Permit Filed: France Pavilion at Epcot

[umichigan10]

I have to agree...having worked under late Eisner...I see a ton of similarities.

The difference now is there's cranes everywhere...which is an "improvement" on one side...

But it's also a jumbled exercise in catching up without a coherent property wide strategy...

After the first proxy move against Eisner (2003)...he threw a podium up in DAK and gave joe rohde $300 mil to blow on that rollercoaster with the strobe lights...

"Hey, we greenlit that big rollercoaster thing...what do you want?" Was his paraphrased comment shortly thereafter...

I see the same kinda "plans" now. The reactionary move in AK...Star Wars "ahead of schedule" based on their subtle whining during the announcement...and moves in Epcot that seem to not really address the problems that they need a master plan approach...systematic and thematically correct.

Eisner under built animal kingdom and tried to address his problem at least. I love Everest as a ride, but they totally botched the yeti and I don't think that warrants anymore discussion.

Iger will just throw up whatever he wants wherever he wants to bolster his status as he goes into the sunset. He doesn't care where it goes, how it fits, or how it impacts the long run. Don't get me wrong, I can't complain about Star Wars I'm so excited for it, but I'm also worried about what happens to Epcot and the fact the studios need more capacity and investment after these expansions and not be neglected for another 5 years

 

[Planogirl]

Wow...and people call ME a bummer around here?

...I love Epcot, and I love the French pavilion...so I'm hoping for the best.

Honestly...I hope no major changes are made to either the street shops or impressions (maybe a refresh)...that's what I'm hoping for...

...honestly...they owe me after putting AAs into a clunky boat ride and "elsa's greatest hits"...that was a one and done.

I know people hammer the film...but I have to say: what's wrong with you? It's such a piece of nostalgia to me. Maybe not even French nostalgia...but Epcot nostalgia...I dunno...that's the kinda thing that will be appreciated after it's gone when people whine for cartoons and princesses. Doesn't take much to break things.

I get bitter sometimes. More importantly I think that it could happen again at ANY of the pavilions. It's worth keeping in mind.

France is great. I hope that it stays that way, rat included.

 

[marcyleecorgan]

Hercules and Hunchback are duds? I think many would disagree with you there. Others like Treasure Island or whatever it is, is a dud.

*clings to her beloved Ron & Jon movies*

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Personally I think Hercules is a great film. Hunchback its been a while. Both are in the new Happily Ever After fireworks show. Hunchback has a large role. Hunchback used to have a show in DHS.

I think Hercules is a very underappreciated movie - really good style. Just came out when Disney animation was going through a lull and not appreciated by audiences.

Hunchback I think had become more beloved from the stage productions that came after the movie. The music in the film (and then expanded in the stage productions) are top notch - but the film itself isn't that great - very uneven, lots of flaws.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Eisner under built animal kingdom and tried to address his problem at least. I love Everest as a ride, but they totally botched the yeti and I don't think that warrants anymore discussion.

Iger will just throw up whatever he wants wherever he wants to bolster his status as he goes into the sunset. He doesn't care where it goes, how it fits, or how it impacts the long run. Don't get me wrong, I can't complain about Star Wars I'm so excited for it, but I'm also worried about what happens to Epcot and the fact the studios need more capacity and investment after these expansions and not be neglected for another 5 years

...or DAK for that matter...

I think the conversation will be starting very soon once the avatar dust starts to settle that involves the question: "ok, now what?"

I suspected that from the start...avatar and rivers of light is not gonna bring the kind of all day crowds they need from an operational standpoint...

They need another major land expansion and probably to gut dinoland and tweak Asia to make if a true full day park and have business commensurate with it.

 

[umichigan10]

...or DAK for that matter...

I think the conversation will be starting very soon once the avatar dust starts to settle that involves the question: "ok, now what?"

I suspected that from the start...avatar and rivers of light is not gonna bring the kind of all day crowds they need from an operational standpoint...

They need another major land expansion and probably to gut dinoland and tweak Asia to make if a true full day park and have business commensurate with it.

If they added another land (Australia please) with an e ticket I think they'd be alright. Depends how long they wanna sit pat with things for

 

[rteetz]

...or DAK for that matter...

I think the conversation will be starting very soon once the avatar dust starts to settle that involves the question: "ok, now what?"

I suspected that from the start...avatar and rivers of light is not gonna bring the kind of all day crowds they need from an operational standpoint...

They need another major land expansion and probably to gut dinoland and tweak Asia to make if a true full day park and have business commensurate with it.

I don't see how it isn't a full day park but that's just me I guess.

 

[umichigan10]

I don't see how it isn't a full day park but that's just me I guess.

I've grown to appreciate it more but it all matters if you're into strictly "rides" or can enjoy other things like the trails, side paths, etc.

 

[rteetz]

I've grown to appreciate it more but it all matters if you're into strictly "rides" or can enjoy other things like the trails, side paths, etc.

Which is exactly why I love AK. It's so much more than rides.

