The Running Thread -- 2022

[avondale]

Boy I envy you non-klutzy people who can run trails!

You get less klutzy the more you do it. Realize that you're going to trip a lot and maybe do a belly-flop a few times, and it's no big deal. Usually there are fewer people on trails, so probably no one will be there to see it. Brush off the evidence, and who will know? Get a few scrapes and look like a badass.

 

[ColoradoLime]

Do you have a link to the plan? I'm not that familiar with Galloway but I'd be willing to look through the plan to see if I can provide any guidance.

Without looking though, you definitely want to start easy so I wouldn't worry about it sounding "too easy". Things will ramp up over the course of any plan.

It's the runDisney 5k plan: https://www.rundisney.com/running-training-programs/

I'm not a run/walker, but I think I can answer some of your questions. So from your journal, I think you're doing 5k/10k, correct? and I expect you are looking at RunDisney Galloway plans. So I pulled up the 5k plan. And from your comment about pace, I expect you did his 800m test and/or have determined your Long Run pace of 18:30-20:00 min. Assuming this is correct, here's some comments.

First, the "30 minutes" for weekday runs is what you build up to. So yes, follow what the calendar says. Start with 10 minutes on your first day and by the end of training, you will be at 30 minutes.

Next, the way I read his plan is that for these weekday runs, brand new beginning runners would just do 5-10 seconds running and walk the rest of the minute. So if you were supposed to be out there for 10 total minutes--like week 1, day 1--then you would be doing this 5-10 second run/55-50 second walk interval 10 times (for the total of 10 minutes). Over time , you increase the amount of running. So in week three, you increase the run interval up to 10-20 seconds (and the walk down to 50-40 sec). Week 5 you increase the run interval some more to 20-30 sec (and the walk down to 40-30 sec). And of course, if at any time this feels like too much, you can drop back down to the interval that works for you.

For the Long Run on the weekends, that calculated pace he is recommending is for people who have been running for a few months. But similar logic. If the interval you are supposed to do is 5/30, then you would run 5 secs and walk 30 seconds and keep repeating this 35 second cycle for the duration of the long run, e.g. for 1.5 miles during the first week. So you'd be doing that cycle lots of times. BUT, He does still suggest though that beginning runners/trainers stick to a long run pace like the 10-20 sec run interval/50-40 second walk. (Although if you are a real beginner, starting with the 5-10 second run interval, then I expect you'd start with that) Are we confused yet?

I don't know what your running background is, or if you are starting from scratch, but I will say this: Try the first couple weeks of the plan (forget about the temp adjustment for now--it's valid, but just one more variable that you can deal with later) and see how it goes. Then adjust your pace as needed.

The real run/walkers will chime in with info that will probably be much more helpful.

Thanks for this, it definitely helps. I am looking at the 5k plan. I am not a runner (thus the training plan) but also not a beginner so I'm probably making this more complicated that it should be. I already do a combination of walking and jogging but want to use these plans so I can get to a point where I'm doing more jogging than walking and get my pace down. I'll never finish a 1/2 if I can't do a 5k in under an hour. lol

I've done 10ks before so the 10 minute session on Day 1 does seem a bit easy but I think I'll just shut up and follow the plan as written and see what happens!

 

[sandam1]

That's really quite interesting. Did your PT say when it's okay to return to running following an injury? My wife is an MD, not a PT, and she always tells me that my guideline should be pain. If I'm feeling pain, stop running and/or don't run. She rolls her eyes at me when I ask her for a number of days.

Actually, right now he has all of this information available online - and for FREE!!!!

First off, let me preface this by saying that I was flabbergasted to find that this was available. In the past, it was only in the RunSmart app - i.e. the "paid" portion. It is pure GOLD in my humble opinion and I would highly suggest that everyone grab it/download it since I don't know how long it will be available. And as Steve preaches, for every runner, it's not if you're going to get injured, it's when you're going to get injured.

The video introduction is here:

https://fb.watch/cDRZBzDTLs/

And the link to get the information emailed to you is here:

https://runsmartapp.com/protocol-5

I like the pain scale as it gives me a reference point when I go in and try to explain what is going on, instead of long-winded "well, it kind of hurts, but I'm not sure if it's really pain" descriptions. It also gives me clear(er) guidelines about what is okay to do and what isn't. I know that 0-2 is okay, 3 is getting me into trouble, and 4-5 is shut it down NOW.

One other "lightbulb" moment that I had post-Dopey this year was that every return-to-run after a long race should start with the ladder drill and 10-minute test run. If I can't do that without feeling it, I have no business running. I see some many people do the "I'm going to give it x days and then run" without anything to back up that determination. Science for the win!

 

[HangWithMerida]

ATTQOTD: I haven't really felt that burnt-out feeling you're talking about, although I can imagine it. I tend to do a lot of different types of activities, so sometimes I get more of a burn-out of "doing things" in general.

