Riviera Pricing Released

[DougEMG]

https://www.disboards.com/threads/m...n-dated-01-19-19.3734585/page-6#post-60275465

According to this post, which is accurate and no reason not to think so since its coming from the filings with the state

"Also be aware that according to the documents I have seen (I cannot figure out how I can provide any pages on the site), the Riviera Resort is going to have 341 vacation homes consisting of: 12 GVs, 148 2BR lock-offs, 90 dedicated 2BRs, 29 dedicated 1BRs, 38 dedicated studios, and 24 Tower Studios."

So only a small amount of dedicated studios but a large amount of 2BR lock-offs.

Lots of lock-offs and few dedicated 1 beds and studios, so manipulating the lock-off premium will be easy.

 

[ljmiii]

Why would anyone buy into a property where that's the only place you could stay? I just don't get it.

I own at BCV, BLT, and VGC and have stayed at...wait for it...BCV, BLT, and VGC. On the other hand, buying somewhere that if I don't get my room at 11 months I CAN'T switch at 7 does frighten me. But if someone knew they wanted to stay at only Riviera and weren't tied to certain dates then a resale Riviera contract might make sense for them.

 

[ELMC]

Why would anyone buy into a property where that's the only place you could stay? I just don't get it.

I own at BLT and BWV. Those are the only two locations I have stayed at in my last 20 trips to WDW. Some people are creatures of habit.

But there's also a little more flexibility. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you can still exchange into RCI? You can also rent out your points and spend that money on anything. So while I see your point and agree that options are always good, some people don't really need or want options.

 

[Brett Wyman]

Each to his own. But I can't wrap my brain around trapping yourself at a single property. Especially at that cost.

 

[ELMC]

Each to his own. But I can't wrap my brain around trapping yourself at a single property. Especially at that cost.

I hear you. But think about it in reverse. Would you pay $182 for Copper Creek direct only to trade out for SSR or OKW? If you are looking at things through the value lens and you're paying top dollar for a specific resort, odds are you're not going to want to stay anywhere else. But like you said...to each his own. My biggest mistake in the past has been projecting my motivations on others. I've found that people buy or don't buy for many different reasons.

 

[DougEMG]

I'll opine on number one, because it's really the only one in the list that I have formed an opinion about.

I think the resale price is going to be higher. The people who are buying Riviera are doing so because they want to stay there. They want the 11 month window for Tower Studios. They want home resort advantage in general. So for many resale buyers, the restrictions won't actually matter. Their choice will essentially be binary. Purchase Riviera direct for $170+ a point. Purchase Riviera resale for $xx a point. The real question is, for those people who don't care about trading and are buying to stay at this beautiful new resort, how much of a discount would be necessary in order to forego all of the other benefits that come from buying direct. My guess is that it is less than 50%.

The other issue is that many of the contracts that go up for resale might be financed, which means that sellers will have a floor price that they can go down to before it just easier to let Disney foreclose. The thing I keep trying to remember in all of this is that my motivations are not necessarily other people's motivations. I'm not particularly interested in Riviera for my own personal use. I'm also deeply troubled by the resale restrictions. Not everybody agrees or cares.

I love buying resale, but I would never touch Riviera unless it had a huge discount in resale pricing. And if prices got that low, DVC would probably just ROFR the contracts and resell them as direct.

My biggest concern is that you could get frozen out of using your points for the room size you are looking for. I just don't trust DVC to not mess around with the booking windows for resale buyers at Riviera. Last year I booked a short notice trip (4 months out) for Feb, the only thing available was SSR and I was glad to get it. If I was a resale Riviera owner, I wouldn't have been able to use my points there. Resale owners at the Riviera had better ALWAYS book very early or they stand a good chance of getting shut out of a room.

So I'm definitely in the camp that thinks that eventually Riviera resale is going to be worth less than SSR resale. Plus those dues combined with the high point chart really stink.

 

[ljmiii]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you can still exchange into RCI?

My understanding is that the ability to restrict resale buyers from making RCI exchanges was added to the Riviera POS (not that I've heard Disney is currently planning to do so). Also, I know resorts can prevent RCI trades back into an owner's original resort though I don't know if Disney does this currently.