 

[Moliphino]

I think Hercules is a very underappreciated movie - really good style. Just came out when Disney animation was going through a lull and not appreciated by audiences.

Hunchback I think had become more beloved from the stage productions that came after the movie. The music in the film (and then expanded in the stage productions) are top notch - but the film itself isn't that great - very uneven, lots of flaws.

The problem with Hunchback is that it is so not a kids movie. I was 9 when it came out, thought it was OK. I did love the stage show at MGM. Watched the movie again in my later teens and loved it (as you might be able to tell from my avatar).

 

[umichigan10]

Which is exactly why I love AK. It's so much more than rides.

It's probably the themiest theme park that I've ever been to if that makes sense

 

[Dfan79]

No offense Moliphino, but I think Hunchback is a lousy movie. It's boring, the hour and 35 minute runtime felt like an eternity. It feels more like a broadway play than a family film. Despite the fact that they tossed in the gargoyles to still appear as one. I don't think it is suitable for children or even some adults.

Frollo is too sexually obsessed with Esmeralda. The scenes where he sings of his torment would be strange even in a Tarantino musical. Plus I quickly lose my sympathy for Quasimodo, he's just a punching bag for most of it. I kinda wished Frollo just tossed him in the river at the beginning.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

It's probably the themiest theme park that I've ever been to if that makes sense

it absolutely makes sense - and Pandora I think even to more of an extreme as no signs for the attractions or anything. It feels like a "park" more than a "themepark"

 

[TheMaxRebo]

No offense Moliphino, but I think Hunchback is a lousy movie. It's boring, the hour and 35 minute runtime felt like an eternity. It feels more like a broadway play than a family film. Despite the fact that they tossed in the gargoyles to still appear as one. I don't think it is suitable for children or even some adults.

Frollo is too sexually obsessed with Esmeralda. The scenes where he sings of his torment would be strange even in a Tarantino musical. Plus I quickly lose my sympathy for Quasimodo, he's just a punching bag for most of it. I kinda wished Frollo just tossed him in the river at the beginning.

From most of the stage productions I have seen I think they do a better job of making Quasimodo a more sympathetic figure - but I do get what you are saying.

 

[umichigan10]

it absolutely makes sense - and Pandora I think even to more of an extreme as no signs for the attractions or anything. It feels like a "park" more than a "themepark"

That was the original goal of the park to make it feel like a jungle and just happening upon things. Except you can't make a whole park with zero signs Mr. Eisner

 

[Dfan79]

From most of the stage productions I have seen I think they do a better job of making Quasimodo a more sympathetic figure - but I do get what you are saying.

Yeah, it seems perfect for a Broadway play, but that's definitely not their demo. The director must have thought he was doing "Phantom of the Opera" or something. There are not many little children that are into Broadway. Except of course for people who are like my cousin Eric, but we knew which way he was leaning. He was always into Barbie's and Care Bears, then later on Streisand and Cher.

Love him though just the way he is.

 

[HydroGuy]

I don't see how it isn't a full day park but that's just me I guess.

Glad we agree on something! AK looks like a full day park to me too. And as long as Pandora stays popular (2 years ?) it will be easier for folks who book at least 2 AK days. One full day and another at least half day to go to Pandora again.

While EMH PM continues it is making Pandora more accessible. Once that stops being nightly and they bring AK closing time to a more normal 8 or 9 PM in non-summer time (less daylight) it will tighten things up at AK further.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't see how it isn't a full day park but that's just me I guess.

Because the numbers say it isn't/hasn't been.

It has nothing to do with personal preference. AK is in a 3 way tie (virtually) for last place in attendance and it will definitely fall behind studios in 2 years...if they cartoon Epcot up it will fall behind there as well.

That's the bottomline...and the gates still empty earlier than all the others.

 

[Dfan79]

Yeah, I definitely think Animal Kingdom is a full day park.

1. Stand in line for 3 hours for "Flight of Passage"
2. then 2 hours for "River Journey"
3. watch some Gorilla scratch himself
and 3 shows and more I didn't feel like listing. Whoopity doo.

Cherry on top, you can also watch a bunch of hippies hitting a drum unrhythmically in Pandora.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Glad we agree on something! AK looks like a full day park to me too. And as long as Pandora stays popular (2 years ?) it will be easier for folks who book at least 2 AK days. One full day and another at least half day to go to Pandora again.

While EMH PM continues it is making Pandora more accessible. Once that stops being nightly and they bring AK closing time to a more normal 8 or 9 PM in non-summer time (less daylight) it will tighten things up at AK further.

You're a Disneyland guy...so that's a cool new perspective...

But...AK from an operational standpoint is a half day park and hasn't changed since day one. Asia didn't move the needle...Everest didn't...ROL isn't gonna...and we'll see about avatar.

The jury is out on avatar...and I've been vocal about not reading too much about it...I'm trying to not preform an opinion about what was actually built...

But some of the leaky buzz I've caught honestly has been pretty mediocre. High theme, a good ride, short/not enough attractions, and an IP that isn't gonna build much loyalty.

But it is early to see the operational effect. Jury out.