Oh, I get the general burnout of "doing things" for sure. We tend to be busy and I like it that way most of the time. But after a few months I will hit a hard wall where I just don't want to leave the house for a few days. Usually a weekend of no plans, plenty of tv, and general laziness is enough to recharge me.

 

[camaker]

Boy I envy you non-klutzy people who can run trails!

I don't think this is a klutzy issue as much as a concentration issue. In road running, it's possible to set your legs on cruise, hit an easy rhythm, and almost mentally check out on what the feet and legs are doing. It's one of the things that I love about road racing.

On the trails you have to be alert and focused on every footfall you make. Let that concentration slip and a root or rock or patch of mud will make you pay. I find trail running to be far more mentally taxing because of that.

 

[HangWithMerida]

You get less klutzy the more you do it. Realize that you're going to trip a lot and maybe do a belly-flop a few times, and it's no big deal. Usually there are fewer people on trails, so probably no one will be there to see it. Brush off the evidence, and who will know? Get a few scrapes and look like a badass.

Absolutely true! And, it forces you to slow down, which is helpful for me. I tend to run trails more in the summer since the weather affects my pace anyway and trails tend to be shadier which is a bonus!

 

[dis_or_dat]

QOTD: I have a half-marathon in 3 weeks, ending a period of pretty much Constant Training for Something since July. As I have complained on this thread recently, I'm tired. Some of it is training so continuously, some of it is just a long stretch of work stuff also.

My question is: How long do you folks take off when you feel this way? I haven't had a motivation lapse in years, and I'm hoping with a little break I'll be refreshed. Also just stopping running altogether is scary so how do you deal with a break? Doing my best to not sign up for ANY races until I get my groove back.

Training burn out is real. You're at the home stretch and peak or just about post peak of your training so you're at the toughest part. But continuously training really burns me out. I kept training for a marathon that was delayed, then virtual, and then I got into it again but it was earlier than usual. So I felt like I was training for 1.5 years straight. After your half, take a few weeks off but stay active and then slowly get back into running. I like doing short distances then it doesn't feel like running is consuming your life.

 

[kps7795]

Actually, right now he has all of this information available online - and for FREE!!!!

First off, let me preface this by saying that I was flabbergasted to find that this was available. In the past, it was only in the RunSmart app - i.e. the "paid" portion. It is pure GOLD in my humble opinion and I would highly suggest that everyone grab it/download it since I don't know how long it will be available. And as Steve preaches, for every runner, it's not if you're going to get injured, it's when you're going to get injured.

The video introduction is here:

https://fb.watch/cDRZBzDTLs/

And the link to get the information emailed to you is here:

https://runsmartapp.com/protocol-5

I like the pain scale as it gives me a reference point when I go in and try to explain what is going on, instead of long-winded "well, it kind of hurts, but I'm not sure if it's really pain" descriptions. It also gives me clear(er) guidelines about what is okay to do and what isn't. I know that 0-2 is okay, 3 is getting me into trouble, and 4-5 is shut it down NOW.

One other "lightbulb" moment that I had post-Dopey this year was that every return-to-run after a long race should start with the ladder drill and 10-minute test run. If I can't do that without feeling it, I have no business running. I see some many people do the "I'm going to give it x days and then run" without anything to back up that determination. Science for the win!

What about those of us who are in denial that they are actually 48 years old? I look forward to watching his webinar after work. Thank you for sharing it.

 

[GreatLakes]

You get less klutzy the more you do it. Realize that you're going to trip a lot and maybe do a belly-flop a few times, and it's no big deal. Usually there are fewer people on trails, so probably no one will be there to see it. Brush off the evidence, and who will know? Get a few scrapes and look like a badass.

I don't think this is a klutzy issue as much as a concentration issue. In road running, it's possible to set your legs on cruise, hit an easy rhythm, and almost mentally check out on what the feet and legs are doing. It's one of the things that I love about road racing.

On the trails you have to be alert and focused on every footfall you make. Let that concentration slip and a root or rock or patch of mud will make you pay. I find trail running to be far more mentally taxing because of that.

I have to agree with both of these. I didn't start trails until about 10 years in and you learn a few things the hard way. One of the great things about trails is you have to really pay attention with each step, plan ahead when it is a steep descent, and it strengthens your ankles.

I really like the combination of a difficult aerobic effort and the need to also be calculating your route as you go. I don't mean not taking a wrong turn as much as making sure you are aware where your next three footfalls are likely to me, where on a rock you will need to land to keep from rolling an ankle, or plotting the best way through a shallow stream crossing. Give it a try and if trail running isn't really for you hiking can also be of great benefit. It will be different than running but a way to benefit from nature, get some more time on the legs under load, and still change up the routine.

 

[sandam1]

What about those of us who are in denial that they are actually 48 years old?