 

[Brett Wyman]

I hear you. But think about it in reverse. Would you pay $182 for Copper Creek direct only to trade out for SSR or OKW? If you are looking at things through the value lens and you're paying top dollar for a specific resort, odds are you're not going to want to stay anywhere else. But like you said...to each his own. My biggest mistake in the past has been projecting my motivations on others. I've found that people buy or don't buy for many different reasons.

I would 100% over paying the same at a place you're locked in to. Because at least the option IS there. Sure studios are gone, but if you own enough points for a one bedroom the 7-month window is not so scary. Repeating myself, but each to his own. Our travel style is we move between different properties each time we visit. We just really enjoy seeing all of the DVC properties.

I guess it doesn't help that I have zero interest in Riviera. I'm much more excited about Reflections.

 

[cedricandsophie]

A one bedroom at Rivera during the time we usually go to aulani is 8 per day higher than a one bedroom ocean view at aulani. That’s crazy to me. We got in at aulani at opening prices with the subsidized dues. And we go to DW the first two weeks in March. The price for a one bedroom at Rivera per night dur8ng that same time is significantly higher per night in one of the standard room than we pay at OKW for a one bedroom suite close to hospitality house. OKW has huge suites, boat to Disney springs, great pool and activities staff, tennis court, other activities. It’s even higher than a one bedroom club level at AK. The only thing I will use Rivera for is maybe trying out the new restaurant on the roof.

 

[DougEMG]

In the past there have been owners who have bought new resorts for the express purpose of using the points for a 1-5 years and then selling with the expectation of getting close to what they originally paid or even more. Anyone here planning to do that with the Riviera? Anyone think that will even work this time around?

 

[jerseyduke]

Historically, resale contracts haven't dropped significantly until much longer after sales begin. So 5 years yes, 1 year no. [comparatively] hold its value).

Agreed, but historically, resale contracts have not been restricted to one and only one resort. And now, no perks on top of that.
Historically, resale contracts were good at all resorts, so they were "almost as good as" direct points. And, if you had some direct points to get your APs, Moonlght Magic, etc, etc, they were all but as good as direct points.

Riviera resale points are (will be) a totally unique animal.

Maybe it won't make a difference. But for me, I will not pay any kind of premium for points that are only good at one resort. I'd only buy them at a discount. Unless of course it was the resort I HAVE to stay at. And Dis has too many I like for there to be only one in that category.

But I have been wrong before.

 

[Aussie RJ]

Are we overstating the restrictions? I mean won’t this simply create a new method of renting for David’s? Riviera resale owner trades with restricted L14 owner with a commission in the middle for David’s..

 

[skippytx]

I don't see the market falling out of the bottom for Riviera. It takes a couple years for resale contracts to start showing up. There's been a few Copper Creek, but not many. Poly resale is out there, but it took a while for it to get going. They'll be still selling Riv in a year, so they'll just ROFR any resale contracts and sell them off as new points again. In no scenarios do I see cheap 80 dollar resale points anytime in the next 5 years or so. It might happen later on down the road, but probably still unlikely. I expect them to settle in the 110's or so if I had to guess.

Swapping into Riviera (for those eligible to) will probably be as hard as it was for any new DVC resort. People will want to try it, and depending on how the gondola situation works out, the location could be a good one. What's concerning though is the Riviera direct buyers can swap into the L14 properties, but there will be a point where many L14 owners cannot swap into Riviera. Every new DVC property has increased competition for the Epcot and Monorail resorts at the 7 month mark, but removing the ability to swap into Riviera imbalances the system. Probably won't be an issue at first, but 10 or 20 years down the road it could be.

I don't think perks or other restrictions will bother the saavy resale DVC purchaser. Most people are (and should be!) buying contracts for the 11 month booking advantage at the property they want to stay at. Perks are nice, but you're a fool if you buy into DVC for the perks that can be reduced or taken away at any time.

