enjoyable. Maybe some of this is why the era of FP+ attracted an explosion in park attendance. The day could be broken up with at least a few line skips. We don’t try to do every ride anymore; we like planning a few efficient ways to hit some of the harder rides through ropedrop, EE, night EMH, hard ticket party or DAH, along with either FP+ or G+. The rest of the time, as the mood strikes, we pick easier rides/shows or a long line here and there. This ability made us repeat visitors.

After reading about the G+ dilemma across different visitor types and business interests of WDW, I wish they’d try something like this:

Every ticket holder gets 2 VQs per day (one Tier 1 for the top 2 or 3 rides in each park and one Tier 2 that is everything else) at their reserved park and they pick what/when from availability, have a 30 day window and possibly onsite gets length of trip, and then have some type of paid Genie service. No ILLs. Genie+ gets one more VQ selection from what’s left day of, has access to all the Tier 2 (more shows and M&Gs added), must be purchased length of ticket and since it kind of is one LL plus G+ they can charge $30/day ($50 during peak times). AP can buy in a 4 park package. Makes it an expensive enough commitment that less people feel it’s necessary, especially being they already have 2 VQs in their pocket. The cost commitment is high enough that WDW gets the profitable extra revenue stream and is keeping most guests satiated. Ultimately the purchase should feel like onsite/offsite where both sets of guests feel good about their decision- feels worth it for some but not necessary for others.

While I love the idea of having time slot availability for G+, it may not be possible without having FP+’s no window overlap rule. Not sure which is better/worse or if there’s another solution. The previously mentioned ‘free’ 2 VQs should get choice from time window availability.

 

[Jrb1979]

I think the disconnect here is that some people think the average family can afford this. Best case scenario we’re in a recession next year. It would be a step up from where we are now. I think a lot of these things were debating will be a mute point. Discretionary spending is going to collapse. If I return next year I’m hoping to see crowds, but I’m not expecting it.

Question. Do you go to other parks much outside of Disney or Universal? That's the point in making if so the average person doesn't buy it. The more people buy it the more it doesn't work.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think the disconnect here is that some people think the average family can afford this.

Yeah but families go over to Universal and pay for EP. Although I'll argue that the intentions for many programs out there is that the average family isn't actually expected to purchase them..as in it's not meant to be attainable to everyone..because that defeats the purpose. Not that the average family couldn't choose to purchase it but rather it's not designed with them in mind. Some places are less than others in cost but generally speaking they are meant to be seen as not something everyone is going to purchase.

 

[Jrb1979]

Yeah but families go over to Universal and pay for EP. Although I'll argue that the intentions for many programs out there is that the average family isn't actually expected to purchase them..as in it's not meant to be attainable to everyone..because that defeats the purpose. Not that the average family couldn't choose to purchase it but rather it's not designed with them in mind. Some places are less than others in cost but generally speaking they are meant to be seen as not something everyone is going to purchase.

Exactly and I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Jrb1979]

I do agree that Disney caused a lot of this with FP and guests being used to skipping the line. At the same time I fully believe that the majority of Disney guests don't visit other parks much outside of Universal. Cause of that many expect it to either be available to everyone or to those who stay at certain properties.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I do agree that Disney caused a lot of this with FP and guests being used to skipping the line. At the same time I fully believe that the majority of Disney guests don't visit other parks much outside of Universal. Cause of that many expect it to either be available to everyone or to those who stay at certain properties.

This is something I definitely agree with. As a kid my main park was Six Flags Great Adventure and I'm being completely honest when I say that I didn't know that park even offered a skip the line service until I was a teen LOL absolutely no one used it and I don't remember lines being horrendous. I was able to get on Nitro, El Toro and Kingda Ka within a reasonable timeframe (Kingda Ka was an hour wait though). People did cut the line all the time but that happens at WDW too nowadays. I don't know the state of that park now - I haven't been in at least 6 years.

 

[Jrb1979]

This is something I definitely agree with. As a kid my main park was Six Flags Great Adventure and I'm being completely honest when I say that I didn't know that park even offered a skip the line service until I was a teen LOL absolutely no one used it and I don't remember lines being horrendous. I was able to get on Nitro, El Toro and Kingda Ka within a reasonable timeframe (Kingda Ka was an hour wait though). People did cut the line all the time but that happens at WDW too nowadays. I don't know the state of that park now - I haven't been in at least 6 years.

I do know at Cedar Fair parks they are kicking people out of the park for cutting the line as well as taking their phone out in line. Like you said at the majority of other parks most people don't buy skip the line passes.

A bit off topic I'm a bit jealous of how close you are to Great Adventure. It's one of the parks on my bucket list. I have been to Cedar Point, King's Island and Hershey Park.