Accepting that you have a problem is the first step in solving it.

I tend to learn things the hard way and my DNF for the marathon at MW 2022 (and honestly, the entire training for that race) was a huge reality check. I'm determined to take the lessons that I learned from that race and not make the same mistakes a second time. Of course, I reserve the right to make different ones.

 

[Kerry1957]

You get less klutzy the more you do it. Realize that you're going to trip a lot and maybe do a belly-flop a few times, and it's no big deal. Usually there are fewer people on trails, so probably no one will be there to see it. Brush off the evidence, and who will know? Get a few scrapes and look like a badass.

Love the attitude! I would add that I have pretty well mastered the "tuck and roll" when falling. From my rollerblading days 25-30 years ago I learned not to stick out my arms to break the fall.

I think a key point in starting trail running is starting on the right trail. I started and still do 90% of my training on crushed limestone or packed dirt trails that are at least 6-feet wide. Leave the gnarly, rooty, steep hilly single track BMX bicycle trails until you are comfortable running "easy" trails. I now probably fall about once every 200-300 miles. That is probably about the same frequency as I would trip on a break in the concrete/asphalt if I was running streets and sidewalks

Edit to add I started running tails at age 60.

 

[The Expert]

QOTD: I have a half-marathon in 3 weeks, ending a period of pretty much Constant Training for Something since July. As I have complained on this thread recently, I'm tired. Some of it is training so continuously, some of it is just a long stretch of work stuff also.

My question is: How long do you folks take off when you feel this way? I haven't had a motivation lapse in years, and I'm hoping with a little break I'll be refreshed. Also just stopping running altogether is scary so how do you deal with a break? Doing my best to not sign up for ANY races until I get my groove back.

When I first got into running I signed up for ALLLL the things. In 2017, did all three races at Princess in February, the 10K and Half at Tinkerbell in May, a July 10K, the 10K and Half at Disney Paris in September and the RnR Half in Vegas in November. I was training non stop, just rolling from one thing to another and I was EXHAUSTED. I cut way back on training between Paris and RnR and paid for it at that race. After RnR, I was so burned out I just stopped running entirely for two or three months. I had signed up for all three races at Star Wars that April or May and did them very undertrained. Then I stopped again for basically a year.

I do NOT recommend this method! I was so annoyed at myself for having to start over that I vowed never again to set myself up for that kind of failure. I am now very careful to plan my races out and include the training cycles, and I never stop entirely for more than a few weeks. Even if I'm walking, staying in the habit of doing something at least twice a week keeps me from dropping it entirely. And I always know when my next training cycle should start so I can ebb and flow naturally through those down times.

 

[GuinnessRunner]

You get less klutzy the more you do it. Realize that you're going to trip a lot and maybe do a belly-flop a few times, and it's no big deal. Usually there are fewer people on trails, so probably no one will be there to see it. Brush off the evidence, and who will know? Get a few scrapes and look like a badass.

Agree with this and really liked the solitude of trail running. What I also discovered unfortunately is that my fear of snakes was greater than my love for trail running. Once it started to get warm down here in the early spring I would start seeing them stretched across single track trail sunning themselves (seeing the first snake signaled the end to my trail season until the following winter). My friends remind me that most aren't venomous (although once or twice they were copperheads) and won't bother me, but I decided that if I have a heart attack while running, I want it to be because I was setting a PR or something more exciting than be scared silly by what I thought with my blurry vision was a stick or breaking my ankle trying to set a new high jump record to avoid the things. If anyone can solve that issue for me, I would be a trail convert almost full time!

 

[Kerry1957]

I have not seen many snakes here in suburban Chicago, bit I did round a tight bend in the trail on Monday and came face to face with a large coyote getting ready to pounce on a duck sitting in a puddle on the trail. OK, face to face was really about 30 feet, but it seemed closer at the time. I think we both set new high jump records, and the coyote was back deep into the woods in about 3 seconds. I only see one or two a year so it was a surprise.

The deer are plentiful and so tame that you can get within about 10 feet before they scamper off.

 

[Blue Caterpillar]

Snakes have just started coming out here (very rural Arizona). We have rattlesnakes, but I try run where there is space on both sides of where I am running. In the summer I'm too scared to go on densely vegetated paths. But there are lots of dirt farm/mining roads that are rarely traveled so I can run right in the middle, were I can see snakes easily, and most likely will not disturb any sleeping. Sadly the only snake I have seen so far this season was a, very large king snake that had been run over.

 

[SheHulk]

When I first got into running I signed up for ALLLL the things. In 2017, did all three races at Princess in February, the 10K and Half at Tinkerbell in May, a July 10K, the 10K and Half at Disney Paris in September and the RnR Half in Vegas in November. I was training non stop, just rolling from one thing to another and I was EXHAUSTED. I cut way back on training between Paris and RnR and paid for it at that race. After RnR, I was so burned out I just stopped running entirely for two or three months. I had signed up for all three races at Star Wars that April or May and did them very undertrained. Then I stopped again for basically a year.