Epcot area resorts are in very high demand right now. People are paying 225 a point direct for Beach Club. The festivals at Epcot are a huge draw for a lot of folks. I think once there is more information out there, Riviera will be in high demand as well. Riv won't be walking distance to Epcot, but a 5 minute ride on the high capacity gondola system to IG is about as close as it gets.

 

[Katie L]

Are we overstating the restrictions? I mean won’t this simply create a new method of renting for David’s? Riviera resale owner trades with restricted L14 owner with a commission in the middle for David’s..

The whole reason I would buy DVC is to avoid the rental world. Nothing against David's - at ALL - but I want to book whatever might be available at 7 months. Hah.

 

[Brett Wyman]

People are paying 225 a point direct for Beach Club.

I would NOT want these people to be in charge of my finances.

 

[crvetter]

Swapping into Riviera (for those eligible to) will probably be as hard as it was for any new DVC resort. People will want to try it, and depending on how the gondola situation works out, the location could be a good one. What's concerning though is the Riviera direct buyers can swap into the L14 properties, but there will be a point where many L14 owners cannot swap into Riviera. Every new DVC property has increased competition for the Epcot and Monorail resorts at the 7 month mark, but removing the ability to swap into Riviera imbalances the system. Probably won't be an issue at first, but 10 or 20 years down the road it could be.

I personally think this isn't going to be an unfair advantage to anyone. As Riviera will have a much smaller pool of owners than all the L14 so it's impact on the L14 is much smaller than the L14 will have on it. So a much greater number of L14 owners, eligible to trade into Riviera, than Riviera would have to resell. Though the resell rate between the two sets (Riviera vs L14) will probably be similar so the imbalance won't be a big issue.

As for any imbalance that might occur once we hit 7 months any rules on guaranteeing access to a one to one use right is out the window anyways.

 

[Aussie RJ]

The whole reason I would buy DVC is to avoid the rental world. Nothing against David's - at ALL - but I want to book whatever might be available at 7 months. Hah.

Yeah but I would see this a a transaction completed prior to 7 months. And I’m sure owners would setup a private trading group

 

[Drewferin]

Aside from Riviera Studios fitting 5 this resort point chart is extremely high compared to AKV.

As a family of 5, I can stay in early June at AKV for 200 point for 7 nights vs 286 points at Riviera. I can't imagine that the 86 point difference is remotely worth it. I'm a strong fan of AKV for sleeping around and also having a great resort as a fall back plan. I have also found the white rhino (2 bdr value) this year due to luck.

 

[Madame]

I personally think this isn't going to be an unfair advantage to anyone. As Riviera will have a much smaller pool of owners than all the L14 so it's impact on the L14 is much smaller than the L14 will have on it. So a much greater number of L14 owners, eligible to trade into Riviera, than Riviera would have to resell. Though the resell rate between the two sets (Riviera vs L14) will probably be similar so the imbalance won't be a big issue.

As for any imbalance that might occur once we hit 7 months any rules on guaranteeing access to a one to one use right is out the window anyways.

But they won’t be looking to book OKW, SSR, AKV etc. They’ll want monorail or IG. That’s where it’s not fair.

A new resale BCV owner can’t trade into DRR, but DRR direct owners can trade into their resort. It’s ridiculous.

 

[crvetter]

But they won’t be looking to book OKW, SSR, AKV etc. They’ll want monorail or IG. That’s where it’s not fair.

A new resale BCV owner can’t trade into DRR, but DRR direct owners can trade into their resort. It’s ridiculous.

Even under that hypothetical, it's still a much smaller pool than those, and many monorail owners would be interested in switching to Riviera because of the Epcot/HS access (BCV/BWV being difficult alread). Imagine all the OKW, SSW, AKV that want to trade into Riviera to be on the Gondola, so an equal burden will be on each of the two sets (Riviera vs L14).

And if no one finds DRR appealing to stay at, the points will eventually go to resale cheap the buyers can't book at L14 and are locked into DRR . Which IMO if this happens its one of the intended consequences of the DVC resale restrictions (aside from straight monetary advantages for DVC), isolating Riviera resale owners buying points cheap to flood Monorail resorts.