I do NOT recommend this method! I was so annoyed at myself for having to start over that I vowed never again to set myself up for that kind of failure. I am now very careful to plan my races out and include the training cycles, and I never stop entirely for more than a few weeks. Even if I'm walking, staying in the habit of doing something at least twice a week keeps me from dropping it entirely. And I always know when my next training cycle should start so I can ebb and flow naturally through those down times.

Haha yes I am not new to the running rodeo, but I definitely suffered from irrational exuberance once races started coming back post-covid. I figured, who knows when it will all be taken away again, and besides, I'm 50, who knows how much longer *I'll* be able to do this. So I signed up for every. darn. thing.

Honestly one real source of mental burnout is how many of my races are tied to a vacation. Like our last 2 WDW trips were the MW and Princess race weekends. So instead of doing everything with my family I was going to bed early and getting up at 2am. My HM is a girls' weekend trip, but my friends are injured so I am the only one actually racing now. Which means getting up and out for a 7am start while everyone else is sleeping. And probably going to bed way earlier than everyone else the night before. I won't make that mistake again. Too many vacation races where I'm the only one actually racing.

 

[avondale]

I don't think this is a klutzy issue as much as a concentration issue. In road running, it's possible to set your legs on cruise, hit an easy rhythm, and almost mentally check out on what the feet and legs are doing. It's one of the things that I love about road racing.

On the trails you have to be alert and focused on every footfall you make. Let that concentration slip and a root or rock or patch of mud will make you pay. I find trail running to be far more mentally taxing because of that.

This is exactly it. I've only caught a toe and completely fallen maybe twice, but have caught a toe and then kept myself from falling many, many times. Almost every time, if I think about it, I had lost my concentration soon before I tripped - thinking about what I'm going to do after the run, looking at my watch, thinking about the dog and person I just passed, etc. - I wasn't paying attention. It's not that I have to be maniacally focused 6 feet ahead of me but that I can't zone out.

As someone else said, it's really nice to be out in nature. Personally I prefer the trail to be as empty as possible and far away from human noises as possible.

 

[avondale]

Agree with this and really liked the solitude of trail running. What I also discovered unfortunately is that my fear of snakes was greater than my love for trail running. Once it started to get warm down here in the early spring I would start seeing them stretched across single track trail sunning themselves (seeing the first snake signaled the end to my trail season until the following winter). My friends remind me that most aren't venomous (although once or twice they were copperheads) and won't bother me, but I decided that if I have a heart attack while running, I want it to be because I was setting a PR or something more exciting than be scared silly by what I thought with my blurry vision was a stick or breaking my ankle trying to set a new high jump record to avoid the things. If anyone can solve that issue for me, I would be a trail convert almost full time!

Funny thing is that I'm not sure I've ever seen a snake on a "trail" - only when I've run on paved surfaces. To be sure, at the moment, I still have more time spent running on pavement than trails.

Two most memorable incidents: during a HM road race on Maryland's eastern shore, a rather large black snake decided to dart across the rural paved road during the race. I guess he saw a gap in the runners and went for it! All of us right around there gave a little shriek and then were like, "Did you see that?!"

Second: on the Maryland portion of the paved and heavily-used Rock Creek Trail, another black snake leisurely slithered across the trail. It was early spring so the underbrush hadn't grown in yet. I could see him slither up to a small tree/shrub - he slithered up the thin trunk and out on to a nearly horizontal branch about three feet off the ground and hung out until I left. I know snakes can do that sort of thing, but watching him coil up the trunk with ease gave me the willies!

 

[camaker]

Agree with this and really liked the solitude of trail running. What I also discovered unfortunately is that my fear of snakes was greater than my love for trail running. Once it started to get warm down here in the early spring I would start seeing them stretched across single track trail sunning themselves (seeing the first snake signaled the end to my trail season until the following winter). My friends remind me that most aren't venomous (although once or twice they were copperheads) and won't bother me, but I decided that if I have a heart attack while running, I want it to be because I was setting a PR or something more exciting than be scared silly by what I thought with my blurry vision was a stick or breaking my ankle trying to set a new high jump record to avoid the things. If anyone can solve that issue for me, I would be a trail convert almost full time!

I rarely see snakes on my runs, but I see them regularly on my lunchtime greenway walks. I thought I’d share one of my favorites with you. The dog provides a nice sense of scale!

 

[SheHulk]

we get snakes all the time on our local rail trail, only in the early spring. One time my son spotted what I can only describe as a.... ball of snakes writhing together? One of the more vivid images I can still bring up in memory.

PS please don't tell me if they were mating or something weird like that... I don't want to know!